Nah, there are no oil plumes... by Niki2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

...What do scientists know, after all?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/06/06/couwels.oil.plumes.cnn?
hpt=T2

Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 8:12 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
...What do scientists know, after all?

They know that the climate of the Earth is being altered by carbon dioxide imbalance in the atmosphere, and that cutting down trees is the opposite of fixing the problem. They know the source of leading causes of death in the country. They know that plastic is working its way up the food chain. They know what's killing the honeybees. They know what can be used to produce biofuel and eliminate the need to drill for crude at all.

What makes you think anyone will listen to them about this?

[/sig]

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Monday, June 7, 2010 5:29 AM

Well said, PR. There are a few specifics there that I might like to elaborate on, but in general I agree.

Is it too early to start making jokes about the incompetence we've seen in capping this well? It's a horrible situation, but I'm irritated with them and I've seen some damn funny ones.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 6:10 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"They know what's killing the honeybees."

Hello,

What is killing the honeybees?

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 7, 2010 6:22 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

What is killing the honeybees?

Cell phone tower frequencies. Experiments on it were recently replicated.
Neonicotinoid insecticides have also been indicated. I think it was Italy that found a strong correlation between halting their use and a rise in bee population. However, the most controlled experiments have found that frequencies used by cell phones are interfering with hives.

[/sig]

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Monday, June 7, 2010 6:27 AM

Okay, THAT'S interesting!

The Neonicotinoid insecticides where probably reactionary on the part of France, seeing that they tend to kill or weaken bees more than they tend to make bees wander away from the hive listlessly, unless there's some "I'm sick, preserve the hive" instinct going on. (then again, I've just now read that there actually have been dead bees found in empty hives).

Other ideas suggested were parasites taking advantage of weakened immune systems (which inbreeding among commercial bees might make them susceptible).

I hadn't heard about this one, it must be newish. Let me research it and get back to you.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 6:49 AM

Hmm. Looking into it, what I found is a 2007 paper,

http://www.hese-project.org/hese-uk/en/papers/kimmel_iaas_2007.pdf

But, supposedly, it wasn't actually cell phones they used. And the returned be percentage was only 63% return for the control group and 55% in the experimental group.

A sensationalist paper in the UK picked up the story, exaggerated, and another theory is born.

It might still be true, but I have to say I'm not convinced. I just read an account that said that survivor bees in CCD have been tested, and it was found they have all 16 viruses known to affect bees.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 6:58 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sorry Rose, sweetie; the title was a snark. The idea that BP keeps insisting there's not "enough evidence" of oil plumes, despite scientists having proven otherwise, is a farce to me, and just another example of BP's attitude and the farcical nature of what's going on in that respect.

As to all the things you listed; I agree wholeheartedly, they're valid and nobody's listening. Well, not ENOUGH people are listening. We're a short-sighted species and will CHOOSE to believe what is convient (and not scary) until we're smacked in the face with it. Not even then, actually, as we are BEING smacked in the face with it right now and still there's not enough serious movement to mitigate it.

Hell no, Byte, it's not too early for me...in fact I think I've put up a couple of cartoons about it. If we can't laugh at the vagarities of our own species, I think we'd go mad.

However, I don't believe it's incompetence. It's my firmly-held belief that BP didn't expect any of their "efforts" to succeed, they just had to keep doing SOMETHING. I think they know full well that all the technology for decades has been going into drilling deeper and deeper, while little or no effort has gone into STOPPING a deep-water gusherfuck. It's come out that this is true, but how would they have looked if they'd said that up front and not "tried" one thing after another?

I’m not convinced they’ve found the answer to the bee problem, either. I hope they do; we’re gonna be reeely screwed if they don’t, tho’ you notice there’s not a peep about it hardly ever on the news. Bees aren’t big story—but they SHOULD be, considering the interconnectedness to us. There again; short-sightedness as to what’s important/scary rules the day.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 7:07 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

This Bee discussion reminds me of 'The Happening' where an event occurs and there are myriad explanations for it, but none of them are quite conclusive.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 7, 2010 7:41 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
They know that the climate of the Earth is being altered by carbon dioxide imbalance in the atmosphere, and that cutting down trees is the opposite of fixing the problem.

