REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Don't buy new guns when fired from your job...

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Friday, March 26, 2010 12:35
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Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:52 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Police act swiftly after gun purchases

ODOT worker who'd been put on leave is mentally evaluated after buying handguns, AK-47

Concerns about an Oregon Department of Transportation employee who purchased several guns after being placed on leave prompted law enforcement across Southern Oregon to step in.

Negotiators and a SWAT team from Medford police safely took a man — whose name wasn't released — into protective custody Monday morning in the 500 block of Effie Street, Medford police said in a news release.

He was taken to Rogue Valley Medical Center for a mental-health evaluation.

The man recently had been placed on administrative leave from his job and was "very disgruntled," the news release said.

ODOT Communications Director Patrick Cooney said there were administrative, personnel matters involved that limited what the department could discuss.

However, the state agency had reported concerns about the man to law enforcement agencies, who started monitoring him, officials said.

"We had concerning information regarding a personnel issue and were watching the subject," Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said.

In two days, the man bought a Heckler & Koch .45-caliber universal self-loading handgun, a Walther .380-caliber handgun and an AK-47 assault rifle, Medford police Lt. Bob Hansen said. All of those firearms were purchased legally, with required record checks by the Oregon State Police.

Authorities were "extremely concerned" that the man may have been planning to retaliate against his employers, the news release said.

"Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach," OSP Sgt. Jeff Proulx said.

Douglas and Jackson County sheriff's departments, OSP officers based in both counties and police in Medford and Roseburg collaborated, he said.

Medford police watched the man's home overnight, starting at about 9 p.m. Sunday, Hansen said.

Because he was known to have weapons, police wanted to defuse the situation and ensure the man wasn't a danger to himself or others before the neighborhood awakened and people started their daily activities, Hansen said.

Medford's hostage negotiators and SWAT team were called in at 3 a.m. Monday and arrived on the scene at about 5:45 a.m., he said.

About a dozen officers responded. They closed the street for about an hour and evacuated three homes to protect neighbors and prevent bystanders from gathering, he said.

After a phone conversation with negotiators, the man — who was alone in the home — agreed to come out, Hansen said.

Police seized the recently purchased firearms, as well as another .45-caliber Heckler & Koch handgun and a 12-gauge shotgun. Police are holding the weapons for safekeeping, but no criminal charges have been filed.

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100309/NEWS/30
90315



Now besides being fired from his job and locked in a loonybin without pay, he has to pay a lawyer $10,000 to recover $1,000 in stolen guns from police state death squads.

Youth Baseball World Series Team Not Allowed to Bear Sponsor "Constitution Arms"
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/58289/yo
uth_baseball_team_not_allowed_to_bear_constitution_arms



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Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Gee whiz, you mean law enforcement is finally getting serious about checking out people who might be mentally disturbed and go in blasting away at their ex-employers, rather than ignoring them until after the fact? OMIGAWD, they're gonna take ALL OUR GUNS AWAY?!?! Terrifying...not.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA



While their possession and use of that information makes me nervous and possibly violates several existing laws regarding privacy - one could still make a very viable case for probable cause if this guy had been shooting off at the mouth, which he probably was.

That said....

FINALLY some fucking sense from law enforcement about how to handle this, secure the area and ensure peoples safety, and then reason with em or wait em out - no need for a bumrush assault straight out of a bad war movie, that'd just force matters into a violent confrontation that gets folk hurt or killed, including officers who may shoot each other (more common than you think) in the chaos and confusion of a raid like that.

AND they handled it as a mental health/public safety issue instead of filing "cover" charges, which'd be bullshit since he has not actually, at this time, committed any crime.

They did the job RIGHT, for which they deserve acknowledgement.

I do have concerns about the level of data collected, by whom and how, but I'd say it's a pretty likely assumption this guy was talking some smack, and when you do that to people, or in a public fashion, it does constitute probable cause to investigate, which they did, and by the book.

So while I might have quibbles with it over privacy, overall this is a win-win, no violence, no death, and this guy might manage to get some mental health referral out of it which would probably do some good besides, cause if he *was* messed up enough to think going armageddon on folk was a good idea, he could damned sure use it.

