REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ferguson

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Monday, April 6, 2015 19:18
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Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Another lost black teen tries to use violence to solve his problem, and ends up paying for it.
Did you read what Officer Wilson said? Not what you imagine he said, but what he actually said?

It's probably best that I just quote Wilson's account at length.
Quote:
I was doing the, just scrambling, trying to get his arms out of my face and him from grabbing me and everything else. He turned to his...if he's at my vehicle, he turned to his left and handed the first subject. He said, "here, take these." He was holding a pack of — several packs of cigarillos which was just, what was stolen from the Market Store was several packs of cigarillos. He said, "here, hold these" and when he did that I grabbed his right arm trying just to control something at that point. Um, as I was holding it, and he came around, he came around with his arm extended, fist made, and went like that straight at my face with his...a full swing from his left hand.
www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370766-interview-po-darren-wilson.htm
l
So Brown is punching inside the car. Wilson is scrambling to deflect the blows, to protect his face, to regain control of the situation. And then Brown stops, turns to his left, says to his friend, "Here, hold these," and hands him the cigarillos stolen from Ferguson Market. Then he turns back to Wilson and, with his left hand now freed from holding the contraband goods, throws a haymaker at Wilson.

Every bullshit detector in me went off when I read that passage. It reads like a moment meant to connect Brown to the robbery. Brown, an 18-year-old kid holding stolen goods, decides to attack a cop and, while attacking him, stops, hands his stolen goods to his friend, and then returns to the beatdown.

Wilson next recounts his thought process as he reached for a weapon. He considered using his mace, but at such close range, the mace might get in his eyes, too. He doesn't carry a taser with a fireable cartridge, but even if he did, "it probably wouldn't have hit Brown anywhere". Wilson couldn't reach his baton or his flashlight. So he went for his gun.

Brown sees him go for the gun. And he replies, according to Officer Wilson: "You're too much of a fucking pussy to shoot me."
Quote:
"You're too much of a fucking pussy to shoot me."
Again, stop for a moment and think about that. Brown is punching Wilson, sees the terrified cop reaching for his gun, and says "You're too much of a fucking pussy to shoot me." He dares him to shoot.

Officer Darren Wilson's story is unbelievable. Literally.

What part is unbelievable? So far you are recounting exactly the type of false bravado displayed by uneducated thug punks, like Micheal Brown. Just because you are a cubbyholed coddled MSM drone who has never met a thug before, does not mean they do not exist or do not behave the way your delusions imagine they should.

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Sunday, November 30, 2014 3:45 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

What part is unbelievable? So far you are recounting exactly the type of false bravado displayed by uneducated thug punks, like Micheal Brown. Just because you are a cubbyholed coddled MSM drone who has never met a thug before, does not mean they do not exist or do not behave the way your delusions imagine they should.
So, you really believe Officer Wilson is not telling a fiction? That he is in his right mind and not an easily frightened guy with a gun who killed a citizen? Maybe you should read Officer Wilson's testimony, first, before defending him? Just a suggestion?
Quote:
There was only other option he said he had. “I drew my gun…. He is standing here. I said, ‘Get back or I’m going to shoot you.’ Wilson pulled the trigger. Nothing. “It just clicked,” Wilson testified. “I pull it again. It just clicked. At this point, I’m like ‘why isn’t this working,’ this guy is going to kill me if he gets ahold of this gun.’”
www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/11/25/why-darren-wilso
n-said-he-killed-michael-brown/

Officer Darren Wilson has really got the whole Clint Eastwood cool in the face of danger thing. Not really. Officer Wilson could claim he was hallucinating with the Brown’s face that Wilson said made him “look like a demon.” That's from the testimony. Officer Wilson analyzed: www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/11/26/the-racial-bias-em
bedded-in-darren-wilsons-testimony/

I think a mental illness defense could save Officer Wilson from jail, but we will never know without a trial, will we?
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

That person tries to relieve you of your gun, as Mal would say, you have every right to end that person.

Clear enough for you?
It's clear that Officer Wilson, because it is the season, is as nutty as a fruitcake.

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Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side

Officer Darren Wilson's story is unbelievable. Literally.

Updated by Ezra Klein on November 25, 2014, 11:00 a.m. ET @ezraklein


We've finally heard from Officer Darren Wilson.

Wilson had been publicly silent since the events of August 9, when he shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. And, even as the grand jury announced its decision not to indict him, he remained silent. He had his attorneys release a statement on his behalf.

But on Monday night, St. Louis County prosecutor Robert McCulloch released the evidence given to the grand jury, including the interview police did with Wilson in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. And so we got to read, for the first time, Wilson's full, immediate account of his altercation with Brown.

And it is unbelievable.

I mean that in the literal sense of the term: "difficult or impossible to believe." But I want to be clear here. I'm not saying Wilson is lying. I'm not saying his testimony is false. I am saying that the events, as he describes them, are simply bizarre. His story is difficult to believe.

