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Judge Temporarily Bars Navy Use of Sonar
Jul 03 2:59 PM US/Eastern
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LOS ANGELES


A federal judge issued a temporary restraining order Monday barring the Navy from using a type of sonar, allegedly harmful to marine mammals, during a Pacific warfare exercise scheduled to begin this week.

The order comes three days after the Navy obtained a six-month national defense exemption from the Defense Department allowing it to use "mid-frequency active sonar."

Environmental groups had sued to stop the sonar use during the exercises off Hawaii. The sonar portion of the war games was set to start Thursday.

U.S. District Judge Florence-Marie Cooper wrote in her order that the plaintiffs "have shown a possibility that RIMPAC 2006 will kill, injure, and disturb many marine species, including marine mammals, in waters surrounding the Hawaiian Islands."

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Cooper, Florence-Marie
Born 1940 in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Federal Judicial Service:
U. S. District Court, Central District of California
Nominated by William J. Clinton on July 14, 1999, to a seat vacated by Linda H. McLaughlin; Confirmed by the Senate on November 10, 1999, and received commission on November 15, 1999.

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Originally posted by Hero:
Now its perfectly safe for North Korea to sail its Chinese made, brand new, diesel-electric subs right up to our carriers and blow them out of the water ending American naval control of the Pacific Ocean.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Yes Hero, there there, anyone who doesn't think like you deserves to die because they're evil, you are on a directly line from god, have a lolly and please don't drible on the furniture.

If you weren't a conservative you'd be able to do something about it yourself, but you are a conservative so you'll need someone else to do the hard and dirty work for you.

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Originally posted by Causal:


I just find the whole liberal/conservative thing ridiculous.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Causal:


I just find the whole liberal/conservative thing ridiculous.

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Me too.

But they're such convienient terms that there's no way to stop their usage.


Whatch gonna do Chrisisall

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Thats is why I like the Canadian parliment vs the GOP/DNC system down south... in a minority government situation you have to build a consensus to achieve your goals ... this usually drops the nutjobs out of the picture and you find yourself travelling down the middle.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Pure Capitalism 'fails' just as surely as pure socialism or communism.

It's just Capitalism does it more insidiously, more silently. Communism quickly degrades into a totalitarian dictatorship, Capitilism slowly degrades into corporate Oligarchy.

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But a thread like this (it's all their fault!) is uniquely conservative. Where ideology fails for the far right conservative, insults and blaming the other side for you short commings is sure to work.

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Originally posted by Causal:
I must respectfully disagree on this point. There's been plenty of finger pointing by liberals over the aftermath of hurricane Katrina and the handling of the Iraq war. There's been plenty of insults and blaming from both sides of the political spectrum. Finger pointing and blame shifting aren't conservative or liberal traits, they're human traits, and both sides engage in them frequently, and with gusto.

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Originally posted by Hero:
Now its perfectly safe for North Korea to sail its Chinese made, brand new, diesel-electric subs right up to our carriers and blow them out of the water ending American naval control of the Pacific Ocean. Perhaps the Chinese could sail one of their own right into and back out of Pearl Harbor. We wouldn't even know until it was too late. Good job liberals. Making the world safe for the enemies of freedom everwhere.

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Judge Temporarily Bars Navy Use of Sonar
Jul 03 2:59 PM US/Eastern
Email this story

LOS ANGELES


A federal judge issued a temporary restraining order Monday barring the Navy from using a type of sonar, allegedly harmful to marine mammals, during a Pacific warfare exercise scheduled to begin this week.

The order comes three days after the Navy obtained a six-month national defense exemption from the Defense Department allowing it to use "mid-frequency active sonar."

Environmental groups had sued to stop the sonar use during the exercises off Hawaii. The sonar portion of the war games was set to start Thursday.

U.S. District Judge Florence-Marie Cooper wrote in her order that the plaintiffs "have shown a possibility that RIMPAC 2006 will kill, injure, and disturb many marine species, including marine mammals, in waters surrounding the Hawaiian Islands."

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To be fair I don't really know if she's liberal. My evidence is suspect. First of all its a female federal judge in California who hyphens her name. Or there is this:

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Cooper, Florence-Marie
Born 1940 in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Federal Judicial Service:
U. S. District Court, Central District of California
Nominated by William J. Clinton on July 14, 1999, to a seat vacated by Linda H. McLaughlin; Confirmed by the Senate on November 10, 1999, and received commission on November 15, 1999.

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Not content with American liberals, he imports one from Canada. Wonder if she's legal...