A bit sad that it took that significant a threat flag for folk to realize/admit he was having trouble coping - what is it with folks that we cannot or will not admit that someone might need some help BEFORE they do something batshit ?

I dunno, but I think rolling in mental health with medical care as a single entity might remove a lot of the stigma associated with it, the mind and body are both essential to good health, so why not ?

Just my thoughts on it.

-F

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Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, here in CA we have parity, so mental health IS rolled in with health care in general, so it's improving. Still far too many in jail who belong in mental health facilities, but it's a start.

Everything you said: Ditto. I, too, have doubts about the slippery slope of data in other hands, but in cases like this, I think it's justified.

And I, too, wish people were more aware of potentially dangerous folk; we had the famous 101 California shoot-out here, and it really shook everyone working in SF up, believe me! I think this article shows that people are becoming MORE aware, but it'll take time, if at all. Bear in mind that when you work side by side with someone for any amount of time, you may not see their outbursts the same way as if you just saw them in the streets...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:05 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Problem is, EVERYBODY gets mad when fired.

Millions of them own guns in the Commie database registration scheme...

Take it to the next level, and SWAT raid all gun owners who get fired.

When you run out of gun owners, SWAT raid everyone else who gets fired.

When nobody has a job, just SWAT raid everybody and shoot em in the head!


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Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...




PN, you are truly one


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, March 26, 2010 11:43 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Unfortunately, the authorities did bungle this one, on further investigation, full credit to Radley Balko for the update.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/16/pre-crime-policing/singlepage

Apparently the authorities once again skipped a single step which could have prevented the inevitable lawsuit - why not just have someone knock on the door and have an informal discussion with the guy while operating properly under the presumption of innocence ?

Or hell, call him on the phone and explain how it looks from their end so that he can help sort it out before someone has a fit over it.

Had they done either of these things and THEN been rebuffed, then there might have been a case for it, but skipping that simple common decency step has once again fouled things up, not only by costing the taxpayers money, but also by widening the credibility and trust gap between citizens and police, something that's really becoming a tremendous problem and a serious threat to the social fabric as a whole.

What *IS* it with police that they don't take the one investigative step which could prevent hassle like this - it's not like they aren't compensated to take the risk if necessary, and frankly, a knock on the door and an informal discussion can SOLVE much of this stuff without needless investment of resources, not to mention the legal issues.

-F

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:10 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Unfortunately, the authorities did bungle this one, on further investigation, full credit to Radley Balko for the update.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/16/pre-crime-policing/singlepage

Apparently the authorities once again skipped a single step which could have prevented the inevitable lawsuit - why not just have someone knock on the door and have an informal discussion with the guy while operating properly under the presumption of innocence ?

Or hell, call him on the phone and explain how it looks from their end so that he can help sort it out before someone has a fit over it.

Had they done either of these things and THEN been rebuffed, then there might have been a case for it, but skipping that simple common decency step has once again fouled things up, not only by costing the taxpayers money, but also by widening the credibility and trust gap between citizens and police, something that's really becoming a tremendous problem and a serious threat to the social fabric as a whole.

What *IS* it with police that they don't take the one investigative step which could prevent hassle like this - it's not like they aren't compensated to take the risk if necessary, and frankly, a knock on the door and an informal discussion can SOLVE much of this stuff without needless investment of resources, not to mention the legal issues.

-F



Good point. Solve the whole mess before it gets worse...A mere Suspicion to a civil liberty violation seems absurd.

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:13 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:


PN, you are truly one


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10



You have to look past all PN's pomp...usually there's a bit of truth in his posts, but instead of just saying it...he likes to get all 9 trutherishy

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Friday, March 26, 2010 12:35 PM

FREMDFIRMA



It doesn't SEEM absurd, it IS absurd.

As contract security, my official real world JOB is to *prevent* incidents, moreso than solving them - sometimes you have to, but if you do your job correctly you can seriously minimize any NEED to solve a problem by preventing a situation from escalating into one in the first place.

Problem with police is that they've gone from "Crime Prevention" to "Law Enforcement", and those are far different things.

It's also resulting in them being wholesale supplanted BY contract security in this section of the county, oddly enough.

-F

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