The story Wilson tells goes like this:

At about noon on August 9th, Wilson hears on the radio that there's a theft in progress at the Ferguson Market. The suspect is a black male in a black shirt.

Moments later, Wilson sees two young black men walking down the yellow stripe in the center of the street. He pulls over. "Hey guys, why don't you walk on the sidewalk?" They refuse. "We're almost at our destination," one of them replies. Wilson tries again. "But what's wrong with the sidewalk?" he asks.

And then things get weird.

Brown's response to "what's wrong with the sidewalk?", as recorded by Wilson, is "fuck what you have to say." Remember, Wilson is a uniformed police officer, in a police car, and Brown is an 18-year-old kid who just committed a robbery. And when asked to use the sidewalk, Wilson says Brown replied, "Fuck what you have to say."

Wilson backs his car up and begins to open the door. "Hey, come here," he said to the kid who just cursed at him. He says Brown replied, "What the fuck you gonna do?" And then Brown, in Wilson's telling, slams the car door closed. Wilson tries to open the door again, tells Brown to get back, and then Brown leans into the vehicle and begins punching him.

Let's take a breath and recap. Wilson sees two young black men walking in the middle of the street. He pulls over and politely asks them to use the sidewalk. They refuse. He asks again, still polite. Brown tells Wilson — again, a uniformed police officer in a police car — "fuck what you have to say." Wilson stops his car, tries to get out, and Brown slams the car door on him and then begins punching him through the open window.

What happens next is the most unbelievable moment in the narrative. And so it's probably best that I just quote Wilson's account at length on it.

I was doing the, just scrambling, trying to get his arms out of my face and him from grabbing me and everything else. He turned to his...if he's at my vehicle, he turned to his left and handed the first subject. He said, "here, take these." He was holding a pack of — several packs of cigarillos which was just, what was stolen from the Market Store was several packs of cigarillos. He said, "here, hold these" and when he did that I grabbed his right arm trying just to control something at that point. Um, as I was holding it, and he came around, he came around with his arm extended, fist made, and went like that straight at my face with his...a full swing from his left hand.

So Brown is punching inside the car. Wilson is scrambling to deflect the blows, to protect his face, to regain control of the situation. And then Brown stops, turns to his left, says to his friend, "Here, hold these," and hands him the cigarillos stolen from Ferguson Market. Then he turns back to Wilson and, with his left hand now freed from holding the contraband goods, throws a haymaker at Wilson.

Every bullshit detector in me went off when I read that passage. Which doesn't mean that it didn't happen exactly the way Wilson describes. But it is, again, hard to imagine. Brown, an 18-year-old kid holding stolen goods, decides to attack a cop and, while attacking him, stops, hands his stolen goods to his friend, and then returns to the beatdown. It reads less like something a human would do and more like a moment meant to connect Brown to the robbery.

Wilson next recounts his thought process as he reached for a weapon. He considered using his mace, but at such close range, the mace might get in his eyes, too. He doesn't carry a taser with a fireable cartridge, but even if he did, "it probably wouldn't have hit [Brown] anywhere". Wilson couldn't reach his baton or his flashlight. So he went for his gun.

Brown sees him go for the gun. And he replies: "You're too much of a fucking pussy to shoot me."

""You're too much of a fucking pussy to shoot me.""

Again, stop for a moment and think about that. Brown is punching Wilson, sees the terrified cop reaching for his gun, and says "You're too much of a fucking pussy to shoot me." He dares him to shoot.

A protestors holds up a sign saying "don't shoot". (Joe Raedle/Getty Images)

And then Brown grabs Wilson's gun, twists it, and points it at Wilson's "pelvic area". Wilson regains control of the firearm and gets off a shot, shattering the glass. Brown backs up a half step and, realizing he's unharmed, dives back into the car to attack Wilson. Wilson fires again, and then Brown takes off running. (You can see the injuries Wilson sustained from the fight in these photographs.)

Wilson exits the car to give chase. He yells at Brown to get down on the ground. Here, I'm going to go back to Wilson's words:

When he stopped, he turned, looked at me, made like a grunting noise and had the most intense, aggressive face I've ever seen on a person. When he looked at me, he then did like the hop...you know, like people do to start running. And, he started running at me. During his first stride, he took his right hand put it under his shirt into his waistband. And I ordered him to stop and get on the ground again. He didn't. I fired multiple shots. After I fired the multiple shots, I paused a second, yelled at him to get on the ground again, he was still in the same state. Still charging, hand still in his waistband, hadn't slowed down.

The stuff about Brown putting his hand in his waistband is meant to suggest that Wilson had reason to believe Brown might pull a gun. But it's strange. We know Brown didn't have a gun. And that's an odd fact to obscure while charging a police officer.

Either way, at that point, Wilson shoots again, and kills Brown.

