REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

GOP Presidential Debate

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Saturday, August 13, 2011 08:15
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Friday, August 12, 2011 2:58 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg




Ron Paul 2012!

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"




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Friday, August 12, 2011 3:19 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Even Bill Maher likes Ron Paul.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, August 12, 2011 3:22 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...




Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, August 12, 2011 3:55 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ron Paul 2012!


Who?

Oh, the funny looking Senator from Kentucky. I don't think he's running.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Friday, August 12, 2011 5:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


He's from Texas (or was that a snark?), and I only watched the first few minutes, during which he made some very good points. We SHOULD have pursued bin Laden rather than stay in Afghanistan once we'd botched that, in my opinion. IF we'd done it differently and actually HELPED Afghanistan, I'd be cheering. But we haven't. And he WAS found in a country we give billions to.

As usual with Ron Paul, some of what he says is spot-on reality, along with the things he says that are absolutely crackers. I'm not surprised Maher likes him; I feel the same way about HIM!

IS Paul running or not? I haven't kept track.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, August 12, 2011 5:20 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Nicki, in you opinion, what did he say in the debate that you find to be "crackers"?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, August 12, 2011 6:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Like I said, Wulf, I didn't bother to listen past the first minute or two, during which time I agreed with him. The remarks that are crazy have been made many times by him in many venues, do we really need to go into them again?

The problem with citing specific examples of his positions which most reasoning people find crazy is that you would agree with him on almost all of them (if not all). He has some good IDEAS, but they don't pertain to the real world. He's very good at sounding logical, but he's not. He sees conspiracies where there are none. He also thinks the "War on Christmas" is real, and that the separation of church and state is a myth. He believes the founding fathers wanted to discriminate on behalf of certain religions, and that morality cannot be accomplished absent Christianity. He wants to end all paper money and revert to a monetary system based on gold. He is against the Civil Rights Act, believing the rights of all private property owners, even those whose actions decent people find abhorrent, must be respected.

In any number of areas Ron Paul ignores Constitutional realities that do not fit his preconceived notions about what constitutes 'constitutional.' He fails to understand that the Constitution allows mutual defense treaties between allies, meaning of course that in the event one of those allies is attacked the U.S. is automatically obligated to provide military assistance.

He’d abolish the FDA and other Consumer Protection Groups. He's a racist (which you no doubt will deny, tho' you'll probably agree with his statements, which are racist): "I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal." "Only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions."

He doesn't believe in evolution: "I think it’s a theory: The Theory of Evolution. And I don’t accept it, you know, as a theory."

Now, I'm sure you agree with all of that, which to me is an indication that you're as crazy as he is, or don't understand the realities of life, which makes you as extreme and unrealistic as he is.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, August 12, 2011 12:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I'll make a deal with ya, Wulfie. You get Ron Paul the nomination, and I'll vote for him.

Of course, if you DON'T get him the nomination, you have to vote for Obama.

Sound like a fair bet?


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Friday, August 12, 2011 3:06 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I have never witnessed Ron Paul saying anything racist. There were various publications with racist content whose articles were attributed to him, but he has consistently denied penning them and has spoken against their content. I suppose it comes down to what you believe.

I think that Ron Paul will never be a serious contender, which I find unfortunate. I believe he is the only candidate who might put an end to perpetual war and military adventurism. He has never wavered from his stance on our use of the military, and I think he honestly believes what he says.

It may well be that he is the only honest candidate to run for presidential office in my lifetime. If nothing else, most of his opponents will agree that he is honestly bonkers. You'd have to be, in order to sit in that chair and vote as he does, passing up countless opportunities to ingratiate himself to people who might bring him wealth, power, and respect.

--Anthony

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Friday, August 12, 2011 3:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Anthony, that's why my challenge to Wulfie is a win-win proposition for me. If Ron Paul were to get the Republican nomination, I'd actually consider voting for him, because it would likely bring more "change" than four more years of Obama would.

And of course, if he DOESN'T get the nomination, Wulfie has to vote for Obama, which I'm sure he couldn't bring himself to do.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, August 12, 2011 11:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Of course they won't nominate Ron Paul, and here's why - cause to them he's just bait.

It's like that one car, highly advertised, on a dealers lot that is an especially good deal - now, IF it even exists, which in many cases it doesn't, there's no way in hells creation the dealer is going to sell you THAT car, nu-uh, no way, it exists only to get you onto his lot so he can sell you some useless, broken, overpriced piece of shit in a classic bait-n-switch.

