It's really really REALLY worse than we knew..... mother F***ER!! by AURaptor

America loves a winner!

It also explains the " other " plumes being discovered, which BP says doesn't exist ?

“We will not rest until this well is shut, the environment is repaired and the cleanup is complete.”

- Barack Hussein Obama

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:35 PM

BYTEMITE

Definitely possible. Other horizontal plumes may be coming off the main vertical oil column as well, simply due to temperature and density differences, and crude oil being kind of a mixture fluid composed of different substances with different densities.

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:44 PM

America loves a winner!

Might be a good time to rethink manned missions to Mars.

“We will not rest until this well is shut, the environment is repaired and the cleanup is complete.”

- Barack Hussein Obama

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:49 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Might be a good time to rethink manned missions to Mars.

Or at least rethink offshore drilling.

The only real hope now is that one of the two relief wells will take pressure off the main wellhead, enough pressure, for long enough, that they can pump some concrete down the bore of the original blown-out well. Historically, that has been the ONLY thing that has worked, as far as I've heard or read. It's what stopped the IXTOC-1 disaster in the Gulf, which still stands as the largest accidental spill in history, and which gushed oil into the Gulf from its fractured wellhead for more than ten months.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:02 PM

America loves a winner!

There goes the nuke option. They have no clue where the failures are in this well, and there's really only 1 shot at trying something that desperate.

The unconscionable array of warnings which were ignored, time and time again, show's the infallibility of man to be mythical.

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:13 PM

I think you meant "fallibility".

It also shows the fallibility of the free market deregulated oil industry.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:28 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

I might have an idea.

What about dropping a really, really, big rock or concrete slab on top of the well? Something heavy enough to counter the pressure of the gushing oil.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:44 PM

America loves a winner!

Too many holes " down well " for it to do any good.

Plus, there's the minor issue of the 450 ton BOP, sitting on top of a pipe sticking out of the ground....

They were barely able to cut through a simple piece of crimped pipe, coming out of the top of the BOP. To somehow remove that from the pipe it's connected to ?

Not a chance in hell.

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:02 PM

But Sarah SWORE it was perfectly safe to drill, baby, drill!

You mean she LIED?!

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:05 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
That the system below the sea floor has serious failures of varying magnitude in the complicated chain, and it is breaking down and it will continue to.

This is tough to even collect my thoughts, not being able to comprehend the enormity of it all , but in some ways, this reminds me of the WTC towers, after they were hit.

Looking at the burning structures, it dawned on me that there was a very real chance they'd collapse. If they kept burning, kept weakening the supports with in the building, then gravity would simply have its say. It was inevitable.

There's a reason why the 2nd building hit was the 1st one to fall. Mass. While both towers were structurally identical, and the 2 planes hit at about the same speed, and were of roughly the same size and carrying similar amounts of fuel, the 2nd plane hit lower down. That meant there was more weight on top of the impact area, which put more stress on the supports. Once weakened, the process wouldn't stop, but only get worse.

Same thing has to apply here. Even if the damage "down well" wasn't major ( though it seems to be substantial ) the elements involved here, the erosion and pressure, won't stop, but only get worse.

Small leaks, in soil / rock , get bigger over time.

( it's tough to even write this, in light of what very well could / has already begun to happen. )

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:10 PM

TRAVELER

No. It only means she does not have a clue. When I say that, I mean about anything that comes out of her mouth. You need a brain to form a lie. I see no evidence of a brain.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:11 PM

America loves a winner!

Really?

Sarah Palin quips, in this thread ?

How fucking stupid are you ? Honestly.

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:51 PM

BYTEMITE

There's one thing that might still work.

If you drill a relief well, with more suction than the pressure the leak is coming out, you'll draw down the oil, water will go into the space you make, press down on the oil. Water's already going down there, but drawing down the oil will draws it away from the fractures where there's much higher conductivity.

That's one way to stop the leak. Problem is it's a while to set it all up.

Even as the oil is emptying at the rate it is now, the oil in the aquifer is being drawn down, if there is no more structural collapse, might even happen naturally over time the other leaks stop. But that'll take a long time too.

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:06 PM

America loves a winner!

I guess what we need now is....

Hope?