There are inconsistencies in Wilson's story. He estimates that Brown ran 20-30 feet away from the car and then charged another 10 feet back towards Wilson. But we know Brown died 150 feet away from the car.

There are also consistencies. St Louis prosecutor Robert McCulloch said that Brown's DNA was found inside Wilson's car, suggesting there was a physical altercation inside the vehicle. We know shots were fired from inside the car. We know Brown's bullet wounds show he was only hit from the front, never from the back.

But the larger question is, in a sense, simpler: Why?

Why did Michael Brown, an 18-year-old kid headed to college, refuse to move from the middle of the street to the sidewalk? Why would he curse out a police officer? Why would he attack a police officer? Why would he dare a police officer to shoot him? Why would he charge a police officer holding a gun? Why would he put his hand in his waistband while charging, even though he was unarmed?

"None of this fits with what we know of Michael Brown"

None of this fits with what we know of Michael Brown. Brown wasn't a hardened felon. He didn't have a death wish. And while he might have been stoned, this isn't how stoned people act. The toxicology report did not indicate he was on PCP or something that would've led to suicidal aggression.

Which doesn't mean Wilson is a liar. Unbelievable things happen every day. The fact that his story raises more questions than it answers doesn't mean it isn't true.

But the point of a trial would have been to try to answer these questions. We would have either found out if everything we thought we knew about Brown was wrong, or if Wilson's story was flawed in important ways. But now we're not going to get that chance. We're just left with Wilson's unbelievable story.

More: Michael Brown spent his last day with his friend Dorian Johnson. Johnson was also there when Officer Wilson stopped Brown. Here's where Johnson's testimony corroborates, and diverges, from Wilson's account.


Michael Brown spent his last day with his friend Dorian Johnson. Here's what Johnson saw.

Earlier today, I wrote that Officer Darren Wilson's newly released account of his altercation with Michael Brown was unbelievable. Which isn't to say it was wrong. It was just hard to believe that events played out exactly as Wilson described.

But the story Wilson tells makes much more sense if you also read it alongside Dorian Johnson's testimony — and use the two accounts to balance each other out.

"Johnson presents a more nuanced picture of provocations on both sides"

Johnson, remember, was Brown's friend. He was there when Brown robbed the convenience store. He was there when Wilson first saw Brown. And he was there when Brown was shot and killed.

The story he tells confirms some key aspects in Wilson's account. But it contradicts others. Wilson presents Michael Brown as a rage-filled lunatic attempting to commit suicide by cop. Johnson presents a more nuanced picture of provocations on both sides, followed by escalation, followed by a fight in which both men grew enraged — and in which one man had a gun.

Johnson calls Brown, exclusively, "Big Mike." And he says he only knew him for a few months before the shooting. But though he liked Brown, Johnson's portrayal of him isn't flattering. In fact, his story begins on the morning of the shooting, when Big Mike commits a brazen, bizarre crime that puts Johnson in considerable danger.

Johnson says he ran into Brown on his way to buy some cigarillos from the convenience store. The two men decided to smoke weed together later, so Brown goes with Johnson to get some cigarillos of his own. Only Brown doesn't buy any cigarillos. He steals them — in fact, he steals a lot of them — and then shoves his way past the clerk.

In Johnson's telling, he's shocked. And he's terrified. Brown, he says, "is basically laughing it off, be cool, be calm…but in my head I’m like, I can’t be calm, I can’t be cool, because I know what just happened and we were on camera." Johnson has a daughter. He has a girlfriend. And now he's Brown's accomplice in a robbery — a robbery that was probably caught on a security camera. His friend has put him and his family in danger.

Or so he says. Johnson has some incentive to portray himself as an innocent bystander in this robbery. But if you do believe Johnson was innocent, what happens next is weird. Rather than abandon Brown so he's far, far away if the cops come to pick up his friend, Johnson walks home with Brown to smoke. Johnson professes to be stunned at what Brown did in the convenience store, but he doesn't act stunned, or angry, and in any case, he drops it pretty quickly.
"Get the F on the sidewalk!"

It's a Saturday morning, and the streets are empty. A few blocks from home, Brown and Johnson are walking in the middle of the road. This is when Officer Darren Wilson pulls up — and when Johnson and Wilson's accounts begin to both converge and diverge.

As Wilson tells the story, he was extremely, unfailingly polite — more befuddled than anything else by these two young black men who seem to have forgotten to use the sidewalk. "Hey guys, why don't you walk on the sidewalk," he remembers saying. That's not how Johnson tells it.

"He said 'Get the F on the sidewalk!'" Johnson tells the grand jury. Either way, on this next point, Johnson and Wilson agree. It's Johnson who replies and says they're just a minute from their homes, and they'll be off the street shortly.

This is the break point in the story. This is the moment when, even though you know how it ends, you're hoping against hope that things play out differently, because it so clearly could have gone a different way. But here is when Wilson and Johnson begin telling stories that only barely converge.

