Pro-Choice Activist Killed by Christo-Fascist Radicals! by PirateCat

PC, you have *issues*, you sick bastard, and ever so typical of the type, too.

Simplest way to solve that problem is to address it at the OTHER end by preventin it from coming to that in the first place - but no one never listens to me about that, alas.

You see, I did work a short stint as security for a clinic back in my glory days, acting in defense/escort role to the patients, most of whom were already badly suffering given the horror of the decision they felt they were forced to make, and sure as hell didn't need abuse and violence against them on top of it - something which left me with a REAL dim view of clinic protesters, who were far more vicious at the time, and many of whom seemed to be sadistic pyschopaths looking for a "cause" to morally justify hurting people, something which is still quite true about them.

And back then they didn't always leave it at verbal abuse neither, on most occasions throwing things, and one noteable incident of attempting a physical assault of one of the clients patients, which gave me an excuse to vent a couple months of ire in a blunt trauma fashion on some of those assholes - my only regret about it was that I wasn't allowed to kill em.

Anyone who actively fights to restrict or ban birth control, condoms and sex education, and THEN has the goddamn nerve to attack victims of their "success" on that front, when they resort to the only option they got LEFT at that point, in my firm opinion *deserves* a visit to the trauma ward, and would be best advised not to give me an excuse to make it happen.

Watching those bastards add to the psychological trauma of their de-facto victims fills me with a hatred that borders on psychotic - especially given that with access to birth control, to condoms and proper sexual education, this would become a non-issue, and yet the same folk decrying the clinics, are the same folk RESPONSIBLE for them by fighting to block access to the very means which would reduce if not eliminate the NEED for them.

I generally stay out of this debate, given that I am in no way gonna be rational about it and I know it, but your disgusting commentary there PC deserves the full ire of someone who's gotten to see first hand what monsters people like you really are.

Despite my normally merciful demeanor, if someone offered me the chance to put a bullet in everyone cheering this murderous act, the only two things I would feel about it would be satisfaction, and recoil.

Cause to me, folks like you ain't even human - they've voluntarily surrendered any right to be, and that just makes them an object and an obstacle, naught more a piece of debris blocking the way, to be removed and disposed of.

And since you felt the need to express YOUR madness here, I felt you deserved a taste of mine, cause I *want* you to know how I feel about you.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, June 1, 2009 7:06 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I generally stay out of this debate, given that I am in no way gonna be rational about it and I know it, but your disgusting commentary there PC deserves the full ire of someone who's gotten to see first hand what monsters people like you really are.

Despite my normally merciful demeanor, if someone offered me the chance to put a bullet in everyone cheering this murderous act, the only two things I would feel about it would be satisfaction, and recoil.

Cause to me, folks like you ain't even human - they've voluntarily surrendered any right to be, and that just makes them an object and an obstacle, naught more a piece of debris blocking the way, to be removed and disposed of.

I think you should have stayed out as you said. I think he's just pulling your leg on this, as no one would write a paragraph like that, or cheer over a murder, no one.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 7:36 AM

Quote:
no one would write a paragraph like that, or cheer over a murder, no one.

Oh how I *wish* that were true, Jongstraw.

Unfortunately, I know better.

-F

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Monday, June 1, 2009 7:43 AM

JKIDDO

PC is being his real self, Jongsstraw. There really are psychopaths out there.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 8:01 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
George Tiller got popped. Wow somebody finally got him. Doctors what a bunch of creeps. I am always surprised with the so called Christians sitting in Church with the abortionist from hell.

Yes, getting shot in church is ironic. Too many "christians" go to church to get forgiven of their sins, without first making the mandatory confession to being a sinner and promising to never do it again.

I suspect most "christians" go to church to meet business customers, WHICH IS PROBABLY WHAT THIS DOCTOR WAS DOING. You can find more whores in church than in any bar.

