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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Iran
Monday, February 15, 2010 10:22 AM
GINOBIFFARONI
Monday, February 15, 2010 1:24 PM
Monday, February 15, 2010 6:15 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Monday, February 15, 2010 7:11 PM
Monday, February 15, 2010 7:19 PM
Monday, February 15, 2010 7:57 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Careful, Gino - you know we're looking for a new SecState, right? Be careful, or you'll find yourself being made an honorary American citizen! (And then you'll lose your healthcare) Mike Work is the curse of the Drinking Class. - Oscar Wilde
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:23 AM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:52 AM
Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Careful, Gino - you know we're looking for a new SecState, right? Be careful, or you'll find yourself being made an honorary American citizen! (And then you'll lose your healthcare) Mike Work is the curse of the Drinking Class. - Oscar Wilde I don't think I fit the evil criteria necessary for the position... you need to delivery the blood of six newborn babies in a blueberry smoothy to Cheney still right ? But seriously, who would you pick to replace Hillary? Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers. What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:57 AM
Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: "If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, that hope disappears," she said, "because then other countries which feel threatened by Iran will say to themselves, 'If Iran has a nuclear weapon, I better get one, too, in order to protect my people.' " Doesn't this argue for Iran to get some weapons ?
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:08 AM
MINCINGBEAST
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:21 AM
Quote:Originally posted by mincingbeast: Why does the fact that Israel, Pakistan, Russia, and India have nukes make Iran's nuclear ambitions less threatening? I lean heavily to the left, but I don't really like the idea of a repressive theocracy that has promised to destroy its neighbors, and eagerly anticipates the end times, having nukes.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:56 AM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:13 AM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:15 AM
LITTLEBIRD
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:54 AM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:02 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:19 AM
PIZMOBEACH
... fully loaded, safety off...
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:26 AM
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: I don't trust ANYONE with nukes, why should I trust Iran? Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:32 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Littlebird: Edit: I see Kwicko beat me to the punch on this one.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:39 AM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:41 AM
Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: I don't trust ANYONE with nukes, why should I trust Iran? Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com] But if you were surrounded by countrys with nukes, and you had a pair with the record of Israel and the US making daily threats against you... ( and that hostility predates the nuke power program ) Would you not want to protect yourself ? The best solution would be Pakistan, India, and Israel giving theirs up and the US getting out of the region... but that likely will not happen... what do you do ?
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: I don't trust ANYONE with nukes, why should I trust Iran? Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com] But if you were surrounded by countrys with nukes, and you had a pair with the record of Israel and the US making daily threats against you... ( and that hostility predates the nuke power program ) Would you not want to protect yourself ? The best solution would be Pakistan, India, and Israel giving theirs up and the US getting out of the region... but that likely will not happen... what do you do ?
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:53 AM
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: I don't trust ANYONE with nukes, why should I trust Iran? Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com] But if you were surrounded by countrys with nukes, and you had a pair with the record of Israel and the US making daily threats against you... ( and that hostility predates the nuke power program ) Would you not want to protect yourself ? The best solution would be Pakistan, India, and Israel giving theirs up and the US getting out of the region... but that likely will not happen... what do you do ? That's the rub isn't it? To pursue nukes only makes that target on your back larger. To pursue higher grade enrichment Publicly only insights the US - that seems a big flaw in the reasoning of "if you want to protect yourself..." I'd come out in favor of peace and win the world's favor. I know, quaint! Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:30 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:43 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:27 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:30 PM
CHRISISALL
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: It's WORLD politics. If you think local is crazed and full of paranoia this is even worse.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:32 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Gotta agree with Gino, Piz. Iran NEEDS nuclear weapons, and soon. Otherwise, we might decide to invade. As we've already shown with Iraq and North Korea: If we THINK you're trying to get them, we'll invade; if we KNOW you already have them... we'll talk. The only way Iran gets a seat at the big boys' table is if they have nuclear weapons. Those aren't THEIR rules; they're ours. At least that's the example we've set.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:10 PM
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: Yeah, bad analogy, but you get a pass since I know what you are going for. That was within this country = different. Guys, I know what you are saying but I also know you don't know what's in Ahmadinejad's heart and soul (pls, no Bush references) so you don't win me over. "If you're guessing then you don't know." And with Iran we'll be guessing for a long time. Tomorrow, if they put you in charge of US security (not you Gino) are you going to be so trusting? It's WORLD politics. If you think local is crazed and full of paranoia this is even worse. Gino - my favorite thing you said is other countries not feeling like they need to do what the US says. No one likes a bully - we've got a lot of repairing and bridge building to do. OBAMA'S NOT HELPING. Sorry for the caps - I'm starting to get pissed when I think of him. It's a slow process but no matter what I think of O. I feel like we're making the turn. Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:16 PM
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Gotta agree with Gino, Piz. Iran NEEDS nuclear weapons, and soon. Otherwise, we might decide to invade. As we've already shown with Iraq and North Korea: If we THINK you're trying to get them, we'll invade; if we KNOW you already have them... we'll talk. The only way Iran gets a seat at the big boys' table is if they have nuclear weapons. Those aren't THEIR rules; they're ours. At least that's the example we've set. We can't even handle 2 military locations Mike, Iran has to see that. They're just posturing. That's almost ALL they do. Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:49 PM
KPO
Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.