"This is the moment when, even though you know how it ends, you're hoping against hope that things play out differently"

As Wilson tells it, he then asks, "what's wrong with the sidewalk?", and Brown's response, as reported by Wilson, is "fuck what you have to say."

As Johnson tells it, Wilson never says "what's wrong with the sidewalk," and Brown never says "fuck what you have to say." Rather, both Johnson and Brown think Wilson is satisfied with Johnson's answer and is driving off.

"We continued to walk and have our conversation," Johnson tells the grand jury, "but almost a split second [later], we heard the tires screech, and the officer, he pulled back in the truck very fast at an angle [where] if we didn’t hear his tires screech, the back of his cruiser would have struck one of us."

The fight

The story Johnson tells from this point is straightforward: a cop feels disrespected by two young men, he reasserts his power, and then things spin out of control.

Wilson, having almost hit them with his truck, delivers the classic line of authority: "What did you say?" But Johnson is adamant that Brown hadn't said anything. Maybe he mouthed something silently. Maybe he stared Wilson down. Maybe he did something else that Johnson couldn't hear. But Johnson was right next to Brown, and Brown didn't say anything.

But if he didn't speak earlier, Brown starts now. Wilson had almost hit him with a truck. Brown is pissed. And so is Wilson. Brown says something and then Wilson hits him with the door of his cruiser. "He thrust his door open real hard," says Johnson. "We was so close to the door that it hit mostly Big Mike, but it hit me on my left side and closed back on him, like real fast. Just the same speed, boom, boom, that fast."

Compare this moment to Wilson's rendering:

I go to open my door, say, "Hey, come here." He said, "What the fuck you gonna do?" And he shut my door on me. The door was only open maybe a foot. I didn't have a chance to get my leg out. I shut the door and he came up and appro ached the door. I opened the door again, trying to push him back, tell him to get back. Um, he said something. I'm not sure exactly what it was and then started swinging and punching at me from outside the vehicle.

At this point, Johnson and Wilson's accounts become mirror images of each other. Wilson says Brown slammed the door into him and then reached into the car and began throwing punches. Johnson says Wilson slammed the door into Brown and then "his arm came out the window, and that’s the first initial contact that they had. The officer grabbed, he grabbed ahold of Big Mike’s shirt around the neck area."

The narratives continue to split. Wilson describes a scuffle deep inside the car, with Brown as the aggressor trying to beat the hell out of Wilson who is trapped in his cruiser. Johnson described a tug-of-war, where Brown has "one hand on top of the cruiser and the other hand more right up under the window, the side mirror. He’s trying to pull off the officer’s grip." Wilson is trying to pull Brown in, Brown is trying to escape.
Michael Brown did pass off his cigarillos

cigarillo

A burning cigarillo. Wikimedia.

But Johnson does semi-corroborate a key moment in Wilson's account. I noted this incredible passage in Wilson's telling earlier:

I was doing the, just scrambling, trying to get his arms out of my face and him from grabbing me and everything else. He turned to his...if he's at my vehicle, he turned to his left and handed the first subject. He said, "here, take these." He was holding a pack of — several packs of cigarillos which was just, what was stolen from the Market Store was several packs of cigarillos. He said, "here, hold these" and when he did that I grabbed his right arm trying just to control something at that point. Um, as I was holding it, and he came around, he came around with his arm extended, fist made, and went like that straight at my face with his...a full swing from his left hand.

The idea that Brown stopped punching Wilson just long enough to hand his contraband to his friend struck me, on first read, as beyond belief. But Johnson backs at least part of that account:

While the officer is grabbing ahold of Big Mike, he kind loses grip around his neck, that's how I knew he had a good grip. He never fully let Big Mike go, now he has a good grasp on his shirt. So now Big Mike's able to turn different angles while he is trying to pull away. And at a point he turned, now we are face-to-face, and he put his hands like, grab these, Bro. And in shock, I'm so not unconsciously, my hands open to where he could put the rillos in my hand.

So Johnson and Wilson agree: there is a moment when Brown turns to Johnson and hands over the stolen cigarillos. But Wilson tells it as Brown freeing his hands to more effectively pummel Wilson, and Johnson tells it as Brown freeing his hands to better escape Wilson.

"Johnson's whole memory of the fight is Wilson trying to pull Brown towards the vehicle"

It goes on like this. Johnson, Wilson, and the ballistics report all agree that the first shot was fired from inside the car. But where Wilson says this shot came after Brown tells him, "You're too much of a fucking pussy to shoot me," and then lunged for the weapon, Johnson reacts with total confusion when the grand jury suggests Brown was trying to get at Wilson's gun inside the car.

