Your kind of Sci-Fi by dreamtrove

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Your kind of Sci-Fi

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Saturday, January 22, 2011 22:41
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VIEWED: 2777
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Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:54 AM

I love firefly, and it's origin animes, and predecessor shows, Farscape, and Blake's 7 which was perhaps the original "were a band of criminals with a spaceship on the run from the law" style show, unless it was this one: Dr. Who.

My dad first showed my this show, many, many years ago. The doctor is really a meddlesome criminal from his own world, and sometimes is with, and sometimes against the laws of the planets, usually earth, that he visits. Anyway, there is a constant moral ambiguity to it but I realized something else was driving me towards this show, which, sure, can be hokey and contrived in spots, even in it's modern incarnation.

It deals with a lot of what ifs in a slightly golden age classic sf way. I just watched the episode with the Library in the little girls head, and it occurred to me, even when the through story is losing me, it delivers new worlds and new situations, and makes me think. Sure, there are plenty of barbarians at the gate style eps, conventional TV thought, that sort of insidious omnipresent message of fiction Frem was talking about, but rarely if ever do the authorities save us, usually we must save ourselves, as in the other outlaw shows, and a recent Donna-focused episode made that point, that the Doctor himself is a tool of solution, and not, ideally, a deus ex machina, he requires constant direction from common humans to do the right things (as also with the Jenny episode) that said, I haven't seen season five yet, and so spoilers... I don't think anything above is one.

Anyway, what's your kind of Sci-Fi?

Yes, I know, but its a real world event. Shows, stories in various forms, appear, and they are cultural events, like Firefly.

Thing is, an awful lot of what's posted in RWED isn't really real world event, it's opinion, and often not opinion specifically about an event, and even when it is, it's often just a thinly disguised soapbox for an already held belief.

Rap made a comment about this on a recent thread, so I figured it needed a decent answer, and this is it. "Hatian Revolution" is a real world event, "meteor headed for earth" is a real world event, "scientists discover fountain of youth" is a real world event, and "new sci-fi show" is a real world event. "I have an opinion on a wedge issue" is not, even if there is an event to use as an excuse, because there are millions of personal and individual events daily. "the other side sucks" is not either, because every day thousands of pundits say something on one side or the other, there are always elections.

All of that said, we're not purists, and we have no rules, but we are also people, and if we get too much into politics, particularly of a partisan or left/right side nature, then we get angry and insular and start behaving like Whatever that african pygmy animal (hedgehog, mole rat, something like that, but I know those two are wrong) that can't stand its own kind.,,

Anyway, for sanity's sake, we need some non-partisan, non-political, threads.

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:03 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I'll play.

The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Can't believe they cancelled it.

It's like any show with actual content, interesting stories, gets canned.

But Jersey Shore just keeps right on going...

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

P.S I'm all out of fuken bubblegum.

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:29 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I like shows where moral ambiguity is studied.

I like it when my heroes aren't perfect, and my villains aren't magically evil.

(Caveat - I enjoyed Joker in the recent Batman, but he never came across as a person. He rather seemed to be the personification of an idea. Otherwise, he was magically evil. However, he personified ideas so well that I gave him a pass.)

I like shows where consequences carry from one episode to the next. Where even 'good' actions can have bad results, and bad actions can have good results.

I like it when characters grow over the course of a series, but are otherwise consistent.

I like sufficient action to keep me entertained.

I like it when the preposterousness of Sci-Fi is presented in a way that helps me to swallow it.

I like my Sci-Fi a bit dark.

I like it when the mood of the show varies from time to time, so that there is a release of tension.

There's blessed little out there that has all of these traits. Babylon 5 had most of it, most of the time. Some episodes were tripe, of course, and the show creator robbed other works of fiction blatantly and repeatedly. But overall, good job.

BSG was a good show, but they forgot to vary the mood and release tension. That was its greatest flaw. Watching a BSG marathon is typically an emotionally difficult experience, because things get worse for everyone fairly consistently until the end.

Firefly was a good show. I think Joss killed it when he killed Wash. It was like snuffing out the light in the room. Sometimes I wish there had been no BDM, because then Firefly would have remained an untarnished jewel in my mind. It never had the chance to have a really bad or seriously disappointing episode during the series run. It didn't last long enough to fail me, until the movie came out.

Similarly, I often wish there had been no Crusade or follow-ons to B5, because the magic was gone. The creator never managed to recapture that *something* that made his show special. I think he hit his apex somewhere near the end of the series, and I think he knows it. It must be painful for him to have his best work behind him, and not even be sure as to why.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 7:32 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I like sci-fi that isn't boring, predictable, or illogical. I like characters that are multi-dimensional, have the ability to grow, and have some personality traits and/or quirks that I can relate to. I usually have to care about the characters to like anything, even if the "effects" are great. I like sci-fi movies and tv shows equally if they're done right. Of all the various sub-genres of sci-fi, I tend to like time travel and alternate realities the best.