H

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Originally posted by citizen:
Yeah both Liberals and Conservatives finger point, but in political debate I more often see Conservatives saying "Liberals are evil/cowards/immoral/smell of cheese" than anything similar coming from Liberals.

For instance right here, Hero the conservative starts yet another "Liberals are all cowards who want to destroy the US thread". Neglecting to mention that it is Conservatives sitting at home sending other peoples kids to war, and as many of those kids are Liberals as they are Conservative, perhaps more so.

I fail to see the bravery in sending another persons kid to die because you are not prepared to send yourself or your family in to the firing line. I'm sick of the hypocracy from a man who thinks sitting at home watching other people fight to make you feel safe on TV is brave.

I also fairly solidly put it as extreme conservatives. People like Hero who dreams of the day Liberals will all be in camps.

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Originally posted by SergeantX:
It's pretty clear traditional 'Liberals' and 'Conservatives' can't see past the ends of their power-mongering noses.

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I propose we revoke the voting rights of everyone stupid enough to vote for Republicans or Democrats in the last election. Start fresh.

SergeantX

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Originally posted by citizen:
As for the last part, maybe you could point me to the "Conservatives are hypocritical war mongers" thread, because in the last two weeks there have been two "Liberals are cowards" threads...

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Originally posted by Causal:

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Originally posted by citizen:
As for the last part, maybe you could point me to the "Conservatives are hypocritical war mongers" thread, because in the last two weeks there have been two "Liberals are cowards" threads...

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The issue is bigger than specific threads on this board. For a prime example of liberal finger-pointing and insult-slinging--in complete isolation from actual arguments or facts--look no further than Kanye West's declaration that George Bush doesn't care about black people.

My point is two-fold: 1) both conservatives and liberals engage in this type of behavior (call it X behavior, for simplicity; and 2) claiming that the conservatives engage in more X behavior than liberals is itself X behavior.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Originally posted by Casual:
The issue is bigger than specific threads on this board. For a prime example of liberal finger-pointing and insult-slinging--in complete isolation from actual arguments or facts--look no further than Kanye West's declaration that George Bush doesn't care about black people.

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Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Because, apparently, this particular tool is the ONLY way we have of figuring out what is going on under the sea.

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Originally posted by citizen:
I see, we have Liberals on this board and Conservatives and the fact that the way they conduct themselves here is more in line with my predicate is inadmissible?

There's a big difference to saying George Bush doesn't care about black people and saying all Liberals are X, a huge difference, the two aren't even comparable.

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Originally posted by Hero:
Now its perfectly safe for North Korea to sail its Chinese made, brand new, diesel-electric subs right up to our carriers and blow them out of the water ending American naval control of the Pacific Ocean. Perhaps the Chinese could sail one of their own right into and back out of Pearl Harbor. We wouldn't even know until it was too late. Good job liberals. Making the world safe for the enemies of freedom everwhere.

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Judge Temporarily Bars Navy Use of Sonar
Jul 03 2:59 PM US/Eastern
Email this story

LOS ANGELES


A federal judge issued a temporary restraining order Monday barring the Navy from using a type of sonar, allegedly harmful to marine mammals, during a Pacific warfare exercise scheduled to begin this week.

The order comes three days after the Navy obtained a six-month national defense exemption from the Defense Department allowing it to use "mid-frequency active sonar."

Environmental groups had sued to stop the sonar use during the exercises off Hawaii. The sonar portion of the war games was set to start Thursday.

U.S. District Judge Florence-Marie Cooper wrote in her order that the plaintiffs "have shown a possibility that RIMPAC 2006 will kill, injure, and disturb many marine species, including marine mammals, in waters surrounding the Hawaiian Islands."

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To be fair I don't really know if she's liberal. My evidence is suspect. First of all its a female federal judge in California who hyphens her name. Or there is this:

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Cooper, Florence-Marie
Born 1940 in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Federal Judicial Service:
U. S. District Court, Central District of California
Nominated by William J. Clinton on July 14, 1999, to a seat vacated by Linda H. McLaughlin; Confirmed by the Senate on November 10, 1999, and received commission on November 15, 1999.

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Not content with American liberals, he imports one from Canada. Wonder if she's legal...

H

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To be fair I don't really know if she's liberal. My evidence is suspect. First of all its a female federal judge in California who hyphens her name.

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Not content with American liberals, he imports one from Canada. Wonder if she's legal...

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Originally posted by Causal:
But that's just my point! I don't agree that either side is better or worse; they both engage in the behavior equally. It's just difficult to perceive that when one has an ideological commitment to a particular side, because from that ideological point of view, X-Behavior is justified (irrespective of which side it happens to be).