Quote:I'm not more scared of a nuclear Iran than I am of a nuclear Israel, Pakistan, or United States.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:23 PM
Quote:Originally posted by kpo: Quote:I'm not more scared of a nuclear Iran than I am of a nuclear Israel, Pakistan, or United States. Well there's that prospect of a middle east nuclear arms race that might concern you a little bit. Ultimately whether you think non-proliferation is hypocritical or not, this ultimately becomes a question of whether we *want* every country that desires its own nukes to have them, or not (or, like Gino, whether you think a country like Iran acquiring a nuke would improve the nuclear balance). If no to both questions, then non-proliferation is an imperative - and one we can't afford to not enforce rigidly. A debate on the apparent hypocrisy is ok I guess - it speaks to the question of whether all nations should reduce their nuclear arsenals in the future, or eliminate them completely (there'd be downsides to this, even if it could be achieved). But I question the value of apathy/hand-wringing on this issue... Heads should roll
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:37 PM
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: Yeah, bad analogy, but you get a pass since I know what you are going for. That was within this country = different. Guys, I know what you are saying but I also know you don't know what's in Ahmadinejad's heart and soul (pls, no Bush references) so you don't win me over. "If you're guessing then you don't know." And with Iran we'll be guessing for a long time. Tomorrow, if they put you in charge of US security (not you Gino) are you going to be so trusting? It's WORLD politics. If you think local is crazed and full of paranoia this is even worse. Gino - my favorite thing you said is other countries not feeling like they need to do what the US says. No one likes a bully - we've got a lot of repairing and bridge building to do. OBAMA'S NOT HELPING. Sorry for the caps - I'm starting to get pissed when I think of him. It's a slow process but no matter what I think of O. I feel like we're making the turn.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:40 PM
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Gotta agree with Gino, Piz. Iran NEEDS nuclear weapons, and soon. Otherwise, we might decide to invade. As we've already shown with Iraq and North Korea: If we THINK you're trying to get them, we'll invade; if we KNOW you already have them... we'll talk. The only way Iran gets a seat at the big boys' table is if they have nuclear weapons. Those aren't THEIR rules; they're ours. At least that's the example we've set. We can't even handle 2 military locations Mike, Iran has to see that. They're just posturing. That's almost ALL they do.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:47 PM
Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: Yeah, bad analogy, but you get a pass since I know what you are going for. That was within this country = different. Guys, I know what you are saying but I also know you don't know what's in Ahmadinejad's heart and soul (pls, no Bush references) so you don't win me over. "If you're guessing then you don't know." And with Iran we'll be guessing for a long time. Tomorrow, if they put you in charge of US security (not you Gino) are you going to be so trusting? It's WORLD politics. If you think local is crazed and full of paranoia this is even worse. Gino - my favorite thing you said is other countries not feeling like they need to do what the US says. No one likes a bully - we've got a lot of repairing and bridge building to do. OBAMA'S NOT HELPING. Sorry for the caps - I'm starting to get pissed when I think of him. It's a slow process but no matter what I think of O. I feel like we're making the turn. Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:54 PM
Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: Quote:Originally posted by kpo: Quote:I'm not more scared of a nuclear Iran than I am of a nuclear Israel, Pakistan, or United States. Well there's that prospect of a middle east nuclear arms race that might concern you a little bit. Ultimately whether you think non-proliferation is hypocritical or not, this ultimately becomes a question of whether we *want* every country that desires its own nukes to have them, or not (or, like Gino, whether you think a country like Iran acquiring a nuke would improve the nuclear balance). If no to both questions, then non-proliferation is an imperative - and one we can't afford to not enforce rigidly. A debate on the apparent hypocrisy is ok I guess - it speaks to the question of whether all nations should reduce their nuclear arsenals in the future, or eliminate them completely (there'd be downsides to this, even if it could be achieved). But I question the value of apathy/hand-wringing on this issue... Heads should roll Like I said earlier... If heading off an arms race is