We Control the Horizontal by AnthonyT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

More words, Rue. Less Brick. ;-)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, April 17, 2009 5:58 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello ThatWeirdGirl,

It is true, Amateur bad guys do need to be feared. I'm sure spy shops will someday be selling hack devices to tap into these things' GPS'es.

But I do fear the Professional bad guys more, i.e. telecommunications companies with a history of spying at the behest of our government, and a government with a history of behesting them to do so.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, April 17, 2009 5:58 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

And folks wonder why Im for a revolution....

You guys know this violates our Bill of Rights, Constitution, privacy, ect ect.... right?

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Friday, April 17, 2009 6:06 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Wulf,

I hope Frem and his bretheren start a cottage industry of providing removal services for these devices from vehicles owned free and clear.

I have this vision of lawmakers someday creating a law to require that these devices be kept in place. As a safety device or some such.

I look forward with dark dismay to the day that they codify this violation of freedom and privacy.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, April 17, 2009 6:12 AM

CHRISISALL

I will never, repeat, NEVER buy a vehicle that has one of these things in it. Knowingly, anyway.
Welcome to the nightmare.

Quote:
...the cause of the 32 car pile-up on the Antelope Freeway that killed 27 people and wounded ten others was a late payment on a baby-blue Hummer owned by...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, April 17, 2009 6:39 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Indeed, Chris.

Though, I suspect it will not be a Hummer, but a Prius that causes the pileup.

Unless you were referring slyly to the famous line about an automatic revolver in The Maltese Falcon:

Webley-Fosbery automatic revolver. Thirty-eight, eight shot. They don't make them any more."

--Anthony

edited to perfect the quote.

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, April 17, 2009 7:39 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Im wondering how easy it would be to either A) Hack Them or B) Disable them?

Id want to do both.

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Friday, April 17, 2009 9:34 AM

This is a bit of a giveaway, but that particular string-yank is about played out anyway.

One of our strongarm tactics is presenting a local politician with a detailed report of the movements of their vehicle, especially if they've put it somewhere "politically sensitive" and in one case even presenting them with the Black Box EDR data proving that they exceeded the speed limit by over 15mph in a residential area.

As for the remote shutdown devices, let's just say they're very easy to hack as well, which can lead to drastic consequences when some giggling punk decides to dupe the shutdown signal and leave your vehicle stranded in the middle of a big busy intersection just to watch the fun.

Anthony ?

Quote:
I'm sure spy shops will someday be selling hack devices to tap into these things

You're about two years too late, they already do, and these devices have been in use for way longer than the news is telling you here, just not on mainstream customers.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/25/2500.asp
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/21/2133.asp

http://www.motorists.org/edr/home/introduction-to-black-boxes/
http://www.motorists.org/edr/

http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2008/01/stop_them_before_they_sca
n_aga.html

Believe me, there's all MANNER of nastiness under your hood just WAITING to rat you out to anyone with a reciever, and your tollpass or drivers license is just as likely, which is downright handy for credit thieves and other information brokers cause they don't even have to come near you or even make contact to get the job done - how convenient to be set up and handed over on a platter by the very devices supposed to insure your "safety" yes ?

NONE of my cars black boxes work, and any wireless communication intended to harvest data from them will harvest something unpleasant, especially the EDR since there's no real protection against such nastiness in most methods of scanning one and someone who knows what they're doing can make your day unpleasant in a similar fashion to causing your computer to write a bad track zero to your hard drive.
http://www.rfidvirus.org/

DO NOT SCAN MY CAR, you WILL regret it.

My position on it is that this is the same as a potentive thief peeking in your windows to see what you have - if they see something unpleasant, or get blinded by flashing lights, it is a DIRECT result of their own potentially threatening conduct that they should not have engaged in, would not have engaged in, if they did not have criminal intent, and thus they have only themselves to blame.

I also use various forms of active signal suppression and distortion, since my ride is kind of the test bed for such experimentation - remember, folks, technology is a two edged sword, and for every one way the powers that be know to get into folks business, other folk know three to shut it down or cause it to backlash.

Quote:
I hope Frem and his bretheren start a cottage industry of providing removal services for these devices from vehicles owned free and clear.

I have this vision of lawmakers someday creating a law to require that these devices be kept in place. As a safety device or some such.

Already several steps ahead, of course, and yes, bear in mind that in many states, New York in particular, it's illegal to "tamper with or remove" said device despite the fact that you own the vehicle - although you could probably stomp that flat in court, it's not gonna hold up if you outright own the vehicle.

Getting it out's a bitch though, the damn things are deliberately and maliciously boobytrapped as hell - do a little homework and you'll see for yourself, not only do you have to be very careful in removing it (pull the battery for sure, if you don't want a facefull of airbag!) but you also have to do other modifications since part of the boobytrapping makes it a required part of the ECU and other circuits, so in most cases your best bet is to flash-fry or perma wipe the "Rat" Eprom.

We don't have a plug in replacement, and if we did the month after that, the automakers and their asshole buddies in the mandatory exploitive racket called the "insurance" industry would change the configuration immediately.

