REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

DOJ Ferguson report reveals extent of police state in U.S.A.

POSTED BY: OLDENGLANDDRY
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 18:19
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VIEWED: 2649
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Sunday, March 15, 2015 9:48 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


The very act of being alive is rapidly becoming a crime in order to facilitate court racketeering;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-robinson/the-shocking-finding-fro
m-the-doj-ferguson_b_6858388.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

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Sunday, March 15, 2015 1:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It's not something I've spent time looking into, trying to understand the processes at work, their structure and lack of regulating feedback.

But the question that comes to my mind is this - how does this happen in a democracy? And not just in Ferguson, but all across the country. How does the average citizen become a commodity for the government to unilaterally repress and exploit at will?

And the answer I tentatively proffer is this: government runs itself to accommodate rich people and itself. The faces change in an election, and there are differences in policy, but nothing is allowed to happen that affects the power structure very deeply.


http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9836.html
They conclude that “economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence.”




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, March 15, 2015 3:47 PM

WHOZIT


16,000 people have arrest warrants and the cops are crooked, maybe they should just bulldoze that town off the face of the earth.

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Sunday, March 15, 2015 4:08 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


You also need to read/listen to individual cases to get a sense of what life is like for African Americans in that town. This is from the Department of Justice report:

Quote:

Even relatively routine misconduct by Ferguson police officers can have significant consequences for the people whose rights are violated. For example, in the summer of 2012, a 32-year-old African-American man sat in his car cooling off after playing basketball in a Ferguson public park. An officer pulled up behind the man’s car, blocking him in, and demanded the man’s Social Security number and identification. Without any cause, the officer accused the man of being a pedophile, referring to the presence of children in the park, and ordered the man out of his car for a pat-down, although the officer had no reason to believe the man was armed. The officer also asked to search the man’s car. The man objected, citing his constitutional rights. In response, the officer arrested the man, reportedly at gunpoint, charging him with eight violations of Ferguson’s municipal code. One charge, Making a False Declaration, was for initially providing the short form of his first name (e.g., “Mike” instead of “Michael”), and an address which, although legitimate, was different from the one on his driver’s license. Another charge was for not wearing a seat belt, even though he was seated in a parked car. The officer also charged the man both with having an expired operator’s license, and with having no operator’s license in his possession. The man told us that, because of these charges, he lost his job as a contractor with the federal government that he had held for years.



http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachme
nts/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, March 15, 2015 10:23 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
But the question that comes to my mind is this - how does this happen in a democracy?



Because no one votes.

In the 2013 municipal elections, although 2/3 of Ferguson's citizens are black, only around 6% of black citizens voted. Around 17% of white citizens voted.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, March 16, 2015 2:26 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The vote only works if people actually know who's responsible for the problem, and additionally if the person - or people - are elected officials.

Assume you're a black person in Ferguson. You know the place is shitty. How do you figure out who's responsible? Where are the orders coming from? How widespread is this in the system? And if you think the police are involved, how do you 'vote' them out?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, March 16, 2015 6:28 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
But the question that comes to my mind is this - how does this happen in a democracy?



Because no one votes.

In the 2013 municipal elections, although 2/3 of Ferguson's citizens are black, only around 6% of black citizens voted. Around 17% of white citizens voted.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."



So if only 6% show up to vote in an attempt to improve their situation, how many do you think do more than just bum around all day. Not many from that neighborhood. They are broken and how to fix them is the problem.

This is the kink of situation where if you vote in a black city council they better make sure to improve things or the white community will move away and the whole area will collapse. It has happened before, like in Detroit.


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Monday, March 16, 2015 4:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"So if only 6% show up to vote in an attempt to improve their situation ..."

You left out one important word and that's 'random' - as in: "So if only 6% show up to vote in an RANDOM attempt to improve their situation ..."

FWIW when I was younger and had more energy I was on a(n unpaid) city commission to comply with a new California law. It took a LOT of time. What I found out was that unless you go to every city council meeting and the more important commission ones as well, you don't know what's going on. It's not like local government makes an effort to let people know. And unless you're directly involved behind the scenes as a commission member, you don't actually know which individual(s) is(are) directly responsible for doing what. And then, if you have a situation like the city of Bell where these things are discussed in private, you as an average citizen have no access to the information at all.