I add that my sister was almost gunned down in church, by a "lone nut ex-soldier on psy meds" at the Communist Unitarian Universalist Church Massacre. My sister is a proud Commie atheist who lived in China and graduated from Yale. The detective who "investigated" the case previously stole my car, so I sued and filed felony charges against him, and he previously killed a woman in a car crash. Cops and prosecutors blocked all evidence from victims proving co-conspirators.
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/02/coincidence-theory-4-assassi
nations-of.html

So who killed this abortionist? Was it a police provocateur or special forces hit team, as required by Operation Northwoods false flag psyops to blame "Christian domestic terrorists"?
www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Northwoods.html
www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=miac+report&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10

Was it anti-abortionist Alan Keyes, who is suing Hussien Obama Soetoro for being an illegal alien spy, jailed twice by Obama at "Catholic Christian" Notre Dame?

50-million US citizens have been aborted since 1973, to make room for 50-million illegal alien Catholics who are banned from using birth control.

When babies are killed, then an equal number of adults must be killed, to balance the profits of insurance companies, Wall Street pensions and govt pensions.

Quote:
"The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5) Using Leape's 1997 medical and drug error rate of 3 million multiplied by the 14% fatality rate he used in 1994 produces an annual death rate of 420,000 for drug errors and medical errors combined. Using this number instead of Lazorou's 106,000 drug errors and the Institute of Medicine 's (IOM) estimated 98,000 annual medical errors would add another 216,000 deaths, for a total of 999,936 deaths annually. Our estimated 10-year total of 7.8 million iatrogenic* deaths is more than all the casualties from all the wars fought by the US throughout its entire history. Our considerably higher figure is equivalent to six jumbo jets are falling out of the sky each day."
—Gary Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Martin Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; Dorothy Smith, PhD, "Death by Medicine", March 2004 (plus 1-Million annual aborticides in USA)
http://.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.htm

"Harold Shipman, the British family doctor who murdered more than 200 of his patients to become one of the worst serial killers of all time, hanged himself in his prison cell on the eve of his 58th birthday, prison officials said. Shipman was sentenced to life imprisonment in January 2000 for the murder of 15 female patients between 1975 and 1998, and faced no prospect of parole. Two years later an inquiry concluded that he was responsible for the deaths by lethal injection of at least another 200 mostly female and elderly patients at his greater Manchester area practice. Most of Shipman's victims died suddenly without having experienced any life-threatening symptoms. They were, by and large, elderly women who died after being given a lethal injection, usually of morphine, while Shipman visited them in their homes."
—Reuters, "Britain's worst serial killer Dr. 'Death' dies in prison," January 13, 2004
www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1024925.htm

The most dangerous place on Earth is a hospital in USA. This is no accident.

Quote:

US Supreme Court in Roe v Wade at Babylonian jewish "HOLOCAUST RITUAL SACRIFICE" at Bohemian Grove, California

"A holocaust is a religious animal sacrifice that is completely consumed by fire. The word derives from the Ancient Greek holocaustos, which is used solely for one of the major forms of sacrifice. When the Tanakh was translated into Greek, the translators used the term for a similar ritual among the Jews. A 'whole offering' (Hebrew: olah‎), or 'burnt offering', is a type of Biblical sacrifice, specifically an animal sacrifice in which the entire sacrifice is completely burnt, consumed totally by fire. The term 'burnt offering' derives from the Septuagint translation, itself deriving from the Biblical phrase 'an offering made by fire', which occurs in the description of the offering. This form of sacrifice, in which no meat was left over for anyone, was seen as the greatest form of sacrifice and was the form of sacrifice permitted by Judaism to be given at the Temple by Jews and non-Jews. Modern Biblical scholars regard the Moloch offering, which involved human immolation, as being related to the whole offering. The animal's blood was carefully collected by kohens and sprinkled around the altar. Unless the animal was a bird, its corpse was flayed, the skin given to the priest (who was permitted to keep it). In later times more powerful priests forcibly took possession of the skins from the lesser priests, and it was decreed that the skins should be sold, with the proceeds being given to the Temple in Jerusalem.[6] The flesh of the animal was divided according to detailed instructions given by the (Babylonian jewish) Talmud."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_(sacrifice)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud

Snuff Kiddie Porn at jewish Bohemian Grove
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6497462494231069386
http://one.revver.com/watch/248515

