RE: RE: by Fremdfirma

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

RE: RE:

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Monday, April 7, 2008 17:24
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Friday, April 4, 2008 3:59 AM

This is just plain over the top.

California: Police Raid Car Enthusiast Gathering, Generate Revenue
http://thenewspaper.com/news/23/2302.asp

No warrants, no solid probable cause, absolute violation of privacy and fourth amendment rights.

A bogus fishing expedition on car enthusiasts, for money, legalised extortion and theft.

Police issued a total of forty-eight tickets for "engine modifications" with police accusing the owners of the parked vehicles of being street racers. Another fifty tickets were issued for paperwork violations, dark window tinting and lack of a front license plate. The most revenue, however, will be generated from the fees imposed on twenty vehicles that were confiscated. Despite labeling the parking lot raid as taking place at a "street racing venue," Riverside Police offered no evidence that any street racing actually took place

Ok, look, Michigan does not USE front license plates, we don't even have them - some states don't, and YES, officers from other states, especially CA for whatever reason *WILL* ticket your Michigan vehicle for this - how's that for asinine ?

And confiscation, this is becoming a big, big problem, down on Cass it's just a plain bad idea to drive any nice car because the cops will simply TAKE it, cite that you were driving through a "known drug area", say they suspect you of drug trafficking and take your car, and not have to prove a goddamn thing.

Then they set an auction up north with just those few cops at it, not open to the public for "security reasons" and sell it themselves on the cheap, quite legally, ain't that just grand ?

I've passed this one on to noteable participants of the Woodward Dream Cruise amongst some concern that if unchecked, we could find ourselves on the barrel end of the same bullshit.
(Yes I participate, but not givin details)
http://www.woodwarddreamcruise.com/

Remember, we STILL have a thrice-cursed Federale task force here, which we're payin for, on top of the asshole police force those bastards are trying to force to act like something other than badlands banditos...

So you can imagine the Cruisers are not happy about hearing this, the risk of outright seizure of their precious wheels, on top of the insane price for fuel these days.

They've already asked someone else to provide a stakebed truck of "unarrestors" flying the black banner, simply for deterrent effect, which is a pretty bold thing to have done, you ask me.
http://www.infoshop.org/texts/bb_tactics.html

Why the hell do we keep paying and supporting sheepdogs that eat the sheep ?

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, April 4, 2008 5:01 AM

DEADLOCKVICTIM

something is rotten in Michigan, no doubt...
A friend, whose relatives live in the Detroit area, has related some pretty scary stuff about that place. Makes me glad to be living in, (undisclosed, remote and sparsely populated area), USA - I may not be able to hide from all the eyes in the sky, but going underground should not be all that hard....

i'm not a nut... just weighing all options is all....

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Friday, April 4, 2008 2:47 PM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:

I may not be able to hide from all the eyes in the sky, but going underground should not be all that hard....

i'm not a nut... just weighing all options is all....

You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you, it looks like in Michigan they are. I think I'll detour around Michigan from now on. I hope they don't get to much of their revenue from tourist dollars. This kind of BS can keep tourists away like the plague. The car club should try Florida next time around. The cops here are not allowed to harass tourists, the revenue is to important to the state.

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Saturday, April 5, 2008 3:01 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
something is rotten in Michigan, no doubt...

Oh no doubt, we're really hangin on by our fingernails here, although no one wants to admit it.

Ponder this one for a while...
Unsecured schools given up to thieves, vandals
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080404/NEWS01/804040
302

Our whole infrastructure is in horrific shape, and there's just no money to fix it, you can't squeeze blood from a stone, and the poor and middle class got about nothin left.

And yet, up at the top the affluent seem to be doing better than they ever have - and yanno, I ain't the only one staring at the bastards, fork in hand, wondering what they might taste like seasoned with a bit of ginger and white pepper.

Or maybe a lemon-pepper seasoned breading perhaps...

Around there, that stolen money kickback aka stimulus payment is prolly going to groceries, and if I wasn't good friends with folks who grow food, thus cutting out a lot of middleman and transport costs, I would prolly be in rough shape too.

And all the while they're planning to squeeze me even harder to bail out their fucking rich asshole buddies on wall street for failing to realize you can't crush more money out of folk you've already broken, grrr

Hmm, perhaps lightly steamed, still screaming, with a bit of wasabi, then ?

Eat the rich, yeah eat the rich
Don't you know life is a bitch
Eat the rich, yeah eat the rich
Out of the palace and into the ditch!
-Krokus

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Sunday, April 6, 2008 5:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:

something is rotten in Michigan, no doubt...
A friend, whose relatives live in the Detroit area, has related some pretty scary stuff about that place. Makes me glad to be living in, (undisclosed, remote and sparsely populated area), USA - I may not be able to hide from all the eyes in the sky, but going underground should not be all that hard....

