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Originally posted by Righteous9:

Jong ---
do you really think we don't pay for those things anyway? YOu think that when neighborhoods fester...when people produce children that are cared for poorly, that the rest of us hardworking americans don't suffer for it?

Who pays for prisons? who suffers at the hands of violent crime? Who's equity suffers because they are too close to a bad neighborhood? You act like you can turn away from these things and let them sort themselves out, and all of us "upstanding," "hard-working" americans will be just fine.

Whether you want us to be or not, we're all in the same boat. If we don't try to reverse trends in those areas, by trying to provide the basic neccessities for these kids so that they have slightly better opportunity, do you think things are actually going to get better?

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As to your point about what our government is going to do wiht the money...now that is a legitimate question.

It's becoming a popular joke to say that Republicans tell you not to trust your government, and then they get into office and prove it to you. From where I"m sitting Bush nearly convinced me that maybe the government having control of my money isn't such a good idea...

until I came back to one fundamental aspect of our government. That is that we are it. We still have control, if we take it, over who we elect to office, and in that way, we have oversight over how they use our money, if we choose to use it.

Personally, I think social programs are a good idea...I think we're paying for all manner of societal ills that you think we could be ignoring , and I'd rather pay for it in a way that is preventative, than be buying some really overpriced band-aids.

I disagree somewhat about corporate taxes filtering down to the consumer, the same with the gas tax for that matter. The reality is a company will charge what they think they can get. If the magic number isn't 50 cents higher for gas...then they will lower their profit margin per gallon.

If people aren't buying their g.i.joe for 15 bucks, they won't continue to sell it for that much. I'm really not convinced that the taxes are fronted by the consumer. If somebody can show me otherwise, I'm happy to learn from it.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Flet..instead of being an obtuse twit here, why don't you actually read my first post and address the REAL realities of the Dem's insane tax hikes; tax hikes that will devastate the middle class, and turn our country into one fucked-up Euro-style nanny-state. I believe I gave at least 5 or 6 of their agenda items.

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
And the current bunch are fiscally responsable how exactly?

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
What style is that?

have you been paying attention to the U.S. economy, the strength of the dollar, and the recent cries of a possible recession?

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Originally posted by Fletch2:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Flet..instead of being an obtuse twit here, why don't you actually read my first post and address the REAL realities of the Dem's insane tax hikes; tax hikes that will devastate the middle class, and turn our country into one fucked-up Euro-style nanny-state. I believe I gave at least 5 or 6 of their agenda items.

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No I read it. However I don't believe it. Election cycle dude, right now the Reps are out telling the fundies that they will revoke Roe v Wade, and telling the fiscal conservatives they will cut the budget. The Dems are out promising pie to everyone that will listen and you know what? After the election it will be business as usual and nothing will really change.

You still need to work on the TGVs.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Well you could be right, and I hope you are right. Financial pundits on the financial cable shows are worried big time.

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Well you could be right, and I hope you are right. Financial pundits on the financial cable shows are worried big time

They also earn more money in an afternoon than an average stiff sees in a year. Their interests are not nescessarily your interests and I'm sure it's in their interest to keep the folks they've already bought off rather than bribing a new set next year,

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Global warming is a flat out lie, and yet this clown would fleece our wallets to take from us to grow the power of the Fed Gov't.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Well you could be right, and I hope you are right. Financial pundits on the financial cable shows are worried big time

They also earn more money in an afternoon than an average stiff sees in a year. Their interests are not nescessarily your interests and I'm sure it's in their interest to keep the folks they've already bought off rather than bribing a new set next year,

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You're being obtuse and evasive aqain. I'll just ask you some straight questions :
1) Do you want to take home less money every week from your paycheck?

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C'mon...you OWE me honest answers to these questions...and then honestly ask yourself if you still want Democrats elected to do all this with NO Republican opposition? Thank You

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Once again the Democrats are ready to destroy the economy, and take hard-earned money out of your pocket......
Rep. Dingle of Michigan and Ways & Means Dems want to add $ .50 tax hike on gasoline to combat "global warming".

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
well,

the democrats hardly control congress now.

That's the most I'm going to do to defend them though.

They are truly doing nearly jack and shit. They've put 60 votes as the requirement to pass any bill. They aren't even forcing the Republicans to go on record with a fillibuster...

and then they want to tell us that the Republicans are at fault. That's bullshit.

And how the hell do republican bills keep getting to the floor? When Republicans were in charage democrats almost got nothing to the floor. The only thing congress has done is to pass a bullshit bill condmening an ad.

way to go, assholes

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
As previously mentioned, I'm not a big fan of pork, however one thing it does do is allow transfer of funds between regions, which is important if you are a large diverse economy. Part of the problem the Euro has is that there is no transfers, which means if you set things like interest rates and exchange rates centrally what is good for one part of the economy (or one region) can be bad for the others. Without some compensations somewhere you can create havok or accidentally crush growth in some places while trying to promote growth in others.

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