Quote:

---

If the tax cuts become law, the next two years will be the best in living memory for many wealthy Americans to shield their income and fortunes

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Niki2:Not that it needs mentioning, but the tax cut LAW was set to expire after ten years. Ergo, that LAW was a tax cut. It was to be in place no longer than the end of 2010.

They have now written a new LAW giving people tax cuts for two more years. When that runs out, unless they write another LAW to give people more tax cuts, they LEGALLY will run out.

Can you grasp that one, Raptor?

---

Quote:

---

So you maintain that Bush never cut taxes, right

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Niki2:
Not that it needs mentioning, but the tax cut LAW was set to expire after ten years. Ergo, that LAW was a tax cut. It was to be in place no longer than the end of 2010.

They have now written a new LAW giving people tax cuts for two more years. When that runs out, unless they write another LAW to give people more tax cuts, they LEGALLY will run out.

Can you grasp that one, Raptor?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

---

Sure, but you have the assumption the government owns our money and decides how much we keep. Okay. What is the baseline? 50% of everything and when we pay less it is a cut? 45%? what is this mandatory rate the Federal government gets to keep? Why is that okay with you? You can always pay more taxes if you want too, check the box and pay more....However something tells me you don't pay a dime in income takes...My guess is that you get an EIC credit

It is hilarious that those who pay nothing have no problem telling those that do to pay more...Fucking hilarious.

Quote:

---

It is hilarious that those who pay nothing have no problem telling those that do to pay more...Fucking hilarious.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Niki2:

Quote:

---

you just first RAISE taxes, and have folks pay at that rate, before you can cut them, and claim taxes were 'cut'.

---

Stupid statement.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So you maintain that Bush never cut taxes, right?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:

Quote:

---

It is hilarious that those who pay nothing have no problem telling those that do to pay more...Fucking hilarious.

---

I agree. Only that applies to corporations and the wealthy, who do pay less than the middle class and often pay... nothing. Yep, nothing.

So, what do you say to THAT?

---

Quote:

---

those who pay nothing have no problem telling those that do to pay more

---

Quote:

---

The rich pay more than their fair share ( what ever the hell that's suppose to mean ). They pay the freight for most of the taxes paid in this country, and by more than they earn.
The rich pay more than their fair share ( what ever the hell that's suppose to mean ). They pay the freight for most of the taxes paid in this country, and by more than they earn.

---

Quote:

---

Thanks to the 15% tax rate on long term capital gains, the 400 highest earners pay a lower effective federal income tax rate than ordinary rich folks. In 2007 (the last year the IRS has published data for) the 400 derived two thirds of their average adjusted gross income of $345 million from capital gains and paid an average effective rate of just 16.6%. Taxpayers earning $1 million to $5 million, who get more of their income from salary and other “ordinary” income taxed at a top 35% rate, paid an effective tax rate of 24%.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Since the bottom 98% have seen their "wealth" increase by less than 3% in the last decade, while the top 2% have seen their wealth INCREASE by over 250% in that same time period, I'd say it's clear who isn't paying "their fair share".

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
urgh. Too much reality for rappy.

---

Quote:

---

The Government Accountability Office said 72 percent of all foreign corporations and about 57 percent of U.S. companies doing business in the United States paid no federal income taxes for at least one year between 1998 and 2005.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
urgh. Too much reality for rappy.

---

You seem to have a problem w/ your brain being missing.

Quote:

---

The Government Accountability Office said 72 percent of all foreign corporations and about 57 percent of U.S. companies doing business in the United States paid no federal income taxes for at least one year between 1998 and 2005.

---

So ? What's that have to do w/anything ? You make it seem as if they pay NO taxes, what so ever. Fact is, the US has the 2nd highest tax rate for corporations in the industrial world. Behind Japan, if I recall correctly. These red herrings the Left loves to toss out, these lengthy diatribes and lectures on how little we are taxed are complete and total con games.

---

Quote:

---

You can't TAX this nation into prosperity. That's the flaw you on the Left simply refuse to acknowledge and get through your skulls.

---

Quote:

---

Taxing Warren Buffett or Bill Gates more won't give you or anyone you know 1 god damn thing more.