VIDEO: Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove and The Order of Death
www.archive.org/details/DSIBG
www.lastingnetworks.com/alex/

Boners at Bohemian Grove
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2740234893142263113
http://garageband.com/artist/countercoup

Moloch.
an ancient Phoenician and Ammonite god, to whom children were sacrificed by burning.
-Webster's New World Dictionary

"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
-Leviticus 18:21-22, Christian Bible KJV and Jewish Torah

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people."
-Leviticus 20:1-5, Christian Bible KJV and Jewish Torah

"And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon."
-1 Kings 11:6-7, Christian Bible KJV and Jewish Torah

"Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction. But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it. And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."
-Jeremiah 32:32-35, Christian Bible KJV and Jewish Torah

And the king sent, and they gathered unto him all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem. And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel. And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the GROVE. And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech. And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and returned to Jerusalem. Jehoahaz was twenty and three years old when he began to reign; and he reigned three months in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Hamutal, the daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah. And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD. And Jehoiakim gave the silver and the gold to Pharaoh; but he taxed the land to give the money according to the commandment of Pharaoh: he exacted the silver and the gold of the people of the land, of every one according to his taxation, to give it unto Pharaohnechoh (Jewish private Federal Reserve Bank keeps ALL IRS taxes). Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign; And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done."
-2 Kings 23:1-37 and Jewish Torah

Semite.
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and ARABS - b : a descendant of these peoples - 2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language.
—Merriam Webster Dictionary

"A 'Semite' is any person living in that area, including Arabs and Christians. It's time we start talking about 'The Other AntiSemitism'. A Semite is not a Jew living in America or Europe."
—Ralph Nader (Arab-American from Lebannon), Arab-American Business conference, C-SPAN, 2003

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars
www.khazaria.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Ashkenazim.html

"But it's not just the ratty part of town. The upper class in San Francisco is that way. The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time - it is the most faggy goddamn thing that you would ever imagine with that San Francisco crowd. I can't shake hands with anybody from San Francisco."
-President Richard "Dick" Nixon, White House audiotape, Nixon Presidential Library, 1971
http://www.prisonplanet.com/032604nixontape.html (audio download)

"In the event that I am reincarnated I would like to return as a deadly virus in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation."
—His Royal Highness Prince Philip, husband Queen Elizabeth of Britain (aka Queen of Babylon/Iraq at Bohemian Grove), father-in-law of Princess Diana (on trial in October 2007 for murdering her), from autobiography, Down to Earth: Speeches and Writings of His Royal Highness Prince Philip (current King of the British Empire), Duke of Edinburgh, on the Relationship of Man With His Environment, in chapter titled, "His Royal Virus"

Babylonian jews and eurotrash royals want YOU dead so they can steal all your money. So lay down and die, after killing your entire family. Dr George Tiller was jewish, wasn't he?

"They don't lie down. They never lie down."
-River Tam, Serenity

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Monday, June 1, 2009 8:18 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
...when they resort to the only option they got LEFT at that point, in my firm opinion *deserves* a visit to the trauma ward, and would be best advised not to give me an excuse to make it happen.

Actually, abortion is NOT the ONLY option. They could have the child and raise it themselves or have the child and let someone else raise it.

I'm Pro Life, I believe life begins at conception and the State's interest in that life outweighs the mother's right to privacy. I believe that the health and safety of the mother and baby are about the only exceptions I can accept.

As a Lawyer I support Roe v. Wade, the reasoning of Row is sound and will eventually cause abortion to be eliminated. RvW says that the State's interest outweighs the mothers with viability rather then conception being the standard. If science pushes viability back to conception...then the problem is solved, no more abortions thanks to Roe.

Quote:

...fills me with a hatred that borders on psychotic...see first hand what monsters people like you really are...if someone offered me the chance to put a bullet in everyone...I would feel about it would be satisfaction...folks like you ain't even human...to be removed and disposed of.

Wow, same argument as the fella with the gun...only on the other side.

I feel bad the fella is dead, I also feel bad about all the dead babies, I feel bad for all the young girls who are tormented by this decision whether because they feel abused by the Lifers, or guilty about killing their baby, or stressed out because they decided to have the baby and its a lot of work.

