REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

F***ing Banks!!!

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, February 19, 2012 15:50
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Friday, February 17, 2012 9:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

A report this week showing rampant foreclosure abuse in San Francisco reflects similar levels of lender fraud and faulty documentation across the United States, say experts and officials who have done studies in other parts of the country.

The audit of almost 400 foreclosures in San Francisco found that 84 percent of them appeared to be illegal, according to the study released by the California city on Wednesday.

"The audit in San Francisco is the most detailed and comprehensive that has been done - but it's likely those numbers are comparable nationally," Diane Thompson, an attorney at the National Consumer Law Center, told Reuters.

Across the country from California, Jeff Thingpen, register of deeds in Guildford County, North Carolina, examined 6,100 mortgage documents last year, from loan notes to foreclosure paperwork.

Of those documents, created between January 2008 and December 2010, 4,500 showed signature irregularities, a telltale sign of the illegal practice of "robosigning" documents.

Robosigning involves the use of bogus documents to force foreclosures without lenders having to scrutinize all the paperwork involved with mortgages. The practice was at the heart of the foreclosure scandal that led to a $25 billion settlement between the U.S. government and five major banks last week.

The banks have never formally admitted any wrongdoing. A Wells Fargo spokesman said, "We have acknowledged we didn't always follow our policies in the foreclosure process. We found some areas where there were deficiencies in our process."

It is expected that the $25 billion settlement will include no admission of wrongdoing by the banks.

Home loans have dropped 33 percent from a 2006 peak that was fueled by generous loans, often to people with dubious credit records. Nearly 11 million Americans now owe more than their homes are worth.

Thingpen said the San Francisco audit, which was commissioned by the city's assessor-recorder, Phil Ting, was not an exceptional case. "Where there's smoke, there's fire, and we're beyond the smoke stage. There's fires in county recording offices across the country."

John O'Brien, the register of deeds for Essex County in northwestern Massachusetts, conducted an audit of loans issued in 2010 and found 75 percent of the assignments to be invalid and a further 9 percent questionable.

LOAN REPACKAGING MUDDIED OWNERSHIP

One of the major problems that has emerged in the foreclosure crisis is that it is far from clear that many lenders foreclosing on properties actually own the loans and have the right to take action against them.

In many cases during the housing bubble that burst in 2008, original mortgages were repackaged and sold to so many investors

that it is now unclear who actually holds the loans

O'Brien could only find the current owners of the mortgages he studied in 287 out of 473 cases.

In the San Francisco study, which studied properties subject to foreclosure sales between January 2009 to November 2011, 45 per cent were sold to entities improperly claiming to be the owner of the loan.

"It is not impossible that there are homeowners who are alleged to have defaulted on loans to which they never fully agreed to and, further, are being foreclosed upon by lenders that might not even own such loans," the report stated.

One factor that probably caused the particularly high 84 per cent rate of illegal foreclosures in San Francisco is that California is a "non-judicial" foreclosure state.

In other words, the foreclosure process does not need to be overseen by a judge. That left the conduct of lenders in California - one of the hardest-hit states in terms of foreclosures - largely unscrutinized until the robosigning scandal gained prominence in late 2010.

In judicial foreclosure states such as New York, some judges have been taking banks to task for submitting faulty foreclosure paperwork.

But Ray Brescia, a visiting professor at Yale Law School and an expert in housing law, said foreclosure fraud had been as rampant in judicial states as non-judicial ones.

"This number around 80 percent is not a number we have not seen before," Brescia said, referring to both the issuing of faulty loans during the housing bubble and the foreclosure crisis that followed.

"There have been a very high level of irregularities across the country." http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/02/17/Foreclosure-Abuse-Ra
mpant-Across-US.aspx#page1
are no words for how much this infuriates me...we've been demonstrating on the front steps of San Rafael's City Hall, which is where the daily auctions of foreclosed homes takes place. It's hard, makes all this protesting more personal to see people come up and beg them not to sell their homes, come up with papers showing they'd paid what they were supposed to--just after their home was bought at auction and they're told "there's nothing we can do"...and more.

Bastards; I hope they KEEP investigating and the banks are held to account MORE--that first one was a drop in the fucking bucket, little else!




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Friday, February 17, 2012 10:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It seems pretty clear to me that this is theft.

I just wish individuals had the power to sue. Most people don't have the resources to sue big banks, nor the ability to prove their case. The burden is on the accuser to provide evidence, and that is a situation that favors the banks. Never mind that they have to show little evidence of anything in order to foreclose in the first place.