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:31 PM

DREAMTROVE

My understanding, and I haven't followed it that closely, is that this went something like this:

They didn't drill, they used bombs to make this hole, and so they created fractures all over the place, not that all the seismic activity might not have done the same, assuming that the local seismic activity was not caused by BP drilling. (anyone remember that they set off the largest chargest two days before the hatian earthquake? That was BP, unprecedented level of explosives at an unprecedented depth, I posted it here then)

Anyway, after they cracked the hole, they didn't put the stabilizers in. That exchange probably went like everything else:

Halliburton: um, you're going to need a few stabilizers so as that pipe doesn't hit the wall and break. We were thinking like maybe twenty... thirty

BP: screw that. Sounds expensive and slow.

MMS, govt regulators: yeah, what he said

Halliburton: but...

BP: oh alright, but only half a dozen.

HAL: but

MMS: Doh, yup yup yup. just get the fucking oil. Got the oil yet?

BP: yeah, get that oil. Screw safety. If you waste an hour do you know how much money we lose? How much I lose from my golden parachute? More than your salary bitch...

So, once in place, yeah, it broke, and it wasn't really a solid tunnel, more of a bombed out cave. (yeah, now we know where bin laden is really hiding.) the pipe prolly broke when the rig went down, and now it leaks out everywhere.

Doesn't mean it's going to by as bad. Plugging the hole is undoubtedly still worth doing, a relief well would be a good bet, drain the well quickly. That might take a while. A permanent surface clean up crew might be needed while it goes. Also, you need someone competent on the well.

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Really?

Sarah Palin quips, in this thread ?

Hey, she's YOUR messiah! And she SWEARS it's safe to drill - anywhere, everywhere. "Drill, Baby, Drill!" "Drill Here, Drill Now!"

Are you saying she was WRONG? That maybe she didn't know what the fuck she was talking about?

Hell, I'll quip Palin all day long; you certainly have no qualms about quipping the President.

So how fucking stupid are YOU? Honestly?

Never mind - I already know the answer. ;)

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I guess what we need now is....

Hope?

Maybe we need a Decider. Or a pitbull with lipstick. Or lipstick on a pig. Maybe the VP should shoot someone in the face real quick, to distract the media! Or we could just invade some other country; that's always good for a laugh, right?

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:31 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I guess what we need now is....

Hope?

All we are sayyyyyying...(quick, join in!) is give hope a chance.....

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:52 PM

Dang, I've been singing it wrong all these years...

"All we are saying
Is eat Raisin Bran®"

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 6:06 PM

OPPYH

How do you fuck up a planet beyond comprehension? Check back 50 years from now to find out.

-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Thursday, June 17, 2010 6:49 PM

TRAVELER

We gave been screwing this planet for centuries. How many atomic bomb tests were made before it entered anybodies head we might be doing some serious damage. Pesticides sprayed by the tons and everyone ignoring the deathrate of wildlife where it caused. Lead in paint and gasoline. Can you imagine exhaust fumes filled with lead. All our older buildings still have asbestos in them. It is supposed to be removed, but no one is sure where it all is. We get news of some old building being torn down and they find out there is still asbestos in it. It seems to be our nature to find some new way to wreck the Earth.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Friday, June 18, 2010 2:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Really?

Sarah Palin quips, in this thread ?

How fucking stupid are you ? Honestly.

I'll answer...He's very stupid. Why are you acting surprised?

Look on the bright side...That well deposit only holds 50 million barrels it can't leak forever.

My guess is this leak will not stop(if even possible) till "The big O" is replaced in office next November.

As far as the rest of this debacle:
1) That Obama waited 50+ days to talk to the CEO of BP....is in my mind criminal negligence

2) That Obama never called the heads of Exxon/Mobil, and instead relied on BP(major conflict of interest) and academics to solve the problem....is plain stupid.

3) That we could not find away for the Obama administration to cut through red tape faster so the states could protect their shores.....is preposterous.

4) That many nations asked OUR permission to send THEIR ships and tankers to help, and we denied them....is criminal negligence and fucking stupid.