Lots of bad feelings around this issue. I think thats good. Something like this should not be routine or quiet or easy. Life altering decisions should be hard.

My friend works for a Christian Pregnancy Center. They seek to provide alternatives to planned parenthood including medical support, counseling, adoption screening, etc. Don't think that abortion clinics are the only ones that get threats and abuse.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 10:04 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Actually, abortion is NOT the ONLY option. They could have the child and raise it themselves or have the child and let someone else raise it.

I agree. Our local newspaper has ads offering to pay all medical and living expenses for mothers to allow their babies to be adopted.

Where's a giant megachurch when a baby needs one?

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Monday, June 1, 2009 10:24 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

I'm Pro Life, I believe life begins at conception and the State's interest in that life outweighs the mother's right to privacy.

Odd that you want to hand control over our lives - even BEFORE we're born - to The State, and yet you still somehow manage to consider yourself a Conservative.

You must get dizzy from all the flip-flopping you do...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Actually, abortion is NOT the ONLY option. They could have the child and raise it themselves or have the child and let someone else raise it.

I agree. Our local newspaper has ads offering to pay all medical and living expenses for mothers to allow their babies to be adopted.

Where's a giant megachurch when a baby needs one?

You know when I'll be willing to outlaw abortion? When I can attach a rider to that bill that says that ALL babies not wanted MUST be adopted by pro-life families, and they can NEVER receive "welfare" or any kind of government assistance to raise those babies.

I'm betting that will happen the day after never.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 10:47 AM

ALIASSE

Broadcasting every day.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 10:59 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Odd that you want to hand control over our lives - even BEFORE we're born - to The State, and yet you still somehow manage to consider yourself a Conservative.

You must get dizzy from all the flip-flopping you do...

Silly Mike. You've been listening to what Conservatives SAY. Watch what the DO to get the real story.

I been saying it a long time now, statist authoritarians come in all flavors, left, right, centrist (Perot much?). We need to quit kidding ourselves that it's the "other guys" who have the capacity for lording it over others.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Monday, June 1, 2009 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

I'm Pro Life, I believe life begins at conception

I believe that life begins at sperm release, and all those anti-God bastards that masturbate should be incarcerated for wasting the elements of people!!!!

Go ahead & end abortion, you authoritarian, it's becoming more widely known that a diet of water & vitamins only for 60 days will end an unwanted pregnancy. Wanna outlaw fasting? Severe weightlifting that drops body fat below 3% will do it also. Wanna try women that "forget" to keep their body fat above that level for murder?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, June 1, 2009 11:11 AM

SERGEANTX

The best commentary I've ever seen on the abortion issue was by Joe Bob Briggs (yes, the redneck king of B-movie reviews). He proposed that we have a binding vote on abortion, with all those voting to ban it adding their names to a list that, in the event they "won", would commit them to adopt an unwanted baby. Sort of a put up, or shut up, kind of thing.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Monday, June 1, 2009 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aliasse:

Broadcasting every day.

My goodness, that one character sure does look like MST3K's Crow T. Robot!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 12:08 PM

WASHNWEAR

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Aliasse:

Broadcasting every day.

My goodness, that one character sure does look like MST3K's Crow T. Robot!

Mike

Roger that...and at first glance the tall humanoid looks sort of Graham Chapman-esque...

donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

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Monday, June 1, 2009 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Actually, abortion is NOT the ONLY option. They could have the child and raise it themselves or have the child and let someone else raise it.

I agree. Our local newspaper has ads offering to pay all medical and living expenses for mothers to allow their babies to be adopted.

Where's a giant megachurch when a baby needs one?

You know when I'll be willing to outlaw abortion? When I can attach a rider to that bill that says that ALL babies not wanted MUST be adopted by pro-life families, and they can NEVER receive "welfare" or any kind of government assistance to raise those babies.

I'm betting that will happen the day after never.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

The one thing I'd like for someone to explain to me is how folks can be Anti-torture, yet pro-abortion?