I share your indignation about this, Niki.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Friday, February 17, 2012 11:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey, Anthony, small glimmer of hope: As I posted about this before, the recent "deal" with the Banks leaves them open to lawsuits, AND some of the money from them is FOR hiring lawyers, etc., for people to sue. So some people, at least, won't have to have the money to go after the bastards, the deal means the bastards THEMSELVES will be paying the tab. Hee, hee, hee.

Hey, small thrills, okay? ;o)

(...and believe me, "indignation" don't even come CLOSE!)



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Saturday, February 18, 2012 12:56 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Even more horrifying is when you think about how long this MUST have been going on to be such an accepted practice.

There's days I wonder if Mario Buda didn't have a point, and while I still don't think that's the proper way to handle it, you can bet your bippy there's others thinking along the same lines and not all of them are as merciful as me.

I figure that ain't a question of if, it's a question of when, and it would be a particular tragedy for such a dumbass to catch a bunch of occupy folks in the carnage...
But just TRY pointing that out to a bunch of political zealots, argh, and yes, Anarchists have em too, by their nature most of em are somewhat zealous, and it tends to cloud their reason at the worst damn times.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Don't sign off on a mortgage when you can't pay for it.

Pretty simple, actually.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:20 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It's like a lot of investments. The terms are complicated as are the calculations. You're depending on the people offering you the loan to represent it accurately and completely. Even IF you are hesitant to sign, if a financial person says well, we ran the figures and we don't see a problem, you might be tempted to take them at their word.

And a lot of loans were downright fraudulent - ie misrepresented. Which is why the AsG of states and the US government are now investigating for prosecutable cases.

Surely you don't hold the victims of intentional fraud responsible for the fraud, do you? Surely you hold the perpetrators responsible, right?

And if the foreclosures are illegal, surely you think they people committing the crimes should be brought to justice. Or is that too much to presume of you?

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:28 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Hello,

Wait, what? You understand this is about illegal foreclosures, right? Like, a foreclosure SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED but it DID ANYWAY? Otherwise known as a bank stealing your house?

What do any of your statements have to do with that?

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



What are you talking about ? They didn't have to happen, but did anyways ? I'm talking about folks who bought into a load of b.s., they KNEW it was b.s. , but signed off on it anyways, and then whined about the cost going up, after they were told that's what COULD very well happen. And it did. So who's really to blame here ? The govt, for telling the banks to give loans to folks who couldn't afford it ? The banks, for doing what they were told to do ? Or the suckers who bought into the story they WANTED to hear, and signed off on loans they could not or didn't care to pay off anyways ?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:47 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Are we talking about blame or crimes? B/c if you're looking at illegal foreclosures, those are crimes. IMO higher up on the scale of importance than your petty blame-game.

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:51 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

I'm talking about folks who bought into a load of b.s.


Hello,

Then you are off topic. We're talking about banks who are stealing property that does not belong to them.

That's what an illegal foreclosure is.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



And this is a minor issue, when seen in the landscape of the entire housing collapse. An emotional story meant to illicit the exact feelings Niki started this thread off with... But y'all go march, throw rocks and occupy banks , if you want. Just don't get in between me and my ATM when I need to get some cash.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hmmm - fraudulent loans, illegal foreclosures - mere minor issues to little Rappy's off-topic blame game. As usual, he has nothing of value to contribute.

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Bingo Kiki. You expected otherwise? "Blame the victim" is one of his favorite mantras. I can't help the evil part of my brain WISHING he'd go through what others have gone through in having their houses foreclosed on which didn't even have a mortgage (!) or which were foreclosed on through any number of illegal activities! "Minor" just makes me shudder.

In this case I can only assume he is ignorant (deliberately or otherwise) about the subject at hand. It's not ABOUT people taking out mortgages they can't afford; it's about banks doing ILLEGAL things quite deliberately...you know, massively breaking the law? Which I thought he was usually against people doing; or did I miss something?

It's not a matter of sounding too good to be true. The banks in some cases FORGED PEOPLE'S NAMES to documents in order to give out a "loan" which didn't exist. I know in an Alternate Universe it's easier to say the people who are losing their homes screwed up, but it's just not so. Even our men in the military got screwed:
Quote:

JPMorgan Chase also admitted to illegally foreclosing on the families of 27 active-duty military members earlier this year and has very publicly attempted to give the families back their homes or compensate them for damages if the house was sold.

The bank also agreed to pay $27 million in cash to about 6,000 active-duty service members who were overcharged on their mortgages. Though illegal foreclosures may be some of the most egregious examples of lenders mistreating service members, banks have wronged members of the military in other ways. An October lawsuit claims that 13 banks and mortgage companies charged hidden and illegal fees from veterans trying to refinance their homes.