"In order for Big Mike to have touched the gun, it is almost like his whole top half of his body had to be inside the vehicle and that never happened," Johnson says. It's a pretty specific objection: he doesn't just say Brown never went for the gun, but that he was never so deeply embedded in the car that he could have gone for the gun. Johnson's whole memory of the fight is Wilson trying to pull Brown towards the vehicle and Brown trying to get away.
The shooting

michael brown ferguson chalk

Pastor Charles Burton has his body outlined with chalk to replicate a crime scene as he and other demonstrators protest the shooting of Michael Brown. Joshua Lott/AFP/Getty

The testimony where Johnson recounts Brown being shot dead is devastating. He says Brown had already been shot and was running away. He says Brown stopped running after the second shot. He says Brown turned and yelled, "I don't have a gun," and took a kind of half step towards Wilson. And then he began to say something else, and since this is the crucial, terrible moment in the testimony, I'll let him tell it:

The second statement he was starting to say I, you know, he couldn't get the full sentence out before the rest of the shots hit his body. And I stood and watched face-to-face as every shot was fired and as his body went down and his body never — his body kind of just went down and fell, you know, like a step, you know what I'm saying? Like a step, his body just kind of collapsed down and he just fell.

This is a sharp contrast to what Wilson says:

When [Brown] stopped, he turned, looked at me, made like a grunting noise and had the most intense, aggressive face I've ever seen on a person. When he looked at me, he then did like the hop...you know, like people do to start running. And, he started running at me. During his first stride, he took his right hand put it under his shirt into his waistband. And I ordered him to stop and get on the ground again. He didn't. I fired multiple shots. After I fired the multiple shots, I paused a second, yelled at him to get on the ground again, he was still in the same state. Still charging, hand still in his waistband, hadn't slowed down.

And then Johnson runs. He is hyperventilating, and vomiting, and running. It takes him only a minute or two to get to his apartment, he says, but "I'm still throwing up, I have been throwing up since I started running. I've been throwing up all the way along the run."
A more recognizable story

As with Wilson, it's impossible to know where Johnson is telling the truth, where he's lying, and where his memory is simply faulty — eyewitness accounts are completely unreliable even under the best of circumstances, and these were not the best of circumstances.

"Johnson's account is more recognizable"

And my hunch is Johnson is shading the truth in at least a few places — starting with the robbery, but potentially continuing up through the tussle. Johnson says he never saw Brown throw a punch but he's not totally convincing on it, and Wilson did suffer some contusions on his face (though it's not clear those injuries back Wilson's testimony, either).

But where Wilson's account presents Brown as completely irrational and borderline suicidal, Johnson's account is more recognizable. It isn't a blameless, kindly beat cop who gets set upon by a rampaging Michael Brown. And nor is it a blameless, kindly Michael Brown who gets set upon by a cold-blooded murderer with a badge.

It's a cop who feels provoked by these two young black men who won't get out of the street, and who tries to teach them a lesson, to put them in their place. His actions escalate the situation, and then the adrenaline floods, and then there's a struggle, and the situation escalates, and escalates, and escalates, and then Darren Wilson shoots Michael Brown and Michael Brown dies.

All this happened in less than two minutes. The fight happened in even less than that. And so there's also room for both accounts to be subjectively right. With the adrenaline pumping Wilson might really have grabbed Brown first, but then thought Brown was trying to grab his gun, or beat him to a pulp, even as he was really trying to get away. Brown might have sworn at the cop who almost clipped him with a truck, but after that, he might have really been trying to simply survive the altercation.

Indeed, we might never get to the truth of what happened in those two minutes on August. But the point of a trial would have been to get us closer. We would have found out if everything we thought we knew about Brown was wrong, or if Wilson's story was flawed in important ways, or if key witnesses completely broke under pressure. We would have heard real cross-examination. We would have seen the strongest case that could be mounted by both the prosecution and the defense. But now we're not going to get that chance. We're just left with these Rashomon-like testimonies, a dead 18-year-old, and a shattered family.


SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
As Wilson tells it, he then asks, "what's wrong with the sidewalk?", and Brown's response, as reported by Wilson, is "fuck what you have to say."

As Johnson tells it, Wilson never says "what's wrong with the sidewalk," and Brown never says "fuck what you have to say." Rather, both Johnson and Brown think Wilson is satisfied with Johnson's answer and is driving off.



Sounds pretty much as expected. Expected for a 18 yr old thug who had just shoved a store clerk out of the way while committing a robbery.

Are you so utterly naive and blind to the world that you can't comprehend how some folks actually act ?

I mean, it would explain much.

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Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:59 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Are your police even trained? seem like a bunch of gun toting idiots to me. No wonder you want to keep your guns.

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Thursday, December 4, 2014 5:46 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


That was a very good analysis and essay Kiki, but, as I read Johnson's account in the transcripts, I understood that he, Johnson, was walking in front of Brown. Which would put him to Brown's immediate right.

In your re-telling of Wilson's account, he puts Brown in front of Dorian and handing the 'rillos to him to Brown's left. Did I get that wrong somehow? If not, then that would be another inconsistency, and this case is full of those.