The bottom line is our president is frozen. I think it's his lack of experience. Can you imagine how different it would be with even Bill Clinton as president. Do you think it would have taken slick willy 50+ days to talk the BP's CEO? Do you think Bad Bill would not have picked up the phone on day 1 and called the heads of America's oil companies and said "Hey, there this is Bill and we have a enormous problem"?

This man is about as effective as a leader, as a Boy scout troop leader would be as an army general.

We should be ashamed as a country that we elected this man as president.....

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Friday, June 18, 2010 3:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
But Sarah SWORE it was perfectly safe to drill, baby, drill!

You mean she LIED?!

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

And you:

I am always amazed, that with all those penises in you, you can still manage to type with your ass.........

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Friday, June 18, 2010 3:47 AM

Quote:
look on the bright side...That well deposit only holds 50 million barrels it can't leak forever. My guess is this leak will not stop(if even possible) till "The big O" is replaced in office next November.

That's a keeper! Obama will be voted out of office in November 2011, huh? Wow. Gonna move the Presidential election up a full year just for him?

And all this in a post blathering about someone else's supposed stupidity...

You gave me my first laugh of the day, River.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 18, 2010 4:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
look on the bright side...That well deposit only holds 50 million barrels it can't leak forever. My guess is this leak will not stop(if even possible) till "The big O" is replaced in office next November.

That's a keeper! Obama will be voted out of office in November 2011, huh? Wow. Gonna move the Presidential election up a full year just for him?

And all this in a post blathering about someone else's supposed stupidity...

You gave me my first laugh of the day, River.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

Wow, ignore the substance much? You gays are always nitpicking, if it's not your matching manbag and socks it's something as simple as a mistyped date. You know damned well what I meant. However, because you are gay and a biological malfunction, you have to pick out something as meaningless as a date. Rather than reply to the substance...you are a tool of the highest degree....Well, it's true........

Why not point out that I didn't put a space in " A way" and wrote away? Douche.

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Friday, June 18, 2010 4:09 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

In persective, a lits of the 10 worst spills

www.envirowonk.com/content/view/68/1/

Rappy, what Mike is saying is that you should learn from this. The people you've been depending on for news and views aren't always correct- in fact, most often wrong. The corporations you believe make life better have a dark, dark side. And yes, we already know about Obama's ineffectiveness. But the reason why he's been ineffective is because he's following the corporate lead... don't disturb the banks, don't disturb the insurances, don't bother the oil companies. He is simply following YOUR plan of being a non-government as much as possible. I think you need to make up your mind what you really want.

FWIW. this is about what I've been thinking all along. When I saw the footage of bubbles rising through the seafloor a few dozen feet away from the broken riser, I ASSUMED the casing was broken to some depth... possibly all the way to the reservoir. The only way to stop this is the relief well.

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Friday, June 18, 2010 4:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
But Sarah SWORE it was perfectly safe to drill, baby, drill!

You mean she LIED?!

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

And you:

I am always amazed, that with all those penises in you, you can still manage to type with your ass.........

That's nothing - you should hear me play piano!

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 18, 2010 4:37 AM

MALACHITE

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
In persective, a lits of the 10 worst spills

www.envirowonk.com/content/view/68/1/

I'm wondering what you are meaning by quoting this top ten list. Are you saying the current leak isn't that bad because it doesn't make the top ten yet?

So the 10th worst spill on your list had 40 million gallons dumped.
What I'm seeing for the current spill is that it is hard to estimate at this point how much has actually been dumped because different sources have different estimates of leakage rates. I don't know if pbs news is considered a reliable source, but in their link, they have a calculator to determine how much oil might have leaked. Even their more conservative estimates have this leak pretty close to the top ten (and it is still counting...). Their less conservative estimates have this as approaching the worst spill ever (if I'm reading everything right)... http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/05/newshour-oil-widget-2-incl
uding-spillcam.html

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Friday, June 18, 2010 4:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
But Sarah SWORE it was perfectly safe to drill, baby, drill!

You mean she LIED?!

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

And you:

I am always amazed, that with all those penises in you, you can still manage to type with your ass.........

That's nothing - you should hear me play piano!

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

A regular ole Liberace I bet.....