When you have people who are working and taking care of a family (and that's what ultimately led me to leave the city commission), due to the lack of time to participate they're shut out of the process, EVEN IF it takes place in public. Which, as I mentioned, doesn't always happen, especially when those involved have something to hide.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, March 17, 2015 11:59 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


I saw a Scott Adams cartoon that applies to Ferguson:
News Flash! Rich people continue stealing from the poor.
A spokesperson for the wealthy said, "The poor have a surprising amount of money to steal."
In other news, studies say dolphins understand math better than most humans. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/113782355111/robots-read-news-15-20

That last part: “dolphins understand math better than most humans” explains it all. Numbers bigger than 10 confuse them. Most people think the ideal is one person against the government. Most people are unwilling to add themselves to a group against something bigger. For most people, their family or a mob is their most organized level of group action -- as demonstrated in Ferguson. People are always waiting for a single hero to rally that mob, either US Attorney General Eric Holder or Superman or 1kiki or Mitt Romney or MLK Jr or Gandhi or Joss Whedon. But heroes retire or die. Or just get tired.

People will have an endless series of problems like Ferguson until they stop acting like it's one person or one crew in a tiny spaceship against the Universe. Did you notice in last year's Firefly comic Leaves on the Wind that Malcolm Reynolds was the “greatest military mind alive”? Worst case of hero worship I have seen by a mob of wannabe Browncoats.

That comic was a perfect example of the search for one person, Mal, to save everybody. It works a little ( once again, see Attorney General Eric Holder going to Ferguson and then having his minions issue a report ) but it's not good enough. Eric Holder would have to investigate every police department, but he is retiring. Who's the next lone hero fighting the wealthy who steal from the poor? Nobody.

The wealthy always have a natural advantage and it is not just being rich. The pile of money gives them very clear directions, as in go directly, and in secret, toward the nearest pile. And it gives them a very simple purpose, as in transfer secretively the nearest pile to their bank. Don't act like an unconscious pile of money for the wealthy to steal.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, March 18, 2015 6:37 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I have no idea about Ferguson, but I do think that people dont get how systems create poverty and disenfranchisement and power imbalance, and that changes in the system can have a profound affect on the circumstances of a place or a group of people.

Some systems compound poverty, powerlessness, hopelessness. What's even worse is when those who benefit from the system, those in positions of power, blame the people without power and who are prevented from changing their circumstances even when they wish to. I find it shocking to read these sort of views.

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Wednesday, March 18, 2015 7:06 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


It's a vicious cycle. To vote or not to vote, that is the question.

Here we have a microcosm of the overall and overriding problem in our country - the system has been built in such a way that allows money, or the greed for it, to affect the landscape when it comes to the only power that the people have - the vote. Just ask the Koch brothers and all those who fervently believe that the average Joe/Jane is defrauding the government via the vote.

The ironical part is that it is so far removed from the truth, that it's almost comical how the people have been bamboozled by the likes of the ultra-rich brothers, who have spent hundreds of millions across the country in small towns such as Ferguson, MO. Precisely to misdirect and befuddle ordinary folk to deflect attention away from the fact that they control every aspect of our lives. Deception, lies and smoke and mirrors - the manipulation of our democracy to bend to their will.

Which has led to the dysfunction in Washington. Was it perfect before, no, but now we have such chaos as to appear almost totally unrecognizable. This country, like in many marriages, functions best through compromise. No one side is going to get everything they want, but we can build things and impact on the lives of our neighbors and family across the country. We just have to not allow these greedy bastards to destroy what makes this country great.

It's US, the good folk who roll up our collective sleeves and make it work despite the odds. Fuck the Koch brothers and their ilk. This country was built from the ground up by the average Joe and Jane. My take on this whole mess is:

1- every person gets a vote.
2- those running for office gets 5 minutes to make their case on TV for free. The rest of the time they can make their case in town hall meetings.
3- No lobbyists, period.
4- Veterans should be hired to re-build our infrastructure; they should also each get a house as a gift from a grateful nation
5- Teachers should be paid a decent salary only to teach
6- Millionaires can contribute no more than a million into a large pool of money made available to ALL candidates
7- We should have a National Police, Fire, Teachers and Nurses department

More ideas another time, but something has to give or we will end up giving our blood, sweat and tears to the Company.


SGG

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Wednesday, March 18, 2015 7:21 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Are you able to see who gives funds to which politicans? I think transparency around donations is essential and I like your idea of a cap.

Re the police, would it be better state run? Less open to local corruption?

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Wednesday, March 18, 2015 9:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
It's a vicious cycle. To vote or not to vote, that is the question.

Which has led to the dysfunction in Washington.

It's US, the good folk who roll up our collective sleeves and make it work despite the odds.

More ideas another time, but something has to give or we will end up giving our blood, sweat and tears to the Company.

SGG

These problems do not need a major overhaul of government. Or even a minor one. Nor a change in campaign finance laws.

If a few dozen people in Ferguson had been collecting, and publishing, the stories about Ferguson police stealing money by writing tickets and citations, perhaps the City Manager of Ferguson would have ordered the revenue raising to stop many years ago. It would be messy, with the police denying doing what they were obviously doing, but it could have happened. Maybe. The problem is that it is unimaginable that even a dozen Americans would cooperate with one another to write those stories, unless the Koch Brothers paid them.