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
I like sci-fi that isn't boring, predictable, or illogical. I like characters that are multi-dimensional, have the ability to grow, and have some personality traits and/or quirks that I can relate to. I usually have to care about the characters to like anything, even if the "effects" are great. I like sci-fi movies and tv shows equally if they're done right.

Says it for me. Tho' I'll suspend believe for the "illogical" if it's fun.

There are so many, it's hard to choose. Comes to mind:

V for Vendetta (which I just LIKE, despite anything anyone says)

Avatar

The Abyss

Deep Impact

Starman

Eureka

Anyone remember "Enemy Mine"?

Torchwood

Dr. Who

Contact

2001/2010

Galaxy Quest

Shit...there are just too many...

Of course we could get into books, but we have before: Everything by David Webber, Timothy Zahn, Aasimov, Heinlen, Herbert, the Dragon Series by McCaffrey, as a start...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:12 PM

DREAMTROVE

T:SCC was potentially awesome, but they became unfocused like Caprica, and drifted.

The first thing for TSCC was to realize the the most interesting character was Cameron, and tin man complex which I found as an upgrade on mr. Data, who was also interesting, but now taken to a more morally ambiguous world.

I agree with everything anthony just said, and its true, theres not much of it, and bsg has much the same problem for me as b5, the tension is only tense and powerful in contrast.

and jong also,

I like a lot of dark noir chaos stuff, blade runner, 12monkeys. Etc.

I also like niki's suggestions, especially in the books.

Which avatar?

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:18 PM

CANTTAKESKY

I loved Dark Angel. That's maybe my next favorite after Firefly. I also loved Wonderfalls, though not scifi.

The rest of my list is in my profile. Nothing surprising.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:36 PM

WHOZIT

I'm liking "Being Human" so far, it's the Canadian version, I haven't seen the British version. It's well written and not to dark.

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:00 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
I'm liking "Being Human" so far, it's the Canadian version, I haven't seen the British version. It's well written and not to dark.

Hello,

I watched the first episode and remain intrigued.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:10 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Firefly was a good show. I think Joss killed it when he killed Wash. It was like snuffing out the light in the room.

Sniffle.

That was a pretty awful thing to do in the BDM. Curse Joss.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:35 PM

DREAMTROVE

Someone just told me that one of the plans was a second season, funded from the movie profits, but they didn't really roll in. This would explain the killing off of characters: Some people weren't available to do a second season, or weren't up for it, and so their characters were killed.

Just a thought, maybe somebody have more information.

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Friday, January 21, 2011 3:54 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Someone just told me that one of the plans was a second season, funded from the movie profits, but they didn't really roll in. This would explain the killing off of characters: Some people weren't available to do a second season, or weren't up for it, and so their characters were killed.

Just a thought, maybe somebody have more information.

Hello,

I think Joss has a history of this sort of thing. I don't even think he understands why he does it. He just does it and then rationalizes it afterward.

"Oh, I needed to create a sense of danger," or "Oh, in an imagined future where this comes back to TV, an actor whose future schedule I have no way of predicting might not be available for the rigors of an imagined shooting schedule."

Yeah...

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Friday, January 21, 2011 5:48 AM

DREAMTROVE

Well, it happened on Buffy when people who wouldn't commit to another season got killed off. I think it was partly temper.

I remember when phooey, the character from Mash who left, his character was killed because he had a fight with the producer.

Recently, on Dr. who, a character was permanently deleted, and I smelled something similar. It's the "we're not just taking you out of the show, we're making sure you never come back" but I don't know the story behind it. I know that they did this to an assistant (dr. Who slang for sidekick) in the 1980s because he showed up to work drunk.

Joss killed a character on angel for showing up stoned, I'm too lazy to post spoilers cause i need to get up, so I'm being vague.

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Friday, January 21, 2011 6:42 AM

BYTEMITE

Well, to be fair, there's been times he's brought characters back AFTER killing them too.

As far as I know both the characters killed in the movie weren't because Joss had a problem with the actors, in fact Tudyk has expressed a desire to appear in the next seasons somehow anyway, and it has to be noted his character is the in-universe author commentary/joke track. Joss may have been concerned about Ron and Ron's schedule though, he's approaching retirement age and all.