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Friday, June 18, 2010 4:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
In persective, a lits of the 10 worst spills

www.envirowonk.com/content/view/68/1/

Rappy, what Mike is saying is that you should learn from this. The people you've been depending on for news and views aren't always correct- in fact, most often wrong. The corporations you believe make life better have a dark, dark side. And yes, we already know about Obama's ineffectiveness. But the reason why he's been ineffective is because he's following the corporate lead... don't disturb the banks, don't disturb the insurances, don't bother the oil companies. He is simply following YOUR plan of being a non-government as much as possible. I think you need to make up your mind what you really want.

FWIW. this is about what I've been thinking all along. When I saw the footage of bubbles rising through the seafloor a few dozen feet away from the broken riser, I ASSUMED the casing was broken to some depth... possibly all the way to the reservoir. The only way to stop this is the relief well.

Yup. Rappie, you're upset because you think Obama reacted to this spill as if it were a thousand-barrel spill... because that was what BP, the operator of the rig, SAID IT WAS.

So after all your years of claiming that business, and only business, is the one who can run things, do things, and should be the only ones we listen to and trust... NOW you're just finally realizing that corporations will lie to you? Really? Just now? And you're mad at Obama because they lied to him as well? Seriously?

You still sound as if you're arguing that the government should be in charge of all oil drilling, monitoring all oil wells, monitoring safety devices, monitoring oil flow, and telling oil companies what they can and can't do, since it is ONLY the government that you think has the ability or responsibility to respond to a man-made disaster.

Who should be running the offshore oil wells? The Navy? Coast Guard? Marines? Obviously we can't rely on the corporations, since we know for a fact that they've been lying to us about what they're doing and how they do it for decades.

So is that what you're saying, Rap? You want the government taking over offshore drilling completely? If you want them to have sole responsibility for the spills, shouldn't they have sole control and access to the oil in the first place?

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 18, 2010 11:22 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'll go back and read through the thread, but our internet has been down for two days ()#@&$) and this was the first thread I saw. I only read the first post, but this is what I posted about last week, the possibility of an "underground blowout", that someone had surmised. That article said it COULD be relieved, if the relief wells come in low enough on the pipe. If not, yeah, we're screwed. That thread, as I recall, got no responses at the time. I'm glad this one did.

At the time, the author was guessing that's why BP stopped the "Top Kill" for a while on Memoraial Day (remember that?); that they had seen evidence of this underground blowout and were afraid to try any other kind of capping, instead went to capturing oil. But the scenario painted was that it'll be okay IF the relief wells come in far enough below the underground blowout, so maybe that's what will happen. Certainly if BP recognized what was happening, they'd make sure the did, wouldn't they?

I'll respond to the rest of the thread after I've read it, I just found it interesting that this topic came back again.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

To Kwicko:" You're the putrid slime which oozes between troll's toes, you're so low.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Friday, June 18, 2010 11:41 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, well, I didn't miss much. Didn't think so; just a lotta back-and-forth gamesmanship. Only DT and Sig had anything of real value to add:

DT: Excellent script, and about what I thought, too. We really wanna be pissed at someone on top of BP? Try MMS!

Sigh; I think that was an excellent statement; it won't get through, of course, but you're right on.

Yeah, Malachite, nobody's been able to figure that out yet. I'm half convinced BP KNOWS--when asked for their help in calculating, they came back with how they're focusing on stopping it, not how much was coming out. Of course, that's because it's probably at the upper estimate, and the don't want that to come out because it will cost them more. We've kinda got their number by now, eh?

I agree with Traveler, too. But I don't think it's so much that "It seems to be our nature to find some new way to wreck the Earth", as it is that we're short-sighted and selfish; we build things for our convenience without any thought to the larger consequences. Pretty normal human mentality. Question is: will it ever change? And even if it does, will it change IN TIME?

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Friday, June 18, 2010 12:30 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

When is Obama going to turn the oil to wine?

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Friday, June 18, 2010 12:48 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Still waiting... dang!

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Friday, June 18, 2010 1:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
When is Obama going to turn the oil to wine?

Probably about the time your precious free market cleans it all up!

Still wating... DANG!

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 18, 2010 2:20 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
In persective, a lits of the 10 worst spills

www.envirowonk.com/content/view/68/1/.