Michigan voters keep re-electing their Canadian Governor since she has not completely turned MI into a Socialist state like her home - but she's working on it. Worst economy in the nation? Worst unemployment in the nation? The cops gotta do something to produce "revenue" and this is the stuff your government allows.

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Sunday, April 6, 2008 6:10 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Bullshit.

I live here, ok - were it NOT for the lady you dislike so much, this state would be bankrupt, screwed six ways to sunday, and more desolate than it already is.

Just look at the so called budget crisis, started with a LIE, the Rethug state reps FLAT OUT LIED about the budget to set her up and force unnecessary tax increases, both for political gain and to funnel into pork for themselves while the school system rots, and then when she wanted to cut the citizens a break with that money which was, because of that lie, not really required, by using it to bulwark fuel tax cuts, which would help across the board...

Nope, they blockaded that.

If I got any issue with the lady it's that she doesn't play hardball enough, and actually expects people elected to do a job to, you know... actually DO it, instead of sabotaging it for petty party politics while the state falls apart around us.

I would have hauled those assholes in front of a hearing and busted them down, on criminal charges, if I could - and this isn't the LEAST of the shit they've pulled, not to mention Englers outright sabotage on the way out in retaliation for us not kissing the ass of his scummy and corrupt protege, which included a sweetheart, exclusive airport rights, no-bid, humongous advance contract to the slimiest cab company around here as a slap in our faces, which utterly DESTROYED any hopes of real competition in the industry and left people like me fighting for leftover scraps while Metrocars dines at the porkbarrel table.

Oh, and you might not have noticed this, but yanno Canada is better off than we are, and laughing about it given the state of our currency and how theirs racks up against it.

Jenny's problem is that underneath the political gloss, she's an actual human being, and if you wanna fault her for THAT - which is how and why she's been blindsided and hung out to dry by a pack of nasty little brats who are angry that we don't support their abuse and exploitation, cause that IS what they act like, by all means fault her for it.

But save some of the blame for the folks NOT doing their jobs, and sabotaging every part of our system they can reach in a petty attempt to retaliate for mere politics, without regard to the suffering it causes due to them being insulated from the consequences.

And if you think another party can do better, then by all means give us SOMETHING!

Cause last time around they shoved Devos... DEVOS for crying out loud, in our faces, along with his wifes pack of pyscho relatives, and his own rampant sociopathy and greed, compounded by downright inarticulate stupidity and refusal to offer anything of real substance at any time.

A guy who couldn't carry the town he was in charge of, was booed off the freakin stage by his own - that even our radically right wing anti union scab newspaper scum (DetNews, Freep) could not stomach enough to support and actually turned on when it looked like he might stand a chance cause he was THAT awful.

Bitch all you want, due to term limits, she's out the door anyway - but for crying out loud...

If you think someone else can do better, please, offer us something, someone, anyone, who's maybe a LITTLE less slimy and corrupt than Papa Doc Duvalier to vote for!

Cause as it stands, other than Jenny, we got nothin.

Let's see what that adds up to, nothin, into nothin, carry the nothin....

-F

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Sunday, April 6, 2008 7:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

You are not the only one with MI roped around your neck. But not all of us get the same level of looney lefty liberal media that you do.

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Sunday, April 6, 2008 8:01 PM

STORYMARK

Chirst, do you wingnots have anything to fall back on but blaming the librul media?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, April 7, 2008 3:24 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Chirst, do you wingnots have anything to fall back on but blaming the librul media?

Oh sorry, can you say that again. I had Fox News turned up really loud so I missed that last part.

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Monday, April 7, 2008 3:48 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
This is just plain over the top.

California: Police Raid Car Enthusiast Gathering, Generate Revenue
http://thenewspaper.com/news/23/2302.asp

No warrants, no solid probable cause, absolute violation of privacy and fourth amendment rights.

A bogus fishing expedition on car enthusiasts, for money, legalised extortion and theft.

Why thats just horrible...no, wait! Turns out there's another side to the story:

Quote:

Police inspected more than 150 vehicles and impounded them, Riverside police spokesman Steven Frasher said in a statement. One of the impounded vehicles had a stolen engine and transmission, and 14 had altered engine or transmission identification information, Frasher said.

Three people were arrested and about 100 citations were issued for vehicle code violations. In addition, police issued 48 citations for illegal engine modifications common to street racing,

Racers had been competing for the past several Friday nights at Canyon Crossing, 6187 Valley Springs Parkway, Frasher said. The shopping center is within the Riverside city limits next to Moreno Valley, police said, and Riverside officers coordinated a multi-agency task force.

One arrest was for speed exhibition, one for resisting arrest and one for being drunk in public, police said.