I guess that line of thought could be switched, too, so I'll do it before Kwick can beat me to the punch - How can someone be pro-torture and anti-abortion? But . . . that doesn't . . . make . . . as much sense . . . really . . .

I'm with Hero in that I hate the fact that this guy was killed by a guy professing to be a Christian (because it makes ALL Christians look bad). I hate the guy was killed by ANYONE, for that matter. But I also grieve for the millions of babies that are aborted. I don't know if these babies have nerve ending or if they can feel much, but imagine if they did. THAT, my friends, would be torture beyond imagining. And they've done absolutely nothing to anybody.

Just looked it up and I'll use a "conservative" source, to boot. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166555,00.html

But then this begs another question - even if a human being can not feel pain, would killing him/her in a way that would be considered painful way be inhumane or not? Would it be wrong? I'm no expert, but I hear some abortion techniques can be pretty gruesome.

I think Kwicko's idea about putting pro-lifers on an adopter's list is a pretty good one, actually. I'm fairly certain there are plenty of people out there who would adopt.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Monday, June 1, 2009 12:43 PM

WHOZIT

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523860,00.html

Do ya think a "Right-Wing" wacko did this? My guess is no.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
The one thing I'd like for someone to explain to me is how folks can be Anti-torture, yet pro-abortion?

I don't know, I'd like for someone to explain how it's a relevant comparison.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 12:58 PM

It was a bit of a jump I suppose, but I thought someone could enlighten me - in light of the discussions on other threads about torture being wrong - how people who are against torture can support abortion. That's all. Just curious...

Good to see ya back, Citizen, btw.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:08 PM

Quote:
I guess that line of thought could be switched, too, so I'll do it before Kwick can beat me to the punch - How can someone be pro-torture and anti-abortion? But . . . that doesn't . . . make . . . as much sense . . . really . . .

Well, I suppose you have to have the people be born before you can let them grow up to be tortured, so I guess I can kinda see how you can be anti-abortion and pro-torture...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
It was a bit of a jump I suppose, but I thought someone could enlighten me - in light of the discussions on other threads about torture being wrong - how people who are against torture can support abortion. That's all. Just curious...

Good to see ya back, Citizen, btw.

Because I've yet to meet someone who supports Abortion, for a start, just those that don't want to make it illegal. When it's legal it's done by a Doctor, when it's illegal, it's done by a guy with a vacuum cleaner and a coat hanger. But it still gets done.

Plus there's a big difference between a human being, and a collection of cells that might one day become a human being.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:14 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

Because I've yet to meet someone who supports Abortion, for a start, just those that don't want to make it illegal.

I'm yinyang, and I support abortion. Nice to meet you.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:20 PM

RIVER6213

People should have the choice to have the child or abort it, and anyone who has a problem with this should go and fuck themselves.

-River

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:

But I also grieve for the millions of babies that are aborted. I don't know if these babies have nerve ending or if they can feel much, but imagine if they did.

Let's put it in a framework that you might *get*.
Remember what it felt like to be born? No?
When I was 5 I had my thumb slammed by a car door and know what? I cried because, yeah, it hurt, but more because peeps were makin' such a fuss over it, afraid it might be broke (it wasn't).
You grieve for the millions that are killed as small fetuses, yet where is the Christian feeling of wanting your fellow man to experience a better life- as in having health care (You might want that- I don't recall, just makin' the point)?
IF a fetus can feel anything AT ALL, an abortion would feel a bit like being in a storm for a moment- the brain, at such an early stage, would be less able to properly recognize & classify pain than an average insect.
And then either these souls catch the next ride to our world (my belief), or, they visit the Allmighty.
What's with the grieve then?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:24 PM

RIGHTEOUS9

Well Ripwash,

simply for the same reason that we believe we can put satelites in space, cook food in a microwave oven, split the atom, perform open heart surgery, etc. etc.

Scientific consensus seems to have been reliable in the past. Scientific consensus is that the embryo is not a human being. It is a potential human being, and so is sperm and so are eggs. It is not thought to have any sentience at that point.

It can not be an easy decision for anybody who makes the choice to perform an abortion, because at that point, the baby is an idea, and killing the idea of a person that could be is a sad and weighty decision, but from our perspective, it is not killing a person.