I've heard about the list you linked, an my response is - so what ?

Simply by gauging in barrels of oil leaked isn't the sole determining factor in measuring the severity. The burning wells in Kuwait and the damaged valves on tankers are nothing compared to the shattered well, a mile under the surface of the Gulf.

And then there's the matter of the Gulf coast. Home to so many species of bird, fish , mammals.... not to mention the open water life. No amount of cash from BP's fund can replace what's been lost. It's like an eraser has simply taken out the impacted areas, and left a ugly , oily smudge across the region.

At times I think I may be happier NOT knowing, but then my imagination starts to work, and things become very bleak and gloomy.

Others have mentioned that there is some " good " news, in that the relief wells are a head of schedule.

Again, I say - so what ? How are we getting this information ? The same way and source as told us only 1,000 barrels a day are leaking, or that the 'top kill' was progressing and showing promising signs.

I won't truly START to feel any sense of reassurance until that well is at least contained. And even then, I'll always wonder if the other shoe is gonna drop, and something truly catastrophic happens down there.

What then?

No inconvenience, what so ever. As I said, I got no use for..... private messaging some.

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Friday, June 18, 2010 2:30 PM

So you're not concerned with WHAT is happening, but only WHERE it's happening. You see it as THE single worst economic catastrophe ever in the history of anything, because it's in your back yard. If it were in Iraq or Kuwait or Nigeria or Alaska, your reaction would be, and I quote, "an so what?"

Events don't matter until YOU feel threatened by them. Good to know.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 18, 2010 2:53 PM

America loves a winner!

Your reading comprehension skills absolutely suck if all you got from my post is that it doesn't matter unless a catastrophe is close to MY home.

Sad if one is that stupid to think that. It's possibly more sad if they know better, and simply are trying to be a dick head by posting such juvenile crap.

No inconvenience, what so ever. As I said, I got no use for..... private messaging some.

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Friday, June 18, 2010 3:21 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Pretty normal human mentality. Question is: will it ever change? And even if it does, will it change IN TIME?

Niki, I would like to believe we learn from our mistakes. Sadly when it comes to both war, and the extraction of natural resources we have a long.......long way to go.
Safety isn't obtained through war.

Resource extraction, and greed never ends well

-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Friday, June 18, 2010 3:30 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay Crappy, I hear your panic, anger and despair in every post. I understand. I don't know if you can hear this, but try. The wetlands WILL recover...or CAN...if they get some help. If they'd stop cutting off the Mississippi for human convenience, it would flow full-strength into the Gulf, eventually rebuilding the wetlands. Dunno how long "eventually" IS, but it would. I didn't know that before; I've been researching it after hearing that, and it's true. The biggest danger to the wetlands PERMANENTLY is development...they've lost thousands of square miles to development, and maybe they'll appreciate the wetlands after this enough to STOP developing it.

I truly thought they would be gone forever, and am relieved as hell to find that's not true. But the river can bring the materials and the algae and bacteria will grow again. How much of it they can save before this is all over will help.

As to wildlife; the brown pelly was all but extinct a few years back, down there. They brought in new birds and new chicks, and the pellies have been recovering BEAUTIFULLY until this hit. They'll come back again; we've got TONS of them and so do many other places. They'll relocate them again, have no fear.

The thing that bothers me most about the pellies is they intend to release them in FLORIDA! I don't know why, when they could send them elsewhere; if this thing gets further into the Gulf Current, it may well go all around Florida and up the Coast. Great...so they have to be rehabbed AGAIN? Seems to me they shouldn't be releasing them there until we know what's gonna happen. But they WILL come back in time.

MOST marine mammals out there are quickly learning to avoid the plumes and spills and go elsewhere. They're good at that. Once things get cleaned up, they'll come back.

The turtles are probably one of the biggest problems, next to oysters. They can't go elsewhere easily and they can't move fast enough to get away and have to spend a certain amount of time on the surface...plus there is one species which is especially endangered; we may lose them.

The gators have started moving North we were told; there are plenty of gators. The manatees are a problem, same reason as the turtles, but hopefully it won't get that far inland.

Fishing is probably the most serious thing. Fishermen, like those in Prince William Sound, are out of work...some permanently. Ditto oysters. Those will all come back in time, but how MUCH time nobody can say, and meanwhile people have lost their livelihood.

