Does Fido have a soul? by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Does Fido have a soul?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, June 14, 2010 06:01
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Sunday, June 13, 2010 6:16 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Not much news of interest (for me) outside the Gulf, so I thought I'd throw this one up out of curiosity:

Quote:
A few years back, a woman invited me to her dog's funeral.

As she dabbed tears from her eyes, she walked through a pet funeral home recalling how her dog had helped her overcome a serious illness and a divorce.

I met her because I was writing a newspaper story about pet funeral homes. But there was a religious undercurrent to our conversation that I never broached. She believed that she would see her dog again.

As anyone who has a beloved pet knows, the experience is like losing a part - the better part - of one’s self. Animals, many people feel instinctively, are more than their soft fur and big eyes.

It’s an intriguing question: Do animals have souls?

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/11/does-fido-have-a-soul/?hpt=Sb
in

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 6:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Do people?

Nah......

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 6:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

If dogs don't go to heaven, then I'm not going either.

" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.

" ...the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate. " - Kaylee

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 6:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, my philosohy doesn't have a "heaven", but they certainly seem to have souls to me.

I rented "Hachi", the movie about the dog who went with his owner to the train station every day and was there to greet him when he came home. His owner died one day, and for the remainder of his life, Hachi went to the train station every night, waiting for him to come home.

If I'd known what the movie was about, I'd never have rented it. I've known the story for years and it's a beautiful one. But to SEE it, and the way the dog got old and infirm but still went, upset me for the rest of the night. I didn't watch the whole thing.

So it speaks to whether it was just habit, or is there something else at work? He wouldn't eat when the owner's daughter adopted him and took him home, and was shut down) completely until she turned him loose, then crossed miles to get back to the station. I dunno, a question we can never answer, but I found it worth wondering about.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 8:07 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I do not know if a Dog has a soul, but I do think a Dog can Love.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 4:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Any critter that has a unique, individual personality has a soul - so that'd be a lot of em.

Mind you, the Ka, the essential motivating spirit, and the Soul, are different things in my own belief, the Ka is what gives life, the spark of life, while the Soul is what gives personality.

Some critters have Ka but no Soul, but the reverse is only true in rare cases of injury where the Ka has been driven from the body and the Soul refuses to throw in the towel, which is kind of a horrible thing.

-F

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 5:24 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Frem,

Sounds like you are describing the Undead.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 5:56 PM

BYTEMITE

He's talking about a fatally agonizing injury that the conclusion is foregone, but it goes really slow. Me, I still wish they pull through, but I know they can't, and they're just in so much pain. Sometimes you wish, as a mercy, that they could go quick. And they don't. That's what Frem's talking about.

But it can be just as bad when all higher brain function has ceased, but the brain stem still knows how to scream.

I don't really believe in a soul, or in heaven or hell, and I kind of am annoyed by metaphysical questions and proofs, like the 11 grams humans supposedly lose when they die. Really? The last breath, plus people have a tendency to, you know, release certain substances on death, but that's the idea people jump to? No, that's not an explanation at all influenced conclusion the observers would like to make.

But in the sense that there's something special in an animal, that they connect on a meaningful level with other animals, yes. There's something special and unique in their brain function, some beautiful pattern in otherwise random firings of neurons. Humans and other animals share it, and possibly more.

I'd define it about the same way Frem would, with one stipulation: it might be really hard to recognize personality as we know it in some lifeforms and structures, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not there.

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Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

( pardon the sidetrack, but just a brief remark on animal intelligence )

Saw the documentary on a killer whale killing a great white shark.

A classic match up between two apex species in the same eco system
, but one which no one had ever seen before.
The amazing thing was HOW the whale did it, as it was caught on tape.

Sharks become almost instantly submissive and fall into a an catatonic state, once they're flipped on their back. Somehow, the whale " knew " this, because it was seen holding the shark upside down for a few minutes, before it started ripping it to pieces.

Now, it's one thing for a whale to learn a technique on how to hunt from another whale. Seems they do that all the time. But how does a whale find out this "trick " in the first place ? If nothing else, whales have to enough experience , enough encounters with sharks to some how figure this strategy out. Once done, the " teaching " it to other whales in the pod seems easy.

Not much on t.v. that really gets my attention, but this.... wow.

" Being correct does not excuse a violation of form " - Ducky, NCIS.

" ...the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate. " - Kaylee

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Monday, June 14, 2010 5:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Pretty cool, eh? There are tons of stories of animals "figuring out" things...I would guess from what I've seen that it happened once and they saw how he went still, so passed it on. Whales, as we've discussed before, are a lot smarter than we give them credit for--especially killer whales. Apex species usually are. The shark has survived so many eons because it is an instinctive killing machine with all the tools it needs to be one. Killer whales use their intelligence in catching their prey (usually seals) and are known to entice seals out in the water, use diversions and sneak attacks, etc. The whale just goes after whatever looks like food, it's instinctive.

With higher intelligence species, it can take only one instance of something for them to catch on. Ravens, for example, use tools to obtain things, even if they're never "taught" to do so by another raven. So there's some thought process that goes on along the lines of "what would happen if I...?"

Seems simple enough to me with killer whales, who communicate very well. If it happened JUST ONCE, the whale would take advantage of it and it would be tried again.

Still really neat; one I have never heard about. I have a very high respect for killer whales--I LIKE dolphins much more, but can't know their intelligence capacity in comparison with killer whales because they rarely use it...they rarely HAVE to, food is easy to catch.

That may contribute to higher intelligence in the killer whale. Dolphins can pretty much swim along and grab a snack whenever they feel like it; killer whales have to work for their food. When dolphins DO have to put any energy into food, they work together, and I love watching the "bubble circles" they come up with. On the other hand, dolphins "play" and make up games, killer whales don't. So who's smarter? Or is it just a matter of "different"?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Monday, June 14, 2010 6:01 AM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Pretty cool, eh? There are tons of stories of animals "figuring out" things...I would guess from what I've seen that it happened once and they saw how he went still, so passed it on. Whales, as we've discussed before, are a lot smarter than we give them credit for--especially killer whales. Apex species usually are. The shark has survived so many eons because it is an instinctive killing machine with all the tools it needs to be one. Killer whales use their intelligence in catching their prey (usually seals) and are known to entice seals out in the water, use diversions and sneak attacks, etc. The whale just goes after whatever looks like food, it's instinctive.

With higher intelligence species, it can take only one instance of something for them to catch on. Ravens, for example, use tools to obtain things, even if they're never "taught" to do so by another raven. So there's some thought process that goes on along the lines of "what would happen if I...?"

Seems simple enough to me with killer whales, who communicate very well. If it happened JUST ONCE, the whale would take advantage of it and it would be tried again.

Still really neat; one I have never heard about. I have a very high respect for killer whales--I LIKE dolphins much more, but can't know their intelligence capacity in comparison with killer whales because they rarely use it...they rarely HAVE to, food is easy to catch.

That may contribute to higher intelligence in the killer whale. Dolphins can pretty much swim along and grab a snack whenever they feel like it; killer whales have to work for their food. When dolphins DO have to put any energy into food, they work together, and I love watching the "bubble circles" they come up with. On the other hand, dolphins "play" and make up games, killer whales don't. So who's smarter? Or is it just a matter of "different"?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

Dolphins LIKE you too. You smell like a fish.....

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