These things raise insurance rates, and give them another way to fuck us, so don't expect them to give up easy.

Quote:
I will never, repeat, NEVER buy a vehicle that has one of these things in it. Knowingly, anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vehicles_with_Event_Data_Recorder
s
Of course they wiped it, but there's a handy link at the bottom of THIS page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_data_recorder
Also, there's a couple lists on the Motorists ORG page concerning EDR.

They do not want you to know, of course...
Oh yes, and if your auto insurance company even suspects you had THIS conversation, did you know that legally entitles them to jack up your rates ?

Just so you know.

Quote:
I look forward with dark dismay to the day that they codify this violation of freedom and privacy.

Over my dessicated mortal remains.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, April 17, 2009 9:52 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

How do we disable/destroy RFID chips?

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Friday, April 17, 2009 9:59 AM

http://askageek.blogspot.com/2008/10/how-to-destroy-rfid-chips.html
*laughing*

I wouldn't try that for real, mind you.

Here's something a little less destructive, and conveniently clandestine.
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2006/01/weapons_t
he_rfi.html

As for credit cards etc...

Locate where it is, put the card between two flat pieces of metal, and get a ball peen hammer, then aim the round head at that spot and one short, sharp strike will demolish it or render it unuseable without leaving potentially incriminating imprints.

-Frem

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Friday, April 17, 2009 10:16 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Well...hmmm...

Lets just say my passport ACCIDENTALLY fell in the microwave when I was innocently planning on popping some popcorn....and I, further by ACCIDENT mind you, set it to 4 seconds...

and my passport then caught fire as the rfid strip in the front sleve burned...

is that something/somehow illegal?

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Friday, April 17, 2009 10:25 AM

CHRISISALL

My vehicles predate their street date, heh heh.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, April 17, 2009 10:44 AM

Wulf ?

Technically, it probably is, since most ID cards are considered Gov property.

FYI, if you've an interest, two of our current geekfarm projects involve short range portable HERF pistols, and coilguns.

We've got a HERF about the size of a Baretta M92F with a four shot capacitor and a six foot range, and a small but right damn nasty Coil "bolt thrower" pistol with a 12 flechette clip which it can throw at about 220+fps using a stungun battery.

The flechettes are (at this time) made from light steel with razor edging in a trefoil design like a broadhead.

About like that but only 1/4" at the wide end, and about 1-3/8" long, just basically a trefoil of razor edged metal gauranteed to punch through vital organs and bleed you out in a hurry.

For legal reasons, it's single shot, one trigger pull, one shot, but for military application, full auto is entirely possible should it be desired.

If we can get the physical size down just a little more I *might* start using one for CCW.
(Oh, did I mention the unit is quite silent ? like, less than a cigarette lighter.)

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, April 17, 2009 11:16 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Unless you were referring slyly to the famous line about an automatic revolver in The Maltese Falcon:

Webley-Fosbery automatic revolver. Thirty-eight, eight shot. They don't make them any more."

Anthony (and Frem, since you'd probably find this interesting as well) - Not to thread-jack, but I just recently learned about ANOTHER "auto-revolver" that's apparently been used in quite a number of anime features (Ghost in the Shell, for one). It's called a Mateba Autorevolver. Italian-made, or was while it was in production. It's a revolver, but uses the recoil and gas of the first shot to cycle the action for the next shot.

It looks like something Mal Reynolds would like. Note how the barrel is lined up with the BOTTOM of the cylinder; they say it was to reduce the recoil climb, and keep it more in line with a natural "pointing" gesture you'd make with your index finger. Chambered in .357, .44 magnum, and .454.

I found in interesting. Apparently they go for around $1200 nowadays.

Okay, back to your regularly-scheduled thread...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, April 17, 2009 11:24 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
My vehicles predate their street date, heh heh.

The laughing Chrisisall

My vehicles predate many of the members here!

My *newest* vehicle used to be my '91 Honda CRX. Only one "black box" in that car, and that's the engine computer that controls revs, fuel maps, etc.

I recently had a 2001 Dodge Durango foisted off on me. Dodge builds a good truck. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to share any parts with the Durango!

I've been threatening to remove the "E" from the "DODGE" logo on the back and replace it with a "Y". "DODGY" better describes the build quality. 13,000 miles on it. The driver's window is off its track, and doesn't go down. Or, if you get it down pushing it down with your hands, it won't go back up. And the driver's-side rear window is "occasional" - sometimes it works, other times not so much. The passenger-side front window works, but only from the driver's control panel. When you unlatch the center console lid to open it, the latch mechanism shoots across your lap and hits the driver's door - always a treat while you're driving!

You know why Chrysler is a failing car company? Because they deserve to be! Hell, you wanna guarantee that the black boxes in your car will NEVER be used reliably against you? Let Chrysler build 'em!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Friday, April 17, 2009 12:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

A -

I honestly don't know what you have against the comfort and enlightenment of true civilization.

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Friday, April 17, 2009 1:06 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Auraptor,

Actually, it sounds delightful. Any idea where it can be found? ;-)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, April 17, 2009 1:32 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Frem?

Whats its weight and profile?

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Friday, April 17, 2009 10:50 PM