What does it matter if the relief wells come in? It matters hugely. If it keeps gushing, it has a bigger chance of getting into the Gulf Current, in which case, the entire Eastern Seabord may be affected in one way or another. It needs to be stopped as soon as possible; the land will recover--it may well recover in a different way than it is now, but all I've learned has taught me that I was wrong, it's not going to destroy everything permanently. Nature CAN come back from even this; as long as it's stopped.

And the relief wells are most likely slated to come in down far enough to be below the underground blowout, so they will relieve pressure, at least enough to stop the leaking on the seabed and let them close off the gusherfuck.

I'm pretty sure BP knows about the underground blowout and that the article in the first post of this thread and the thread I put up is correct about that being the reason they stopped trying to cap it. Now we have to look to the relief wells.

AND we need to look--no, not just look--DO SOMETHING about our energy usage. Conservation, new energy resources; it won't happen in my lifetime, but it HAS TO. Oil isn't just finite, it will always be dangerous and this can happen again as it happened before and happens all the time.

But it's actually not as BAD as you think. Horrific, disasterous, ruinous to so many people who have to earn a living and to so much wildlife, but it's not the end of the world. I HATE saying that, because I've had to start avoiding the news and changing channels fast when they show photos, especially of wildlife. I hate this every bit as much as you do, but I'm learning the truth as much as I can.

By the way, I saw Jay on an Anderson Cooper special last night about the bird rehabbing; their survival rate when they get them in is 80% now, which is PHENOMENAL compared to what we could do 35 years ago! They've taken in 665 live birds; collected 885 dead, and 42 have already been released.

Yes, it's a tiny fraction of what's died, but it's a population--those 665 have an 80% chance; that's over 532 birds which will be released. That's a population by itself from which to start, as most are adult, breeding-age birds.

If you can possibly get out of your panic mode just a bit, here's the report I caught two days ago, if you want a TINY glimmer of hope, you can see what they're doing (and see "my" Jay at the end, too).

All hope is not lost. Hang in there.

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Friday, June 18, 2010 3:31 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Nuke will maybe turn it to glass, or make 1000 more leaks (which is probably the plan).

Nuke em till they glow was my govt motto, with nukes targeted at downtown UK and West Germany.

Pentagon already nuked USA 1050 times, not counting DU, X-rays (gamma rays) and naked Fatherland Security checkpoints.

Bend over sheeple, Uncle Scam is comin!

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Friday, June 18, 2010 3:55 PM

Quote:

Your reading comprehension skills absolutely suck if all you got from my post is that it doesn't matter unless a catastrophe is close to MY home.

So you DIDN'T mean it when you said

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I've heard about the list you linked, an my response is - so what ?

Simply by gauging in barrels of oil leaked isn't the sole determining factor in measuring the severity. The burning wells in Kuwait and the damaged valves on tankers are nothing compared to the shattered well, a mile under the surface of the Gulf.

You dismissed entirely the ecological impact of the Gulf Oil Spill of 1991, saying in a comprehensively dismissive fashion,

"so what?",

and then claiming that that spill was "nothing".

You need to educate yourself, especially since you've so often claimed to care so very deeply about the Iraqi people.

From Wiki:

Quote:
The Gulf War oil spill is regarded as the second largest oil spill in history, resulting from the 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, when Iraqi forces opened valves at the Sea Island oil terminal and dumped oil from several tankers into the Persian Gulf. The apparent strategic goal was to foil a potential landing by US Marines. Coalition forces determined the main source of oil to be the Sea Island terminal in Kuwait. The oil spill, which began on January 23, 1991, caused considerable damage to wildlife in the Persian Gulf, especially in areas surrounding Kuwait and Iraq. Estimates on the volume spilled usually range around 11 million barrels (462 million gallons or 1.75 billion liters); the slick reached a maximum size of 101 by 42 miles (4242 square miles or 10860 km²) and was 5 inches (13 cm) thick in some areas. Despite the uncertainty surrounding the size of the spill, figures place it several times the size (in gallons spilled) of the Exxon Valdez oil spill, and almost twice the size of the 1979 Ixtoc I blowout in the Gulf of Mexico.