"We want to send a powerful message that street racing will not be tolerated," Riverside police Sgt. Skip Showalter said in a news release.

Likely undercover police officers were present and witnessed illegal modifications on the cars cited (most of these cars probably had their hoods up to show off making the modifications 'plain site') and that allowed the police to act in the fashion they did, exigent circumstances can trump the need for a search warrant, also the prior criminal activity at the location can support their action.

But the shopping center is private property? Yes, but the owner is the only one who can assert that protection. And it is open to the public. If they wanted to search the shopping center they'd need a warrant. If they want to walk undercover through the parking lot looking at cars and observing violations, they can.

Police have a right to run plates on any vehicle, they also can issue citations that do not need arrest warrants, and they can issue those citations for other violations like tinted windows and such and some states allow police inspection of vehicles to make sure they meet state safety standards.

Street racing is a real problem. In the last few years we've had problems with the fellas who ride the motorcycles. We cite them whenever we can for whatever violation we observe (like improper mounting of the the license plates) and as a result they took their illegal racing to the next door county which is more open and rural. A couple weeks ago they caused an accident injuring a family and small children...charges pending from what I hear.

I note for the record that the article you cited seemed a bit slanted and left out the pattern pf 'street racing' at that location from the weeks prior to the incident.

Edited to add for dramatic effect:

Quote:

3 Arrested, 20 Cars Seized In Street Racing Bust
RIVERSIDE, Calif. Three people were arrested, 100 citations issued and 20 cars were impounded after more than 150 street racers were corralled early Saturday morning by nearly 100 police officers at a shopping center near Moreno Valley.

Police checked the more than 150 cars and impounded 20 of them, Riverside police spokesman Steven Frasher said in a statement. One of the impounded cars had a stolen engine and transmission, while another 14 had altered engines or identification information.

The citations issued were for vehicle code violations. Another 48 citations were issued for illegal engine modifications common in street racing.

Racers had been tearing up the streets for the past several Friday nights at Canyon Crossing, 6187 Valley Springs Parkway, Frasher said. The shopping center is within the Riverside city limits next to Moreno Valley. The crackdown was conducted by a multi-agency task force.

One arrest was for speed exhibition, one for resisting arrest and the third for being drunk in public.

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Monday, April 7, 2008 5:40 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Riverside Police offered no evidence that any street racing actually took place.

The reason they cited for probable cause failed to hold us, thus making any search BASED on that unlawful - and you know it.

It fails the burden of proof, which is theoretically on the state, innocent till PROVEN guilty, and yet these tactics, like all modern police tactics, assume guilt in advance.

I suspect if they pushed it, most of those cases will be stet, tanked, dropped, or if they did push it, would probably be nullified by jury.

Of course, this assumes they don't use modified software to pre-stack the jury pool like they do around here, and I suspect that is far more common than anyone would admit.

If the cops found an illegally modified weapon, say a short barrelled shotgun, in your house on a warrant obtained stating probable cause of drug possession, and they find no drugs - they cannot legally charge you for the weapon, although this if often the case, often in such a situation they just call the judge to hand off ANOTHER warrant, you know it as well as I do.

The whole premise of the system you support fails, because those who purport to enforce the law are in fact the most grevious violators of it, and the evidence supports that viewpoint.

Fishing expeditions are bullshit, and a fourth amendment vio no matter how you try to spin it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, April 7, 2008 6:08 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Riverside Police offered no evidence that any street racing actually took place.

The reason they cited for probable cause failed to hold us, thus making any search BASED on that unlawful - and you know it.

One person was arrested for a street racing related offense.

They also don't need to offer any evidence until trial (or in a suppression hearing).

Also the standard is not probable cause, its reasonable suspicion.

Its not a search to view what is in plain site. In fact thats an exception to the 4th Amendment warrant requirement. So is exigent circumstances. Also, if you are arrested then they get to do an inventory search of the vehicle.

But I don't have to tell you all this, you know the police acted legally and properly...you just want to feel all oppressed so you, and the author of the article you cited, distort what happened or, as in this case, simply make up facts to suit their conclusion. In this case they don't want crackdowns on Street Racing, so the article is written from the oppressed point of view. In comparison, the two articles I cited simply state what happened.

So go ahead, feel all oppressed. Oh my, then big bad police are oppressing me! I can't speed, or drive drunk, or race cars on public streets, and they make me get a license...poor me...I have to obey traffic laws...stop signs are for Nazis.... Yeah, cry me a river.

H

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Monday, April 7, 2008 6:11 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Chirst, do you wingnots have anything to fall back on but blaming the librul media?

No, they do not.

In fact, they have nothing to offer at all, as seen by their attempt to field a candidate as pathetic as Devos - they are completely out of touch, and throwing tantrums because without anything to offer, no one with a lick of sense supports them, especially folks directly impacted in really negative fashions by the petty sabotage they've been doing in retaliation for that lack of support.