I got the same impression, from Johnson's testimony, that he wasn't being totally truthful about his involvement with the shoplifting of the 'rillos.

I came to find out that Wilson left the scene by himself to return to the precinct and: wash the blood from his hands (also by himself), and that he "bagged" his own gun as evidence, again by himself. This according to Lawrence O'Donnell of MSNBC (last week sometime).

Just last night, I was watching O'Donnell again and he dissected a portion of the transcripts regarding Witness #10, which McCulloch based his now infamous press conference revealing the Grand Jury non indictment. Apparently this Witness #10 was key to the Grand Jury's decision. He proceeded to reveal that Witness #10 gave a statement to the cops that he saw Brown lunge or charge at Wilson right before the fatal shooting. When asked what distance he witnessed this from he answered "about 100 yards."

Wait, it gets better! He testified to the Grand Jury that he was about 50 yards away - he cut in half the distance he claimed he witnessed the shooting. Hmmmm, mighty interesting!. He even changed another statement he made to police and then the Grand Jury - this time about where Brown and Dorian were walking. He claimed that they were on the sidewalk on his side of the street, when everybody knows that they were walking in the middle of the street.

He also described Brown's aggressive move toward Wilson as a "full charge." Perhaps it's better if you watch the video yourself on MSNBC or I will try and post it later today. O'Donnell did not mince words, he let the Washington Post website and the contributing writer, a law professor, have both barrels.


SGG

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Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Multiple witnesses saw Brown charge Wilson.

Not just #10.

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Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Multiple witnesses saw Brown charge Wilson.

Not just #10.

Shirley, all of those witnesses cannot be trusted. Because the physical evidence proves that Brown charged Wilson, it must be ignored as well as all the honest witnesses who said the same. We must only listen to the lying criminal witnesses who contradict all evidence and facts.

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Friday, December 5, 2014 12:26 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


You know, it's funny how some witnesses are trusted while others, not so much.
And exactly what physical evidence, pray tell, are you referring to? What evidence did Wilson present to convince the Grand Jury to acquit, er, to vote no indictment.

Did you know that Wilson returned to the precinct and cleaned up before anyone could test him for blood splatter evidence. I have to review the other transcripts, but I have heard that the DA's assistant also gave an outdated law, on purpose, that was ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS 29 years ago (1985) regarding shooting a fleeing suspect. The Missouri law allowed shooting a fleeing suspect regardless but it was ruled unconstitutional.

Here's the problem, any law student knows that you check the latest ruling on the law in question and here you have a seasoned ADA submitting an outdated law - that is unforgivable and could cost the state of Missouri big time. She later submitted the correction, after the fact (meaning after Wilson testified) which proved to confuse the grand jurors. No explanation was given by the ADA. Plus it could backfire if a special prosecutor gets a hold of the transcripts and decides that there was a mistrial, oops, a false grand jury decision based on that deliberate misdirection.

Does it matter? Yes, like I said a good attorney will tear them a new one because it was misleading. By the way, the DA (McCulloch) was asked if this was the first time this ever happened, and, if not, how many times before. He was non-committal and answered "Not at this time."

The state AG said that the Missouri law must be re-written by state legislators. Wrong again. There's no need since the SCOTUS ruling supercedes the state law and is the law of the land. This should have been explained by the ADA to the grand jury who did have questions about it. They were left to fend for themselves. How's that for evidence?

Shirley it makes a whole lot of sense for a guy to run for his life, away from a killer cop, then change his mind, this after being hit 4 times, and say "Hmmm, let me charge at him, maybe he'll stop shooting if I charge."

Let me ask this: What happened to the DNA test of Wilson's gun to determine if Brown's DNA was found on his gun? Anyone know?


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Multiple witnesses saw Brown charge Wilson.

Not just #10.

Shirley, all of those witnesses cannot be trusted. Because the physical evidence proves that Brown charged Wilson, it must be ignored as well as all the honest witnesses who said the same. We must only listen to the lying criminal witnesses who contradict all evidence and facts.

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Friday, December 5, 2014 12:44 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Did you not hear McCulloch mention Witness #10? Did you not hear McCulloch say that several witnesses told conflicting testimony and that many lied or changed their story. He even blamed the media? Fuck, talk about grasping at straws, that was ridiculous. Just think about his statement, then think about his actions.........he's holding a press conference for crying out loud..........ironical, isn't it?

Multiple witnesses testified, which were telling the truth? I know, based upon the physical evidence........yadda, yadda. Seriously, how does he know who was telling the truth? Was it Witness 10 who changed his story from the one he told the police 2 days after the shooting, from the one he told the grand jury 6 weeks later.

There's a big difference between 100 yards and 50 yards away. Can you tell the difference between a sidewalk and a street?


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Multiple witnesses saw Brown charge Wilson.

Not just #10.