Quote:
I won't truly START to feel any sense of reassurance until that well is at least contained. And even then, I'll always wonder if the other shoe is gonna drop, and something truly catastrophic happens down there.

And that's the price you pay for your idiotic "Drill, Baby, Drill!" campaign chant. You KNEW this was the danger. You KNEW this could very well happen. You denied it, dismissed it when it happened elsewhere, and derided and denigrated anyone who tried to warn you of the very real danger of that other shoe dropping, of something truly catastrophic happening down there.

This is a direct result of the policies that YOU endorsed, that YOU said were safe. You've no one to blame but yourself.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 18, 2010 3:59 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

No, Mike, he didn't know. Nobody did--except the oil companies, hell, maybe not even they knew. But they could easily suspect, and they had more knowledge than any of us except the scientists--the rest of us could only guess.

We don't have to guess now, do we?

Maybe we'll learn something. Or not...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Friday, June 18, 2010 9:08 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The problem is that some things will NEVER be safe. Nuclear energy is one of them, deepwater drilling is another, and using our oceans and atmosphere as infinite dumping ground is a third.

It's like Oppyh said "How do you fuck up a planet beyond comprehension? Check back 50 years from now to find out."

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 1:54 AM

America loves a winner!

Valves on ships and wells on land can be capped, shut off far easier than a shattered well bore a mile under the surface of the water.

Some things I just expect folks to know, when it's clear, they must have it explained to them, over and over and over again.

And even then, they still don't get it.

Quote:
And that's the price you pay for your idiotic "Drill, Baby, Drill!" campaign chant. You KNEW this was the danger. You KNEW this could very well happen. You denied it, dismissed it when it happened elsewhere, and derided and denigrated anyone who tried to warn you of the very real danger of that other shoe dropping, of something truly catastrophic happening down there.

This is a direct result of the policies that YOU endorsed, that YOU said were safe. You've no one to blame but yourself.

Wow. I guess you really told me, huh ?

I love how you tell others what they knew, and ignore the fact that 1000's of wells have been drilled for decades, and THIS has never happened.

We don't know exactly what happened, but you're ready to give up your car, your utilities, and might as well toss indoor plumbing while you're at it. Complete your idiot rant towards Unibomber status.

Or more likely, you don't believe anything you said, you just like being a dick head for the sake of being a dick head.

Probably more the latter. I don't see your fat ass giving up modern living any time soon.

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 4:05 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rappy, while I agree with you that this IS a disaster which might become our American Chernobyl, it's a mistake to say that "nothing like this has ever happened before". The Ixtoc I spill clocked in at 140 million gallons. The problem is that every time you handle oil, it can spill. The Alaskan pipeline ALSO just spilled. Just a month ago, a tanker which took a short-cut through the Great Barrier Reef foundered. With all of the oil being drilled and moved here and there, enough oil will spill and over time and the environment will be damaged more than it can recover. And that's not counting the damage from burning the stuff. (And coal too... let's not forget coal.) I imagine in some distant future, as archaeologists drill their way through our strata, they'll see a geologic signature of oil soot, coal soot, vanadium, nickel, sulfate, high concentrations of carbon dioxide, rapid warming, ocean acidification, soil erosion, and vast beds of concrete and steel and shake their heads and say Very clever species. But not very intelligent. Because we're wrecking the only home we'll ever know.

I know that you don't think global warming and overpopulation are real, but this spill - as horrific as it is- is child's play by comparison when it comes to species and habitat loss. I just want to put my head through a wall sometimes because we Americans waste about half of the energy that we consume, and we now have the technological capability of true green energy: solar cells have reached the breakthrough point where they produce more energy over their lifetime than is required to make them. So why can't we seem to PREVENT disasters instead of inviting them? I don't know; I know that we CAN do better than we are now, but we're not.

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 4:42 AM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
When is Obama going to turn the oil to wine?

Probably about the time your precious free market cleans it all up!

Still wating... DANG!

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

Which do you wager will happen first? The free market clearing this up or the armed revolution he keeps crowing about?

Still waiting...for both...DANG!

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Saturday, June 19, 2010 4:51 AM