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Friday, January 21, 2011 9:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA

The official term for that is Bridge Dropping.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DroppedABridgeOnHim

Formerly known as McLeaned.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/McLeaned

Basically the same thing.

-F

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Friday, January 21, 2011 9:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Anthony, Joss has always killed off characters. My opinion is he does it because on TV we never EXPECT major characters to be killed off, and he’s reminding us that a) He doesn’t play by those games, B) Firefly isn’t typical fare; C) His mind thinks that way. I’ve never liked his propensity to kill people I’ve become invested in, but I accept it as Joss’ style. I didn’t like him poking out Zander’s eye, either, I might say...

Given it’s his pattern, I see that as far more likely than anything to do with schedules. DT makes a good point about characters disappearing; it's happened many times. But notice they do so because of contract disputes or unacceptable behavior. I think Glass and Tudyk, given all the background stuff I’ve seen/read, would have stayed on if there was going to be more if they could have. The group has stayed somewhat close—-or had at the time of the things I’ve seen and heard, and all of them said both how great it was to work together and how fantastic the show was. I’d put it more down to “Joss’ Way”, myself.

ETA: Liked the articles. Personally, I prefer "McLeaned", 'cuz that was the first time I'd encountered it, and it was a shock.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, January 21, 2011 11:05 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER

huh, I thought I replied to this thread already, guess I didn't or maybe it got lost.

Well, I might be repeating some folks, but what I like most is characters. I like interesting characters that develop over time. Good characters is probably even more important than plot to me.

My favorite TV show is Firefly and my favorite anime is Outlaw Star.

I also really enjoyed Stargate SG-1 but that might be due to sentimental value. When I left for college I didn't see my sis and mother so much, but I started to get my sister the seasons for Christmases, Birthdays and the like, and we would basically marathon them while I was home on breaks. It's sort of a brother sister thing we do, something I used to take for granted when I saw her more often and she irritated the hell out of me.

I can't stand it when a character just kind dies. Shock value is cheap IMO. I'm not as angry that Wash died as much as how he died. I think it would have been better if he had been mortally wounded during the epic flight scene and just barely managed to crash land them before dieing. I don't care that it's less realistic, this is Sci Fi!

Oh, another thing I think is important to Sci Fi, the soundtrack. Music can enhance or ruin the movie/show I'm watching. This causes me to cringe at the openings of some anime's... but the music of most animes I've seen/heard has been pretty good. There's a lot of awful opening songs though, but you can always fast forward through opening credits.

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Friday, January 21, 2011 1:18 PM

DREAMTROVE

Ive been meaning to watch outlaw star for obvious reasons but I don't have season one.

sg1 was just good. A lot of shows have really strong openings, this puts you in the right mood, but then the show has to fulfill the promise of the world that you've just been carrying into. Those credits and theme are a threshold, but they're also an advertisement for what's on the other side. As long as thats on target, it's all good.

As for killing characters, I get annoyed at random deaths, but also overdramatized ones that say "this is the ep where Tom dies." I prefer," this is where Tom takes an enormous risk and might die,"

Specifically, the fact that Alan returns in dollhouse is not really proof. Buffy was going to continue to season 8 without Sarah, and Faith was going to be slayer. The network had doubts about the idea of Faith the Vampire Slayer, and ultimately, Eliza bailed while Joss was waiting for a response because she was offered Tru Calling. Joss was very upset at the time, but it was too late to kill Faith even if he had wanted to, I don't know, he might have. At any rate, this did not stop him from hiring her back.

In angel...

Select to view spoiler:

Also, he killed Fred, and then hired her back. I don't know the issue, its possible it was just the end of the show, and didn't matter

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Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:56 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I watched the first episode and remain intrigued.

I just watched the first episode too and found it much much better than I had expected (cause it was aired on Syfy).

Have SyFy shows been better in recent years? I could never stomach anything they did back when Firefly was on.

Or is this show an exception because it is not produced by SyFy per se?

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:29 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I watched the first episode and remain intrigued.
I just watched the first episode too and found it much much better than I had expected (cause it was aired on Syfy).

Have SyFy shows been better in recent years? I could never stomach anything they did back when Firefly was on.

Or is this show an exception because it is not produced by SyFy per se?

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

Hello,

I think most good shows are exceptions, in any age.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:41 PM

PRETTYXPISTOL

I'm not a "sci-fi" fan I like my typical doctor, cop, and lawyer shows. The only few Sci-fi shows I have gotten into is because of my brother. He introduced me to Stargate SG-1 and Firefly. I did watch Stargate: Atlantis and Stargate: Universe on my own and it did take much convincing to watch the Star Trek movie.

[Inara: It's all right. I mostly keep to myself. When I'm not whoring.]

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