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Friday, December 5, 2014 12:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


SGG - physical evidence ( sciency stuff ) tends to sift out liars from the honest witnesses .

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Friday, December 5, 2014 4:19 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Multiple witnesses saw Brown charge Wilson.

Not just #10.

Did you not hear McCulloch say that several witnesses told conflicting testimony and that many lied or changed their story.

Seriously, how does he know who was telling the truth?

SGG

He explained very clearly how they know who was lying, and then changed their story, and also who were telling the truth and magically, mysteriously, just happened to keep their "story" the same. You should re-watch his "press conference" until you understand - I have little hope of explaining most of it better than he, so maybe you just don't want to understand - and we can all agree on that, and move past you.


Although RapKnight already posted this, he did very pointedly expose your downfall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
SGG - physical evidence ( sciency stuff ) tends to sift out liars from the honest witnesses .

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Monday, December 8, 2014 5:56 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Speaking of physical evidence. Does anyone know what ever happened to the DNA test of Wilson's gun?

Multiple witnesses is right. There are ones that saw him "surrender" including his "friend" Dorian; and there are those that saw him "charge."
Naturally you guys believe those that say they saw him charge, and obviously that would justify Wilson "defending" himself chasing after Brown fearing for his life, and shooting at him 12 times.

Do you mean that physical evidence?

1. He attacked me, so I shot at him twice
2. He ran away, so naturally I feared he would kill me
3. After I hit him 4 times, he became a demon and charged at me
4. I had to put him down like the dirty dog that he is

This coming from a cop who is 6' 4" and 220 lbs. I felt like a 5-year-old.

Do you mean that physical evidence?


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Multiple witnesses saw Brown charge Wilson.

Not just #10.

Did you not hear McCulloch say that several witnesses told conflicting testimony and that many lied or changed their story.

Seriously, how does he know who was telling the truth?

SGG

He explained very clearly how they know who was lying, and then changed their story, and also who were telling the truth and magically, mysteriously, just happened to keep their "story" the same. You should re-watch his "press conference" until you understand - I have little hope of explaining most of it better than he, so maybe you just don't want to understand - and we can all agree on that, and move past you.


Although RapKnight already posted this, he did very pointedly expose your downfall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
SGG - physical evidence ( sciency stuff ) tends to sift out liars from the honest witnesses .

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Monday, December 8, 2014 6:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

1. He attacked me, so I shot at him twice
2. He ran away, so naturally I feared he would kill me


No, he chased him BECAUSE that's what cops do to perps who try to attack a cop. You don't just allow a violent thug to run away.

Quote:



3. After I hit him 4 times, he became a demon and charged at me
4. I had to put him down like the dirty dog that he is



Because he can't be sure if Brown was hit or not, and just assuming he was isn't part of the training a cop receives. Having 70+ lbs on a cop very well could have ended with the cop on the ground, losing his gun, then his life.

Better the perp comply than the cop have to shoot, but if the perp wants to duke it out... sorry, cop's got a gun. Perp loses.

Quote:


This coming from a cop who is 6' 4" and 220 lbs. I felt like a 5-year-old.

Do you mean that physical evidence?


SGG


Pretty much. Yes. Only, you're ignoring the significance of it all, likely on purpose, so as to make a point which has no merit.

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Monday, December 8, 2014 1:23 PM

JONGSSTRAW


The Grand Jury said no charges. Case closed.

It's hi-larious to see the libtards continue to agonize over that reality.


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Monday, December 8, 2014 5:08 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Funny how you guys continue to bring that up. He did get special treatment and was released into the wild. No doubts about that.

You Rightards get to party............I really don't give a shit what the Grand Jury decided. I couldn't care less about Wilson. But I have the right to my beliefs and thoughts, just like you guys. This is, after all, still America.


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The Grand Jury said no charges. Case closed.

It's hi-larious to see the libtards continue to agonize over that reality.


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Monday, December 8, 2014 5:29 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

I really don't give a shit what the Grand Jury decided.

Of course not.

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Monday, December 8, 2014 5:29 PM

JONGSSTRAW




Looters should be shot.

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Tuesday, December 9, 2014 3:18 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Like I said, this is still America............."Freedom is just another word for Nothing left to lose."


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

I really don't give a shit what the Grand Jury decided.

Of course not.

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Tuesday, December 9, 2014 3:19 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


That's right..........and the greedy should be hung!


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:


Looters should be shot.

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Tuesday, December 9, 2014 11:33 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The Grand Jury said no charges. Case closed.

It's hi-larious to see the libtards continue to agonize over that reality.



And how many times did you wingnut fuckwits ignore the findings on Benghazi? Seven, was it?


The left disagrees with the Grand Jury's finding, but we don't deny the fact that it happened. That's the right's tactic.


“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Tuesday, December 9, 2014 11:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


SGG - is the owner of the ( now closed - forever ) store " greedy "? Did he deserve to have his store looted because Brown stole & assaulted a clerk ?