Actually they know that there is more funding if they believe in popular fairy tails. If the world funded flat-earth research, you'd have a AlGore and his flat-earth global scientists condemning right wing flat-earth deniers.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 7:42 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
What is killing the honeybees?

I have this stuff in a spray can.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 7:46 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. Looking into it, what I found is a 2007 paper,

http://www.hese-project.org/hese-uk/en/papers/kimmel_iaas_2007.pdf

But, supposedly, it wasn't actually cell phones they used. And the returned be percentage was only 63% return for the control group and 55% in the experimental group.

Do a search and select 'latest' from the side menu. The article featuring this excerpt was posted today:

Quote:
Three hives were selected. Around hive one were placed real live cell phones. Around hive two were placed fake cell phones and around hive three no cell phones were placed.

Hive one was subjected to two fifteen minute cellular exposures per day. The exposure was performed during intense hive activity. The duration of the experiment was three months.

Three months of exposure led to the following results:

The queen bee in hive one laid fewer eggs than the queens in hives two and three. In hive one there was no honey or pollen to be found.

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Sorry Rose, sweetie; the title was a snark.

Uh, what gave you the impression that I didn't realize that?

I hope Hero enjoys breathing carbon dioxide. Have fun with that, man.

[/sig]

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Monday, June 7, 2010 8:00 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

This research you have summed up appears to suggest that the proximity of electromagnetism negatively impacts the bees. I do not think it is a good experiment for determining whether cell phones are the cause of bee problems, since most hives are not flanked by close-proximity cell phones. It would also be important to know what the cell phones were doing. Will any electronic device that produces rf do it? Is it unshielded power? What proximity is needed? Do specific modern-tech devices produce this effect?

Much more research is needed before anyone can say they know what is happening to the bees. Good science means you don't leap from A to Z.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 7, 2010 8:10 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
most hives are not flanked by close-proximity cell phones.

That is true, but the hypothesis came from hives that were in close proximity to cell phone towers. Most especially in India, where they observed some immediate problems when the first towers went up.

Quote:
Good science means you don't leap from A to Z.

Well, this was a controlled experiment with results that can be replicated, so I'm not sure it's fair to say it was a leap from A to Z; that would have been running no experiment at all and claiming the proof was in the initial observation.
More experiments may need to be run to pin down more specifics, but do you think there isn't a clear factor, here? Some solid information? A good idea of a problem?
Maybe it's more like a leap from, say, Q to Z?

[/sig]

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Monday, June 7, 2010 8:13 AM

I also note there's another potential flaw in the study in question: small sample size of hives.

It is interesting still, though, let me look at this new study and see if they talk about where they got the queens from. If they used preexisting hives, there's a possibility that the study was unintentionally compromised from the get-go.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 8:16 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

B to Z, then?

So many questions and variables remain. And problems. Not the least of which is the fact that a cell phone is not a cell tower. If the point was to specifically determine the threat of cell towers, the experiment was poorly planned. I would say the only conclusion able to be drawn from this experiment is that more experimentation is warranted. Hopefully they will obtain the budget needed to perform more relevant experimentation that will ferret out the myriad variables and possibilities.

The short version is, however, we apparently DON'T know what's killing the bees.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Monday, June 7, 2010 8:17 AM

Niki:

Then, for your entertainment...

Tetris.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 8:33 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, Byte; you get the award for my first giggle of the morning. Thank you. It's so right on...sigh...sadly...

I'm sorry, Rose; I got that impression from your first response, it seemed like you took my title seriously. No intention to offend, I assure you.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 8:40 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

...and in return, I give you:

Not nearly as funny, I grant you...the "humor" so far has been mostly political.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 8:45 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

...and of course, everyone's playing this game right now:

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Monday, June 7, 2010 9:11 AM