And if by some miracle of chicanery you *did* manage to make off with that car, then he'd be completely screwed, since without that big shiny piece of bait hanging out there, folks would take one good look at that mourners row of overpriced trash and head for the hills.

So not just no, but HELL no, will the Republicans *ever* give Ron Paul the nomination, but nor will they kick him out, and that is exactly why, he serves as bait to get their hooks into folks who'd otherwise take one look at the insane, evil scum hiding behind him and run like hell - folks come to listen to Ron, and wind up serving the agenda of those fucking jackboots in hopes it might support him, Hint: It won't.

Worse is that his presence fucking enables them, and for *THAT*, smart as he might be about anything else, he's a goddamn fool, and no way on this earth am I going to support him so long as doing so enables THEM.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, August 13, 2011 1:34 AM

DREAMTROVE


the comments niki just posted are inaccurately attributed to Ron Paul. We hashed this out ad naseumm in an earlier thread.

They appeared in contributions to the Ron Paul newsletter which is a publication run by Lew Rockwell, but it would be wrong to attribute them to Lew Rockwell as well. The newsletter was being managed by a staffer whose name escapes me at the moment, but it was in the earlier thread. He was not a Ron Paul staffer, and in fact, turned out to be working for the G H W Bush '88 campaign at the time. Ron Paul was running opposite Bush, and the pieces were written by the Bush staffer in an attempt to discredit the Ron Paul campaign.

The evidence on this point is extremely conclusive, as in, easily would stand up in a court of law. I think the lapse in judgment here was Lew Rockwell trusted this person to run the newsletter during the campaign, while Paul and Rockwell (paul's chief of staff) were on the campaign trail. Whether the writer was a racist or not, the pieces were written to discredit the campaign. (think how easy it would be for one of us, if we had someone else's password, to copy and paste some rant from stormfront.org into someone else's post) sure, they could edit it out, unless they were taking a break from the forum.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, August 13, 2011 7:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Anthony, you don't find statements like "I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal" and "Only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions" to be racist? Seriously?
Quote:

On June 4, 2004, while other members of Congress honored the 40th anniversary of the historic act, Paul stood on the floor of the House of Representatives and delivered a diatribe against integration, claiming it violated the Constitution “while diminishing individual freedoms.”

“The Civil Rights Act of 1964 not only violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty; it also failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society,” Paul declared.

Not a surprising statement from a man who is touted on white supremacist web sites as their candidate for President. http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/40855

I realize Paul is an avowed believer in "individual liberty", but this is another place where I feel his ideas are divorced from how the world really IS. No, the Civil Rights Act didn't fix everything, but I don't think its goal was what he says; I think it was about civil RIGHTS, for everyone.
Quote:

On his “Hardball” show Friday, Matthews responded to Paul when he said he wouldn’t have voted for the Civil Rights act:
Quote:

I once knew a laundromat when I was in the Peace Corps training in Louisiana, in Baker, Louisiana. A laundromat had this sign on it in glaze, ‘whites only on the laundromat, just to use the laundromat machines. This was a local shop saying ‘no blacks allowed.’ You say that should be legal.
“That’s ancient history,” Paul said. “That’s over and done with.”

I also realize both he and his son think capitalism would have overcome racism eventually. I disagree, or at the very least, believe it would have taken a lot longer without the Civil Rights Act. Again; unrealistic.

He may be denying he wrote the columns now, but initially he SAID HE WROTE THEM:
Quote:

Paul's defenses of these and many other outrageous columns have raised more questions than they have answered. His initial reaction to this issue, when it was raised by an adversary in the 1996 congressional election, was to admit to having written the columns and to defend their content as insignificant. As Matt Welch pointed out in a column for Reason, statements made at that time by both Paul and his campaign staff accepted responsibility for publishing the columns and failed in any way to indicate that he hadn't written them or even read them. In fact, according to a contemporaneous report in the Dallas Morning News:
Quote:

Dr. Paul denied suggestions that he was a racist and said he was not evoking stereotypes when he wrote the columns. He said they should be read and quoted in their entirety to avoid misrepresentation.
However, in 2008, Paul claimed that the columns, which he had said that he had written, which were written in the first person and which included references to his family life and other personal touches, had been ghost-written by someone of whose identity he was somehow uncertain. He claimed that it was completely plausible that he would allow people he did not know to author such columns for him, and that he would go on to publish them without prior review to his supporters in newsletters bearing his name in their titles. Such defenses by Dr. Paul insult those who legitimately want information about this troubling side of his record. Paul's answers to these legitimate question do not treat with appropriate gravity a very serious matter. They are not only inconsistent, they are self-contradictory. They are not only implausible, they are impossible. http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2011/05/unanswered-questions-why-ron-p
auls.html

Quote:

Paul has previously admitted to writing the newsletters and defended the statements in 1996, then blamed them on an unnamed ghostwriter in 2001 and then denied any knowledge of them in 2008. http://www.wordofsouth.com/myblock/archive/index.php/t-85353.html
Quote:

in an interview with The Dallas Morning News published on May 22, 1996, Paul acknowledged writing in a 1992 issue of his newsletter http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_skeeter__080113_racist_ranting
s_in_o.htm

Quote:

Back in 1996, Paul narrowly eked out a congressional victory over Democrat Lefty Morris, who made the newsletters one of his main campaign issues, damning them both for their racial content and for their advocacy of drug legalization. At the time, Paul defended the statements that appeared under his name, claiming that they expressed his "philosophical differences" with Democrats. http://woldcnews.com/national/woldcnews/why-ron-pauls-racist-newslette
rs-matter/
either he wrote them (and since they were written as if from him, with personal touches, it's hard to believe he didn't), or else he never bothered to review what someone else wrote under his name. I don't find either possibility to be proof he wasn't condoning what was written, and what those newsletters contain is EXTREMELY racist.

As I've said before, I like the man for being up-front and I like some of his ideas. But I do not think they are viable in the real world. Whether he's lying about those writings or just didn't pay attention to what was written "by him", I don't like the implications. Personally, given his forthrightness, I think he did write them, they're just inconvenient now.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, August 13, 2011 7:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I believe he is the only candidate who might put an end to perpetual war and military adventurism. He has never wavered from his stance on our use of the military, and I think he honestly believes what he says.
Nah, there have been other candidates who are honest and would end the war in a heartbeat. Nader for one. I wonder what Ross Perot would have done?

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Saturday, August 13, 2011 7:54 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

So either he wrote them (and since they were written as if from him, with personal touches, it's hard to believe he didn't), or else he never bothered to review what someone else wrote under his name. I don't find either possibility to be proof he wasn't condoning what was written, and what those newsletters contain is EXTREMELY racist.

As I've said before, I like the man for being up-front and I like some of his ideas. But I do not think they are viable in the real world, but whether he's lying about those writings or just didn't pay attention to what was written "by him", I don't like the implications. Personally, given his forthrightness, I think he did write them, they're just inconvenient now.



I tend to agree with you on this part. I think he wrote them, and I think he finds that very inconvenient now, and has tried to find some sort of way to either deny authorship or distance himself from these statements.

It would actually be more refreshing to me if he were to stand up and say "I wrote these statements, and I did so out of ignorance, and I have since learned better, and I know now that I was wrong and that these statements do not reflect my feelings today."

Step forward, own it, apologize, you've grown and moved on, etc. End of story.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, August 13, 2011 8:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Paul has been supported by a number of people connected with white supremacy--their donations were not solicited, but that they've both spoken out in favor of him and donated to his campaigns would seem to indicate they see something in him they like.

He's also indicateda bent toward believing in conspiracy theories, which is easy to spot given his consistent believe in various conspiracy theories. I realize some here hold similar beliefs, but for me, this is further indication of ihs being out of touch with the real world.
Quote:

Congressman Paul: " He asked if there was an international conspiracy to overthrow our government. The answer is "Yes". I think there are 25,000 individuals that have used offices of powers, and they are in our Universities and they are in our Congresses, and they believe in One World Government. http://www.propagandamatrix.com/260903ronpaul.html has other theories about conspiracies which I find difficult to accept. I wouldn't vote for someone I believed saw conspiracies lurking around every corner.

And there's the question: IF he didn't write the articles in question, why did he admit to it initially and follow it up by saying they represented his philosophical differences, then later say they were insignificant? Why wouldn't he have said straight out in 1996 that he didn't write them?

There are just too many questions about him on several fronts to instill any trust in me of him as President.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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