That's something the Kochs will not do.

Instead, from a thousand miles away, the Dept. of Justice used the police department's own records to write the stories that local people should have been writing inside Ferguson. And US Attorney General Eric Holder only got involved with these far away problems because the killing by the Ferguson police stayed in the national news for months. If the Grand Jury had not stretched out the process of deciding that no murder had been committed, then Holder probably would have ignored Ferguson forever.

Eric Holder will never again come to rescue of some other Ferguson because he is retiring. And the next election in other cities like Ferguson will probably be in November 2016. Is everybody in America so passive that local problems can't get solved until the next Eric Holder is appointed? The next President will probably be Republican and they don't appoint people like Eric Holder to be Attorney General. There will be no more free help from the Dept of Justice.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, April 21, 2015 5:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Not Ferguson, but details of widespread Home Invasions, Theft, and terrorism conducted by corrupt Union thug cops at the direction of corrupt Democrat (or Nazi) District Attorney John Chisolm and Libtard corrupt Judge Barbara Kluka, all for the heinous acts of supporting conservative causes. The home invasion victims had committed no crimes.

http://www.rightwisconsin.com/dailytakes/National-Review-Columnist-Dav
id-French-John-Doe-Raids-Were-Intimidation-Pure-and-Simple-300708801.html


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/417173/wisconsin-john-doe-laws-ty
ranny-discussed-jack-fowler


http://watchdog.org/168715/john-doe-judge-warrants/

http://townhall.com/watchdog/wisconsin/2015/04/21/national-review-john
-doe-raids-n7584


http://watchdog.org/213249/national-review-john-doe-raids/

If liberals really had the slightest interest in Justice, DA Chisholm and Judge Kluka would each be removed from office, disbarred, and thrown in prison. Plus all the corrupt cops and FBI Agents.

For those not familiar with the area, 60% of Wisconsin's population resides in the southeast corner of the state, so terrorizing Milwaukee residents and threatening them to silence has an effect statewide.
The statewide population is estimated at 5.7 million, and Milwaukee County is a little under 1 million.
The Milwaukee Police have been corrupt for more than a half century, and the DA's office has been corrupt for almost a century, owned by the mafia until the last DA left.
Yes, just like the Nazis, Milwaukee is a Socialist city, including having the most recent Socialist Mayor of any major us city - which was the end of a very long line of Socialist Mayors.

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Tuesday, April 21, 2015 6:38 PM

THGRRI



There is a awful lot of bad things going on in Ferguson, but as long as the youth in that community need one hand to hold up their pants, giving them a job is out of the question. What's my point? Same as it always is. Focusing only on the police fixes nothing now, fixes nothing later.

To many that sounds bigoted. To me it sounds like a reality that replays itself over and over again.


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Tuesday, April 21, 2015 7:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


but as long as the youth in that community need one hand to hold up their pants, giving them a job is out of the question

Racism, sexism, ageism - bigotry of all kinds is alive and well. Just look at rappy, jongsie, zitty, julie and the republican party, and their implacable hatred of one black man.

I've posted all kinds of statistics where blacks with more education get worse jobs than whites. Where females make 78% of males doing the same job. Where applications of all kinds - job applications, grant applications, loan applications - are turned down, or replaced with a worse offer, if the name looks ethnic, or female. Where 'blinded' applications - names removed, identities hidden, and results based ONLY on qualifications or performance - result in far greater numbers of females than males being hired because the previously rejected women are that much better.

Did it ever occur to you - naw, I guarantee it didn't - that if there were decent jobs out there blacks could get in a fair, unbiased competition with fair, unbiased results - that they might be motivated to get them?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, April 22, 2015 6:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not Ferguson, but details of widespread Home Invasions, Theft, and terrorism conducted by corrupt Union thug cops at the direction of corrupt Democrat (or Nazi) District Attorney John Chisolm and Libtard corrupt Judge Barbara Kluka, all for the heinous acts of supporting conservative causes. The home invasion victims had committed no crimes.

http://www.rightwisconsin.com/dailytakes/National-Review-Columnist-Dav
id-French-John-Doe-Raids-Were-Intimidation-Pure-and-Simple-300708801.html


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/417173/wisconsin-john-doe-laws-ty
ranny-discussed-jack-fowler


http://watchdog.org/168715/john-doe-judge-warrants/

http://townhall.com/watchdog/wisconsin/2015/04/21/national-review-john
-doe-raids-n7584


http://watchdog.org/213249/national-review-john-doe-raids/

If liberals really had the slightest interest in Justice, DA Chisholm and Judge Kluka would each be removed from office, disbarred, and thrown in prison. Plus all the corrupt cops and FBI Agents.