---

Quote:

---

The REAL issue is out of control Gov't spending.

---

Quote:

---

So ? What's that have to do w/anything ? You make it seem as if they pay NO taxes, what so ever. Fact is, the US has the 2nd highest tax rate for corporations in the industrial world. Behind Japan, if I recall correctly. These red herrings the Left loves to toss out, these lengthy diatribes and lectures on how little we are taxed are complete and total con games.

---

Quote:

---

But of the 275 Fortune 500 companies that made a profit each year from 2001 to 2003 and for which adequate information to draw conclusions is publicly available, only a small proportion paid federal income taxes anywhere near that statutory 35 percent tax rate. The vast majority paid considerably less.

In fact, in 2002 and 2003, the average effective tax rate for all of these 275 companies was less than half the statutory 35 percent rate. Over the 2001-2003 period, effective tax rates ranged from a low of -59.6 percent for Pepco Holdings to a high of 34.5 percent for CVS.

Over the three-year period, the average effective rate for all 275 companies dropped by a fifth, from 21.4 percent in 2001 to 17.2 percent in 2002-2003.

Eighty-two of the 275 companies, almost a third of the total, paid zero or less in federal income taxes in at least one year from 2001 to 2003. In the years they paid no income tax, these companies earned $102 billion in pretax U.S. profits. But instead of paying $35.6 billion in income taxes as the statutory 35 percent corporate tax rate seems to require, these companies generated so many excess tax breaks that they received outright tax rebate checks from the U.S. Treasury, totaling $12.6 billion. These companies' "negative tax rates" meant that they made more after taxes than before taxes in those no-tax years.

Twenty-eight corporations enjoyed negative federal income tax rates over the entire 2001-2003 period. These companies, whose pretax U.S. profits totaled $44.9 billion over the three years, included, among others: Pepco Holdings (-59.6 percent tax rate), Prudential Financial (-46.2 percent), ITT Industries (-22.3 percent), Boeing (-18.8 percent), Unisys (-16.0 percent), Fluor (-9.2 percent) and CSX (-7.5 percent), the company previously headed by current Secretary of the Treasury John Snow.

In 2003 alone, 46 companies paid zero or less in federal income taxes. These 46 companies told their shareholders they earned U.S. pretax profits in 2003 of $42.6 billion, yet they received tax rebates totaling $5.4 billion. Almost as many companies, 42, paid no tax in 2002, reporting $43.5 billion in pretax profits, yet receiving $4.9 billion in tax rebates. From 2001 to 2003, the number of no-tax companies jumped from 33 to 46, an increase of 40 percent.

In 2001, the Treasury paid corporations $40 billion in tax refunds, a third more than the 1998-2000 average.

Then in 2002 and 2003, after the law was changed to expand tax subsidies and make it easier for corporations to carry back excess tax breaks to earlier years, corporate tax refunds skyrocketed to an average of $63 billion a year - more than double the 1998-2000 average.

Corporations are now paying the lowest levels of taxes in the post-World War II era. In fiscal 2002 and 2003, federal corporate incomes taxes dropped to their lowest sustained level as a share of the economy since World War II. Only a single year during the early Reagan administration was lower.

---

Quote:

---

Several of us have made the same points repeatedly in this thread, and proven them with facts and figures. Yet the only reaction is to repeat falsehoods or run away. Why bother trying beyond the initial argument which shows them wrong?

---

Quote:

---

You're not bringing 'facts and figures' You're only bringing the cherry picked bits you want folks to see, and ignoring the rest.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, Rappy- last call to set the record straight. Please being us those facts and figures and anything else you feel we have ignored... preferably something rooted in reality and not just a Wulfie-style slew of buzzwords. Be prepared to explain and discuss.

---

Quote:

---

It's a moot point. You erroneously think that that the 'rich' don't pay most of the taxes in this country.

---

Quote:

---

Rappy- that's not what I think. Never said it. My point, however, was that the rich (and corporations) don't even pay as much BY PERCENTAGE as the middle class. Got it now? I mean, if you're going to argue with me, at least respond to what I said, not to some misunderstanding.

---

Quote:

---

Hell no, it's not even remotely close.

---