There is no mental twister going on here either. This is not merely rationalization by us because we LIKE the idea of aborting embryos, or because we're so strongly lured by the idea that a woman should be able to do whatever she wants with her body that we are willing to sacrifice the life of innocent little baby cells.

I mean, I'm an agnostic, so for me its easy. I don't think a spirit is plopped in there right after you knock a girl up. I think it takes time for the process to create a human.

for a christian, maybe a pro-choice christian could chime up and explain whether they think the spirit comes to the body later in the process, or whether there's some other way to rationalize it.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
People should have the choice to have the child or abort it, and anyone who has a problem with this should go and fuck themselves.

That certainly would not result in an unwanted pregnancy, at any rate.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:32 PM

Also, while we're worrying over all this, and while we're attaching riders to proposed legislation, can I add another?

Can I add a rider that every father of an unwanted baby will have child support taken straight out of his wages before he gets paid? I mean, if "the State" is so interested in the fates of these babies, it shouldn't be too much of a burden for the state to take the money from the fathers to help care for them, right?

'Course, I'm thinkin' that if MEN were forced to be responsible for the children that WOMEN were forced to give birth to, then there'd never even be a question again of whether abortion should be a legal and safe alternative. I mean hell, if men could get pregnant, nobody would have ever even made an issue of this - abortion would be as accepted and normal as pills for erectile dysfunction.

On the other hand, being a man, maybe I should attach an amendment to that bill that says that the only people who are allowed to vote on whether or not abortion remains legal are those who are physically able to undergo such a procedure. In other words, sorry, men, but you don't get to vote. :)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 1:47 PM

I will simply undo the pregnancies with the spell of making!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, June 1, 2009 2:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
People should have the choice to have the child or abort it, and anyone who has a problem with this should go and fuck themselves.

-River

Ah yes, River . . . always with the thoughtful, caring and loving responses.

Oh wait! Lemme guess . . . you're gonna tell me, unprovoked, to go and . . . you know. What you said above.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Monday, June 1, 2009 2:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I will simply undo the pregnancies with the spell of making!

The laughing Chrisisall

No fair. Can't use the same obscure reference in two different threads, Chris.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Monday, June 1, 2009 2:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Plus there's a big difference between a human being, and a collection of cells that might one day become a human being.

Only thing is . . . a collection of cells, formed in a uterus by the combining of a human sperm and a human egg WILL grow into a human being. No "might" about it, my friend.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Monday, June 1, 2009 3:10 PM

Quote:
I'm fairly certain there are plenty of people out there who would adopt.

Oh indeed, many of whom CAN'T.

See, that was the final coffin nail for the relationship between myself and the now ex-Fremgirl.

She wanted kids, which thanks to battle damage I am unable to provide, and due to 'bad seed' propaganda she was unwilling to foster or adopt a potentially emotionally damaged child, something I had no issue with cause I deal with far worse (the emotionally destroyed adults they grow into) just about every day.

And so it came to the whole adoption issue, when the folks in charge of it took issue with our income for one - which mind you, combined to damn near $70k/year - as being "insufficient" for their requirements, and then the real deal killer...

The very INSTANT they learned neither one of us was a mainstream Christian, and hell *YES* they asked, rather pointedly, we were in no uncertain terms informed that we didn't have a chance in hell, pun intended.

At which point the already unstable relationship prettymuch starting coming apart in pieces.

Folks act like adoption is a 1-2-3 easy process, and the only reason I can fathom that ANYONE would think so, is never having actually investigated what a nightmare it can be, especially dealing with MARE and their damn heavy religious biases.

I'm still seriously pissed about that, cause whenever someone brings up adoption as a solution it's a slap in my face, and that of everyone who's ever tried and been rejected, whether they mean it to be or not - and since it was unintended, I choose to share with you why it's so hurtful for me to hear, rather than bring out the flamethrower.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, June 1, 2009 3:16 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Ah yes, River . . . always with the thoughtful, caring and loving responses.

Oh wait! Lemme guess . . . you're gonna tell me, unprovoked, to go and . . . you know. What you said above.