For those not familiar with the area, 60% of Wisconsin's population resides in the southeast corner of the state, so terrorizing Milwaukee residents and threatening them to silence has an effect statewide.
The statewide population is estimated at 5.7 million, and Milwaukee County is a little under 1 million.
The Milwaukee Police have been corrupt for more than a half century, and the DA's office has been corrupt for almost a century, owned by the mafia until the last DA left.
Yes, just like the Nazis, Milwaukee is a Socialist city, including having the most recent Socialist Mayor of any major us city - which was the end of a very long line of Socialist Mayors.


Did this get lost because I didn't make a separate thread for it?

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Tuesday, April 28, 2015 8:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not Ferguson, but details of widespread Home Invasions, Theft, and terrorism conducted by corrupt Union thug cops at the direction of corrupt Democrat (or Nazi) District Attorney John Chisolm and Libtard corrupt Judge Barbara Kluka, all for the heinous acts of supporting conservative causes. The home invasion victims had committed no crimes.

http://www.rightwisconsin.com/dailytakes/National-Review-Columnist-Dav
id-French-John-Doe-Raids-Were-Intimidation-Pure-and-Simple-300708801.html


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/417173/wisconsin-john-doe-laws-ty
ranny-discussed-jack-fowler


http://watchdog.org/168715/john-doe-judge-warrants/

http://townhall.com/watchdog/wisconsin/2015/04/21/national-review-john
-doe-raids-n7584


http://watchdog.org/213249/national-review-john-doe-raids/

If liberals really had the slightest interest in Justice, DA Chisholm and Judge Kluka would each be removed from office, disbarred, and thrown in prison. Plus all the corrupt cops and FBI Agents.

For those not familiar with the area, 60% of Wisconsin's population resides in the southeast corner of the state, so terrorizing Milwaukee residents and threatening them to silence has an effect statewide.
The statewide population is estimated at 5.7 million, and Milwaukee County is a little under 1 million.
The Milwaukee Police have been corrupt for more than a half century, and the DA's office has been corrupt for almost a century, owned by the mafia until the last DA left.
Yes, just like the Nazis, Milwaukee is a Socialist city, including having the most recent Socialist Mayor of any major us city - which was the end of a very long line of Socialist Mayors.


New today: Corrupt DA Chisholm is charging one of the victims for not keeping silent, in this pointless and fruitless "probe" which has lasted since ACT 10 was signed into law, which is what this witchhunt is all about.

Oh, and Chisholm says this is not a witchhunt, and anybody who points out that it is a witchhunt will be burned at the stake.

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Wednesday, May 6, 2015 8:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Menasha, WI had a shooting recently. Guy walked past many people in a Park before opening fire on a scenic bridge/trestle. Woman was shot 3 times, and saw that her husband was fatally shot, as well as her 11 year old daughter, but guides her 2 other children plus some other children off to safety, and directs her son to run for help.

Of note: Shooter had 2 handguns. Was recent Air Force Veteran. Had recently re-enlisted in the Army. Was Freshman at UW-Oshkosh in Criminal Justice Program . Was member of the Menasha Auxiliary Police force.
At the press conference, the Menasha Police Chief stated the name of the shooter once, and then stated that he would refuse to repeat the name.

So, regarding Police State, what kind of criteria is being used to select this type of person to be in the Criminal Justice program, and on the Police Auxiliary force?


http://www.travelerstoday.com/articles/20191/20150505/menasha-wisconsi
n-shooting-4-killed-1-injured-murder-suicide-one.htm


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/multiple-victims-suspect-custody-w
isconsin-shooting-n353021


http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/local/2015/05/04/shooting-victi
m-condition-theda-clark/26864887
/

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Tuesday, May 12, 2015 6:19 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Menasha, WI had a shooting recently. Guy walked past many people in a Park before opening fire on a scenic bridge/trestle. Woman was shot 3 times, and saw that her husband was fatally shot, as well as her 11 year old daughter, but guides her 2 other children plus some other children off to safety, and directs her son to run for help.

Of note: Shooter had 2 handguns. Was recent Air Force Veteran. Had recently re-enlisted in the Army. Was Freshman at UW-Oshkosh in Criminal Justice Program . Was member of the Menasha Auxiliary Police force.
At the press conference, the Menasha Police Chief stated the name of the shooter once, and then stated that he would refuse to repeat the name.

So, regarding Police State, what kind of criteria is being used to select this type of person to be in the Criminal Justice program, and on the Police Auxiliary force?


http://www.travelerstoday.com/articles/20191/20150505/menasha-wisconsi
n-shooting-4-killed-1-injured-murder-suicide-one.htm


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/multiple-victims-suspect-custody-w
isconsin-shooting-n353021


http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/local/2015/05/04/shooting-victi
m-condition-theda-clark/26864887/


That son was 7 years old. After seeing his 11 year old sister killed, found a guy walking dog for help.

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