The payroll tax cut by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The payroll tax cut

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, December 23, 2011 11:43
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Friday, December 23, 2011 11:17 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'm hearing all kinds of idiocy from the pundits about what happened. The main one is that the Republican party is tearing itself apart. Also that John Boehner is no good at his job, they just gave Obama "the best Xmas gift ever", and that this spells all kinds of things for the 2012 election (all of them bad for the Republicans).

It's all such bullshit to me. Boehner is stuck between a rock (the Tea Party hard liners) and a hard place (ACTUAL running of government, as in "compromise"). I'd defy anyone to do better with the albatross he's got hung around his neck. I hear left-wing pundits rattling about how Pelosi kept her people in check and all, but my gawd, if she'd faced what Boehner is facing, is anyone stupid enough to actually believe she'd be doing any better?

This may be a gift for Obama, but it's a small one and won't last to the elections; again, anyone who thinks so is deluding themselves. Americans have short memories...made obvious by the fact that they embraced Gingrich with open arms, as well as having been so quick to turn to the right when the Dems couldn't make everything hunky-dorey in two years after EIGHT years of the country being trashed! Given everything had to be a knock-down, drag-out fight to get ANYTHING done, of COURSE nothing major happened, with the filibuster being used every damned time. But many things will happen between now and November; one little quasi-victory will be long out of memory by then. If anyone noticed, it wasn't even a "gift" in the end; they got the provision requiring Obama to make a quick decision on whether or not to approve that goddamned pipeline out of it.

That the GOP is tearing itself apart, I do agree. Because of their fear, anger and short memories, people voted supposed "Republicans" into office from gut reactions, and now they're discovering their mistake. If they'd used their brains and thought about it just a bit, listening to all the idiocy tossed out by the Tea Party candidates back at the midterms should have told them what would come; now that it's here, they're all shocked and pissed off at the RIGHT again. My gawd, there are so many ignorant, unthinking people in this country! Even the GOP was stupid to ride the Tea Party coattails, which shows they're not much brighter.

If Americans on the right had half an ounce of brains, they'd ALL see just what a joke the 2012 Republican candidates are and realize they took a wrong turn in 2010--voting the way they did made the right think it had carte blanche, and just like anyone who thinks that, they pushed to the extreme and beyond. Their current slate of candidates should be screaming that at them, but it doesn't seem as if they're listening, from the way the polls have bounced around like a jumping jack.

What's important is what happens from here ON. The Dems have been incredible wimps in dealing with things, only NOW growing some balls...in one situation. Whether they'll hang onto those balls (pun intended) or not will determine how they're viewed in November. The Tea Party has created numerous unnecessary crises and doesn't know the meaning of the word "compromise"; how they behave from here ON will determine how they're perceived in November.

Luckily, in my opinion the non-compromisers will go right on the way they have thus far--after all, aside from this one mess, they've gotten nearly everything they wanted every time they refused to compromise. The difference is that this instance brought their intransigence to the forefront, into stark relief to show people their true bent...it's not about taxes, it's about taxes for WHO. Fight like hell to keep the rich from paying even a PENNY in taxes, but work to raise taxes on everyone else (even tho' it's contrary to the famous "Norquist Pledge"). If they keep it up, maybe this "crisis" WILL be remembered, which can only be for the good of the country.

I hope they keep it up, and I hope the Dems don't return to cowing down to their every demand. I read this today in an opinion piece:

Quote:
Nevertheless, it is hard to see why either party would oppose the cut on strictly economic grounds: Republicans claim to endorse tax cuts broadly because they improve incentives, and Democrats claim to believe in (some) tax cuts because they provide economic stimulus.

That's a false statement; this wasn't on strictly economic grounds at all. The hard-heads on the right made it very clear FROM THE START that their focus wasn't the good of the country, it was defeating Obama no matter what, and helping create a worsening of the recession because it would help defeat Obama. To hell with the people who elected them, in other words: power is all. They also made it clear they didn't want the tax cut continued; their actions in passing a bill with numerous "poison pills" in it which guaranteed it wouldn't fly with Democrats made that patently obvious. It included an array of measures aimed at weakening the unemployment insurance program, as well as restrictions on welfare programs including Aid to Families with Dependent Children. These measures, which the rightwing has traditionally fought to impose on social safety net programs, call for drug tests, shortened time limits, stricter requirements regarding the search for work, forced enrollment in education programs and a variety of other policy changes. Passing that bill was a transparent effort to create a ruse guaranteed to fail so they could say "See, we passed a bill, but the Dems refused it!" The only ones fooled were the pap-swallowing viewers of FauxNews who weren't told the truth.

So it's not about economic grounds, it's the usual political gamesmanship. It's worked thus far; let's hope the Democrats understand the result of this experience and don't keep on letting it work, because two months from now will tell the tale.

My sympathies go out to John Boehner; not for the first time, and for the same reasons as before. My trust goes out to NO ONE' the hard core right will probably go on the way they have, and I won't trust the Dems to fight back again until I see them doing so.

And most of all, I'm sick of the whole damned mess.

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Friday, December 23, 2011 11:43 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

" when the Dems couldn't make everything hunky-dorey in two years"

Hello,

I want to stress that nobody expected the Dems to fix everything in two years. Nobody sane, anyhow.
However, I think we wanted the Dems to take all possible measures to fix things. And all possible measures were not taken. My primary critique of the Dems is that they are only barely better than the alternative. A lesser devil, but still a harmful one.

The worst part is that there were decisions that could have literally been undertaken with the stroke of a pen, had anyone had the moral fiber and intestinal fortitude to do it. I am ashamed of the Dems. Everyone should be. They are a poor alternative to a poor choice.

You implied some of this when you said: " The Dems have been incredible wimps in dealing with things"

But that implies that their hearts were in the right place, but that they just didn't have the courage to carry through on their intentions. Such an interpretation is overly kind. The Dems haven't just been weak. They have also been evil. They have willingly signed on to evil policies that cause real harm.

You said this: "I won't trust the Dems to fight back again"

But honestly? I don't trust the Dems period. If Congress was 100% Democrat I wouldn't trust them to make good decisions.

* Amnesty for illegal wiretappers and torturers.
* Continuing indefinite detention of accused terrorists without trial at Gitmo.
* A law allowing Americans to be seized and held indefinitely without trial.
* Continuing war in Afghanistan and saber rattling against Iran.

These are policies that were either supported by or allowed by Dems, when they had the power and responsibility to oppose them. Our representatives and our president are haggling over money, but they work arm-in-arm when it comes to abusing liberties.

If Americans have short memories, it must be because remembering all the horrors of our leadership on both sides of the aisle is too painful.

In my opinion.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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