Your finger of accusation is pointing in the exact wrong direction.


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Tuesday, December 9, 2014 11:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

The left disagrees with the Grand Jury's finding, but we don't deny the fact that it happened. That's the right's tactic.


Hands up, don't shoot!

The left promotes the lie as an excuse to riot, loot, shut down freeways...

Storybook - nothing you say is real.

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Saturday, December 20, 2014 4:20 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Truthfully, no.

But remember, we are talking about frustration with the Criminal Justice System, primarily controlled by those in power. If you feel threatened by the response, imagine, that's just one tenth of one percent of what those without power feel.

Justice is not very hard to obtain. All we need is the truth, and it seems that McCulloch has spoken to that very cry out for justice. He gave us his rendition of the truth and so here we are. He obviously doesn't give a shit about truth, justice and the American way.

Time will tell the tale, time and a proper investigation. It seems the FBI submitted their interview with witnesses to the DA's office prior to testimony given to the grand jury.

We shall see.................


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
SGG - is the owner of the ( now closed - forever ) store " greedy "? Did he deserve to have his store looted because Brown stole & assaulted a clerk ?

Your finger of accusation is pointing in the exact wrong direction.


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Tuesday, December 30, 2014 6:53 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Here's another answer:



or maybe this:




Silence = Death


SGG

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Tuesday, December 30, 2014 7:13 PM

JONGSSTRAW


"O che sciagura d'essere senza coglioni!"

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Friday, April 3, 2015 6:47 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Ferguson, Missouri is gearing up for a battle royal with the citizens of Ferguson.

That's a strong message that the Grand Jury will not be bringing charges against Wilson. This is definitely a test case.

If that's the case, then the citizens of Ferguson were right all along about the DA's lack of conviction toward a fair and impartial pursuit of the truth. I don't want to hear how Brown went for his gun (the Zimmerman defense, a typical excuse to kill with impunity) because 10 separate witnesses testified that he was in the surrender position, and yet Wilson disregarded his plea for life.

May God Bless the town of Ferguson


SGG


If you do not wish to hear how the physical evidence backs the officers statement, and shows many of the so called witnesses statements to be false, and if you whish to show Brown did not go for the officers gun, then explain away how Browns blood shows up on the officer and within the car. Explain away how gun power on Browns hand shows a very close proximity between Browns hand and the gun when fired.

If you believe for one minute that the officer tried to pull Brown, a 6'4" 300 pound man into the police car through the car window placing Brown on top of himself, then you are a very stupid individual. Case closed, once you go for a cops gun while assaulting him as he is sitting in his car, you are under no circumstances allowed to leave the scene. And if you are that big, turn and come back at the officer, boom, your dead.

As far as the Zimmerman case, it has been based upon the fact that white bigots are responsible for him being found innocent. Zimmerman was not white. Let me remind you again, Zimmerman was Hispanic not white, so if the evidence proved him guilty then the same so called white bigots would have convicted him and gotten a two for one deal. To suggest the jury was bigoted, yet let a Hispanic man go free because why, they hate blacks and not Hispanics; is moronic.

Some people here always cry wolf. These people have no credibility. Funny how with them the cop is always guilty and solid evidence when presented goes unheeded. In this case it appears the officers story is closer to the truth than what is clamed by many witnesses. Get over it.

I pointed to the officers innocence when this first happened because of the claim that the officer pulled Brown into the car the way he did; no way. I tried to suggest there are problems that needed addressing(such as why this keeps happening and what can be done to change things) and to focusing on that, to no avail. All you want to do is the white black hate thing. You will be having the same discussion to this type of incident whenever it occurs. Have at it, but remember, you and the way you chose to see things are part of the problem.







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Friday, April 3, 2015 6:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Truthfully, no.

But remember, we are talking about frustration with the Criminal Justice System, primarily controlled by those in power. If you feel threatened by the response, imagine, that's just one tenth of one percent of what those without power feel.


I have no idea what you're even trying to say here.

Quote:


Justice is not very hard to obtain. All we need is the truth, and it seems that McCulloch has spoken to that very cry out for justice. He gave us his rendition of the truth and so here we are. He obviously doesn't give a shit about truth, justice and the American way.


Again, you've lost me.

Quote:


Time will tell the tale, time and a proper investigation. It seems the FBI submitted their interview with witnesses to the DA's office prior to testimony given to the grand jury.

We shall see.................


SGG


?

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Friday, April 3, 2015 7:41 PM

THGRRI


The post you are responding to is very old Rappy



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Monday, April 6, 2015 7:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
The post you are responding to is very old Rappy

So your current observation is that SGG's bullshit has an expiration date? It cannot hold up to the passage of time? His rationalizations and fabrications have only time-limited effect to spin the "facts" into alignment with the Talking Point of his choice?

Well, you may have stumbled into your most pertinent and accurate post.

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