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Just wanted to say, since I haven't heard back from my last post, that it's always a pleasure going 'round an issue with you. It's clear that we don't agree (and to be honest, we rarely do), but regardless, I always enjoy our conversations because you seem to be committed to level-headed dialogue (as opposed to mere demagoguery). You are an officer and a gentleman, sir, and my hat's off to you.

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Okay, let's start from the top. First off, I don't think one of North Korea's diesel-electric subs is going to "sneak" into anywhere. Diesel subs are about as quiet as diesel trucks - with the added bonus of sound travelling much further and more effectively through water than it does through air!

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Secondly, we're not talking about completely disabling ALL subs, or ALL types of sonar equipment - we're talking specifically about one type of sonar

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So... by your reckoning, anyone who "hyphens" ("hyphenates" is the word you were looking for, I believe) her name is suspected of being a liberal. Even if she hyphenates her first name. And, of course, being a female and from California, that just nails the coffin lid shut. She *must* be a liberal!

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Originally posted by Hero:

To be fair I don't really know if she's liberal. My evidence is suspect. First of all its a female federal judge in California who hyphens her name.

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Originally posted by Hero:


That she's Canadian boggles the mind, how does a Canadian become an American judge and how can someone who's not an American act as a check upon our national defense? Liberalism is the answer.

H

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Since when did someone who is'nt British have the right to dictate the foriegn policy of The United Kingdom?
Yet G.W.B. does it continously.

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Originally posted by RocketJock:

Bye the bye, before someone smears me as a liberal, I'm neither liberal nor conservative. I'm a member of the radical middle, e.g. Libertarian.

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That she's Canadian boggles the mind, how does a Canadian become an American judge and how can someone who's not an American act as a check upon our national defense? Liberalism is the answer.

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Since when did someone who is'nt British have the right to dictate the foriegn policy of The United Kingdom?
Yet G.W.B. does it continously.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

You seem to have an exceptionally narrow view of who is and isn't an American. By your reckoning, we can pretty much throw out the entire American system of government, because none of the Founding Fathers were legitimately "American" citizens. They were all born British subjects.

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I'm sure if nations like Britain, France, Spain, Canada, Japan, Korea, China, Indonesia, Panama, Italy and others

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Originally posted by Hero:


I have realized that after watching North Korea screw itself over today, that foriegn policy is often dictated by non-Americans, as in sometimes actions are forced upon us by circumstance. We try to shape the circumstances but its not always successful. For example, I believe everyone would like to avoid war (or even a small military confrontation) with North Korea...but it may be out of our hands.

H

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Guess we better have a good look into the legal status of Antonin Scalia - he sounds like he'd be an illegal!

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but when you try to damn all "liberals" by painting them with such a broad brush, it just gets under my skin.

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Originally posted by Hero:

The founding fathers were born British citizens, but died Americans.

H

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(primarily the left since the left enjoys barking insults at the right as I have seen on television, contrary to what some may believe)

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nice rant by the way, does it really work for you in the courtroom ?

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Originally posted by Chokai:
North Korean subs are so crappy that this technology is totally unecessary. If you wanna get your conservative gander up realize that this is a HUGE waste of your tax dollars. Or for that matter the US F22 program on which we have spent more than $100B when there is still no plane in the world that can even touch the F-15E with AAMRAM. Even Senior US military officers have questioned the need for these programs. They would rather pay thier soldiers a better wage and have money to buy them body armor for deployment to Iraq. Rather than more needless wiz-bang weapons systems.

To give you a level of the technological disparity between the US and Korea and even China for that matter. In 1997 Clinton parked a US Carrier Battle group a mere 200 miles off the Chinese and Korean coasts. The Chinese couldn't find it.

North Korean submarines are of the Whiskey/Romeo class and are a derivitive of a design originally developed by the germans during World War II.

The DPRK Navy does not have fuel to put to sea, much less train. They cannot manufacture or obtain spare parts for thier boats, they are rusting hulking pieces of crap (literally).

The Chinese have not sold any new subs of note to the Koreans as of this last months review of world wide submarine forces posted in the United States Naval Institutes proceedings journal (which is a great magazine btw, I recommend you subscribe).

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Originally posted by rue:
Zero said he 'prosecuted' a character defamation case. I realize you are not US, but to your knowledge, is this a criminal or civil procedure ?

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Originally posted by rue:
I heard something on the radio alluding that the Missile Defense System was shown to be a fraud (during this latest tiff with N Korea).

Anyone know what that was about?

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