What's unloving about masturbation?

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Monday, June 1, 2009 3:36 PM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
It was a bit of a jump I suppose, but I thought someone could enlighten me - in light of the discussions on other threads about torture being wrong - how people who are against torture can support abortion. That's all. Just curious...

It's not much of a jump, really.

Anti-torture: Against violating another person's body by force, even to save the life of other people.

Pro-choice: Against taking away a woman's rights over her own body, even to save the life of a person biologically dependent on her.

It's all about the sanctity of the human body. You do not mess with that. You don't steal someone's kidney because someone else might need it to survive, so you don't tell a woman she has to carry someone in her belly for 9 months and go through a painful birth process even if that's what it takes for that someone to survive.

I don't play the "It's not a human being" game. It's a human being at a very early stage of development. It's tragic when this development has to be stopped, every time it's tragic. But that doesn't trump the rights of the "donor" a.k.a. pregnant woman to decide whether she wants to donate or not. It HAS to be voluntary, everything else is a violation.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 4:44 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I believe that life begins at sperm release, and all those anti-God bastards that masturbate should be incarcerated for wasting the elements of people!!!!

DAD:
There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

GIRL:
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

MUM:
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

MEN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
WOMEN:
If a sperm is wasted,...
CHILDREN:
...God get quite irate.

PRIEST:
Every sperm is sacred.
BRIDE and GROOM:
Every sperm is good.
NANNIES:
Every sperm is needed...
CARDINALS:
...In your neighbourhood!

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is useful.
Every sperm is fine.
FUNERAL CORTEGE:
God needs everybody's.
MOURNER #1:
Mine!
MOURNER #2:
And mine!
CORPSE:
And mine!

NUN:
Let the Pagan spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
HOLY STATUES:
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

EVERYONE:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaaate!

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, June 1, 2009 5:14 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
It was a bit of a jump I suppose, but I thought someone could enlighten me - in light of the discussions on other threads about torture being wrong - how people who are against torture can support abortion. That's all. Just curious...

It's not much of a jump, really.

Anti-torture: Against violating another person's body by force, even to save the life of other people.

Pro-choice: Against taking away a woman's rights over her own body, even to save the life of a person biologically dependent on her.

It's all about the sanctity of the human body. You do not mess with that. You don't steal someone's kidney because someone else might need it to survive, so you don't tell a woman she has to carry someone in her belly for 9 months and go through a painful birth process even if that's what it takes for that someone to survive.

I don't play the "It's not a human being" game. It's a human being at a very early stage of development. It's tragic when this development has to be stopped, every time it's tragic. But that doesn't trump the rights of the "donor" a.k.a. pregnant woman to decide whether she wants to donate or not. It HAS to be voluntary, everything else is a violation.

Hmm, good argument.

Heads should roll

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Monday, June 1, 2009 5:20 PM

JKIDDO

Quote:
Only thing is . . . a collection of cells, formed in a uterus by the combining of a human sperm and a human egg WILL grow into a human being. No "might" about it, my friend.

Except... it doesn't.

First you have a little blob of cells, which forms.... wait for it.... a placenta!. Yep! A placenta. Sometimes that's ALL that forms. Sometimes you get half a baby. Sometimes a fetus with no head. Sometimes you get two jumbled up together, or... just a disorganized mess. Scientists estimate that about 30% of all fertilized eggs are aborted, often before the woman knows she is pregnant, because of a fatal defect.
Reasons to have a late-term abortion

http://www.gendergappers.org/lizinfo.htm

Just a big mess.

No head (anencephaly)

brain outside of body

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Monday, June 1, 2009 7:14 PM

BADKARMA00

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
I'm fairly certain there are plenty of people out there who would adopt.

Oh indeed, many of whom CAN'T.

See, that was the final coffin nail for the relationship between myself and the now ex-Fremgirl.

She wanted kids, which thanks to battle damage I am unable to provide, and due to 'bad seed' propaganda she was unwilling to foster or adopt a potentially emotionally damaged child, something I had no issue with cause I deal with far worse (the emotionally destroyed adults they grow into) just about every day.