so important, why didn't this come up with Israels nukes ? There was attempts to stop Pakistan, but as India was there to, it was let go to preserve a balance... I would be all for making the middle east a nuclear weapons free zone, but don't see how it could be done. How willing would Israel be to give up their arsenal ? Are you willing to start another war over this KPO ? and this time with a country that hasn't been starved, bombed and terrorized into submission for a decade ? I think nothing would unite Iran, like the US firing missiles into their country, and I really believe they would not let that stand... Your troops in Iraq could face not only a Shia uprising, but a full on Iranian counter attack at the same time... It is not an issue for the US to decide anymore, unless your going to use nukes, and become what you say you fear them of them becoming...
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:13 PM
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:29 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: Yeah, bad analogy, but you get a pass since I know what you are going for. That was within this country = different. Guys, I know what you are saying but I also know you don't know what's in Ahmadinejad's heart and soul (pls, no Bush references) so you don't win me over. "If you're guessing then you don't know." And with Iran we'll be guessing for a long time. Tomorrow, if they put you in charge of US security (not you Gino) are you going to be so trusting? It's WORLD politics. If you think local is crazed and full of paranoia this is even worse. Gino - my favorite thing you said is other countries not feeling like they need to do what the US says. No one likes a bully - we've got a lot of repairing and bridge building to do. OBAMA'S NOT HELPING. Sorry for the caps - I'm starting to get pissed when I think of him. It's a slow process but no matter what I think of O. I feel like we're making the turn. Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com I know you said not me, but I will answer that anyway pizmo, it is a good point you make. I would let them have their nuclear power... and if they felt they needed to go to nuclear weapons, well ok but that line about great power equals great responsibility... You make the point ( not just with them, but everyone with nukes... ) perhaps a new treaty would be quite appropriate, that such weapons are for defensive purposes only, and that any country launching a first strike with them, or passing weapons or tech to third party automatically becomes the enemy of all the other signatorys... ie Iran pre-emptively nukes Israel, US, Russia and China Nukes Iran or US nukes Iran pre-emptively then Russia, China, and India nukes US legal use requires a majority vote, or you are the next target... some type of collective security arrangement that would make these weapons one of very last resort ie never to be used, including American ones. Because Bush aside, why trust US leaders either ? " That was within this country = different. " why does it have to be ? if we reguarded folk as folk and treated everyone else as we would be treated, and not vilify some with RappyFacts when it suits us... would not many of our problems go away ? sure it is bigger than individuals, but why do group rights fiqure lower than individual rights ? as a species I think we need to have more respect for each other, and forget the race, religion, citizenship crap that divides us... that will be the next big evolution. or maybe I'm too optimistic Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers. What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"
Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:54 AM
Wednesday, February 17, 2010 10:50 AM
Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: Quote:Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni: Quote:Originally posted by pizmobeach: I don't trust ANYONE with nukes, why should I trust Iran? Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com] But if you were surrounded by countrys with nukes, and you had a pair with the record of Israel and the US making daily threats against you... ( and that hostility predates the nuke power program ) Would you not want to protect yourself ? The best solution would be Pakistan, India, and Israel giving theirs up and the US getting out of the region... but that likely will not happen... what do you do ? That's the rub isn't it? To pursue nukes only makes that target on your back larger. To pursue higher grade enrichment Publicly only insights the US - that seems a big flaw in the reasoning of "if you want to protect yourself..." I'd come out in favor of peace and win the world's favor. I know, quaint! Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com]
Friday, February 19, 2010 4:06 PM
Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:10 PM
Sunday, February 21, 2010 3:28 PM
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