You know, like me, scraping and scratching and cussing Metrocars, Engler, and his goddamn ratpack the whole while.

It really shows the true face of the Rethugs up here, that they've resorted to such measures in a retaliatory fashion - kind of a vote for us or else concept, which shows exactly what kind of monsters they are, and WHY no one not directly benefitting from their extortion and porkbarrelling is gonna support them.

I mean, hell - would YOU vote for someone who threatens you for not supporting them, then carries out some of those threats, in the process wrecking the infrastructure of your state ?

Would you, could you.. TRUST them with a public office, ever again ?

Oh and lets not mention just how MANY of these critically placed Rethugs, like Candice Miller (thankfully gone) and a couple others, always seem to somehow win votes when popular sentiment is overwhelmingly against them, and always win by EXACTLY 18,181 votes, every time.

Go on, fucking look it up, you don't believe me.

If they had anything to offer but hate, fear, abuse and exploitation, they MIGHT get a leg up around here, or at least be treated with some tolerance rather that the snarling hatred that they do get.

Consider how many folks support Detroits mayor, admittedly an idiot, in the face of a clintonesque Rethug lynch mob - sure, he's corrupt and a fool, but damn we knew THAT when we voted him in, since the only other options were worse!

And now wasting huge amounts of resources and effort on a public lynching while the city crumbles to bits underneath em... you wanna clean out corruption in the city of Detroit, start with that bitch Kim Worthy, and about ninety percent of the detroit metro PD, and you MIGHT actually get some public support behind it for once.

Of COURSE the resident jackboot symps and collaborators have little to say, they don't live here and I do - and I and my people got our claws DEEP into the local political machinery here, riding the tiger and trying to change it's course into serving the people like it's supposed to instead of exploiting them like middle age peons.

And OF COURSE they hate that, but the stupid useful idiot moron pissants don't realize that the only meaning they have to the party itself is that their are dumb enough to vote directly counter to their own interests over and over, because they somehow believe the lies that they will benefit, despite damn near 150 years of demonstrable evidence to the contrary.

But just try telling anyone something they don't wanna hear these days, no matter how true it is, and all you'll get is some recycled soundbite catchphrase from the propaganda machines, all pumping out the koolaid to damn fools chug a luggin it all day.

And for what, so their stupid delusions of a better world can be inflated and tossed about between them while in REALITY our whole damn world falls apart ?

The plain and simple fact is that they have NOTHING to offer us, and right now, neither do the Dimmocrats!

Right now I'd fuckin take Bill Clinton, he's corrupt, wicked and a liar, and I hate his guts, but at least he's a capable administrator, and Devos wasn't even that!

I'd take him over Conyers even, at least he has some balls, though his use of them tends to be rather indiscreet, hell, I'd take Dingbat (Dingell) right now if he'd run...

By preference, I'd like to see Evans (Wayne Co Sheriff) but he ain't crazy enough to WANT the job, which imop is the best qualification one could ask for, too bad he won't run...

I could go on, but you got the point, believe me, I could vent for a week and never run out of shit to bag on the local Rethugs for, much less the Dimwits.

-Frem

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Monday, April 7, 2008 6:13 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
simply make up facts to suit their conclusion.

No Zero, that's your job, you and the rest of the Testilying punks.

You seem to be having projection issues again, maybe you should look into that.

-F

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Monday, April 7, 2008 7:33 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
No Zero, that's your job, you and the rest of the Testilying punks.

Your the one citing a website that is not in the news business. Its a gossip site dedicated to fighting traffic laws. It lies about traffic laws and news around the country in the hopes of spreading false information which can be used by crazy talkers to fight their traffic tickets (and then complain about the unfairness of it all when they lose).

I prosecute people like this several times/year. I win, they whine, I come back to the office and laugh at them. Its the circle of life.

I know it might be hard to believe, but TheNewspaper.com is not a REAL newspaper.

H

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Monday, April 7, 2008 5:24 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
not a REAL newspaper

As opposed to... what ?

OH!, you mean the mainstream media shills who fed us everything from "Remember the Maine" to the Kuwaiti Incubator Story, Jessica Lynch, Pat Tillman, Niger Yellowcake and other flim flam faery tales ?

Who admitted to taking money to write shill "editorial" pieces for the current regime ?

Who withheld stories that might have made them look bad till non "real newspapers" went and did real journalism and spilled it to the public ?

You mean like Jeffie Gannon and Talon News Service ?

You walked riiiight into that, Zero.

As a lawyer, you of all people should know most people self-convict right out of their own mouth, and the value of remaining silent when you get the urge to say something really stupid.

-F

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