And so it came to the whole adoption issue, when the folks in charge of it took issue with our income for one - which mind you, combined to damn near $70k/year - as being "insufficient" for their requirements, and then the real deal killer...

The very INSTANT they learned neither one of us was a mainstream Christian, and hell *YES* they asked, rather pointedly, we were in no uncertain terms informed that we didn't have a chance in hell, pun intended.

At which point the already unstable relationship prettymuch starting coming apart in pieces.

Folks act like adoption is a 1-2-3 easy process, and the only reason I can fathom that ANYONE would think so, is never having actually investigated what a nightmare it can be, especially dealing with MARE and their damn heavy religious biases.

I'm still seriously pissed about that, cause whenever someone brings up adoption as a solution it's a slap in my face, and that of everyone who's ever tried and been rejected, whether they mean it to be or not - and since it was unintended, I choose to share with you why it's so hurtful for me to hear, rather than bring out the flamethrower.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

---------------

I've always found it odd that no one has to 'be approved' to HAVE children, yet must jump through numerous hoops to adopt one, Frem. It makes no sense to me. By the standards you just described, a goodly number of women who give birth are apparently 'unfit' for parenting, but because they can 'have' children, it's ok.

If a couple, or even a single person, who can provide a stable environment and good upbringing want to adopt an unwanted child, I can't for the life of me understand why they wouldn't be allowed to.

But, there's a lot of things I don't 'get', so maybe it's just me.

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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Monday, June 1, 2009 9:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:

I'm yinyang, and I support abortion. Nice to meet you.

Isuspect you don't understand what I said

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Monday, June 1, 2009 9:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Only thing is . . . a collection of cells, formed in a uterus by the combining of a human sperm and a human egg WILL grow into a human being. No "might" about it, my friend.

Not really. In fact I believe most, or at least a very large minority of developing embryos self abort for one reason or another. Add in that pregnancy in humans is the most dangerous to mother and child of any in the animal kingdom, and it starts to paint a different picture.

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Tuesday, June 2, 2009 1:52 AM

Of course, if we were to ever make real-world sex-ed available, and if we were to stop stigmatizing sex and let people know that it's natural, it's good, but there are responsibilities that go along with it, if we were to encourage condom use, if we were to make RU-486 and the "morning after" pill widely available, if we were to make adoption a better and easier option... in short, if we were to stop blocking all the ALTERNATIVES to abortion, the actual need for abortion and the sheer number of abortions would drop quite dramatically.

You know why the anti-choicers don't want any of the above to come to pass? Because it takes away their power. It takes their main issue out of the clinics and puts it in the hands of the people it will directly affect, and we certainly can't have THAT, now can we?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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Tuesday, June 2, 2009 1:59 AM

On a side note . . .

I've always thought it funny that they named the RU-486 drug the way they did. Sounds more like a question about your willingness to kill if you ask me

Are you for 86ing someone/thing? To "86" - slang for killing something.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

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Tuesday, June 2, 2009 2:26 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Tiller has already been arrested and on trial for 1,000s of 1st degree murders.

Dr Tiller the Killer killed babies AFTER they were born, when they could survive on their own.

So cops, prosecutors and judges agree Dr Tiller deserved the death penalty. But one juror hung himself.

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Tuesday, June 2, 2009 2:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Of course, if we were to ever make real-world sex-ed available, and if we were to stop stigmatizing sex and let people know that it's natural, it's good, but there are responsibilities that go along with it, if we were to encourage condom use, if we were to make RU-486 and the "morning after" pill widely available, if we were to make adoption a better and easier option... in short, if we were to stop blocking all the ALTERNATIVES to abortion, the actual need for abortion and the sheer number of abortions would drop quite dramatically.

You know why the anti-choicers don't want any of the above to come to pass? Because it takes away their power. It takes their main issue out of the clinics and puts it in the hands of the people it will directly affect, and we certainly can't have THAT, now can we?

Yeah, it does seem strange that the people who are against legalised abortion, also tend to be those that want to prevent people from having the education required to make intelligent choices. Of course moral indignation and faux superiority is so much of a substitute.

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Tuesday, June 2, 2009 4:07 AM