Whether or not some people want to stick their heads in the sand, unfortunately for them the facts are right out there, ADMITTED by the banks, and detailed many places. And they're not just exaggerations of what the home would cost or convincing people unable to afford homes to buy them, this is a completely different thing.
Quote:

For example, in an amazing instance, Bank of America/Countrywide has caused to be filed a Notice of Default against a consumer who did not miss any payments justifying the issuance of any default notification whatsoever.

Additionally, thousands of consumers were allegedly told by Bank of America/Countrywide employees and/or agents that they will all have to “wait” in order to be allowed to modify their loans. Bank of America/Countrywide further represented to consumers that they would not be penalized for failing to make mortgage payments or any property-related payments, and indeed, told the consumers that it is beneficial for consumers to fall further behind in their payments because that will “make it easier” to modify the unreasonable adjustable loans. Instead, the moment that consumers fell three months or more in arrears (as ordered by the bank) the bank immediately began foreclosure proceedings by filing notice of defaults and backing consumers into a corner with zero options and at the mercy of the lender. These types of foreclsore practices are illegal and unethical. http://obamasavemyhome.com/?p=146 unethical, it's the ILLEGAL parts they have ADMITTED TO.

If anyone doesn't like the sources, they were just the first up on Google; there are myriad places you can find the same information from sources on the right, left, middle, government, etc., etc. THEY PLAYED ILLEGAL GAMES. It's as simple as that.
Quote:

BOSTON — The Attorney General's Office has filed suit against five national banks for their roles in allegedly pursuing illegal foreclosures on properties in Massachusetts, as well as deceptive loan servicing.

The lawsuit was filed today in Suffolk Superior Court against Bank of America, Wells Fargo, JP Morgan Chase, Citi, and GMAC. It also names Mortgage Electronic Registration System Inc. (MERCS) and its parent, MERSCORP Inc., as defendants.

“Our suit alleges that the banks have charted a destructive path by cutting corners and rushing to foreclose on homeowners without following the rule of law,'' Attorney General Martha Coakley said in a statement. "Our action today seeks real accountability for the banks illegal behavior and real relief for homeowners.”

In the complaint, Coakley claims these five entities engaged in unfair and deceptive trade practices in violation of Massachusetts’ law by: Pervasive use of fraudulent documentation in the foreclosure process, including so-called “robo-signing; foreclosing without holding the actual mortgage (!!Don'tcha love THAT one??); corrupting Massachusetts’ land recording system through the use of MERS; and failing to uphold loan modification promises to Massachusetts homeowners." http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/breaking/x1622882178/Attorney-Genera
l-sues-5-banks-for-illegal-foreclosures

It has been happening all over the country, and some people trying desperately not to blame the banks are simply adjusting their blinders to let NO light in at all.

From the very beginning,
Quote:

In spring 2010 news stories begin to emerge detailing erroneous foreclosures and evictions, including banks variously foreclosing on homes which were paid for without a mortgage, accidentally foreclosing on the wrong home, and providing fraudulent documentation in courts


Remember robo-signing?
Quote:

Robo-signing is a term used by consumer advocates to describe the robotic process of the mass production of false and forged execution of mortgage assignments, satisfactions, affidavits and other legal documents related to mortgage foreclosures and legal matters being created by persons without knowledge of the facts being attested to. It also includes accusations of notary fraud wherein the notaries pre and/or post notarize the affidavits and signatures of so-called robo-signers.

On July 18, 2011, the Associated Press and Reuters[11] released two reports that robo-signing continued to be a major problem in U.S. courtrooms across America. The AP defined robo-signing as a "variety of practices. It can mean a qualified executive in the mortgage industry signs a mortgage affidavit document without verifying the information. It can mean someone forges an executive's signature, or a lower-level employee signs his or her own name with a fake title. It can mean failing to comply with notary procedures. In all of these cases, robo-signing involves people signing documents and swearing to their accuracy without verifying any of the information."[12]

In 2009, attorney Tom Ice pointed out the wide-scale practice of robo-signing in depositions taken of GMAC's Jeffrey Stephan and other robo-signers.[13] News outlets reported that on September 14, 2010, Jeffrey Stephan testified that he had signed affidavits which he hadn't actually reviewed on behalf of Ally Financial Inc.[6][14] This revelation led to increased scrutiny of foreclosure documentation. The practice was apparently common in the mortgage industry.[6] In following weeks, the robo-signing revelation other large banks have come under fire for employing robo-signers as well, including JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America.[15]

Wikipedia

Remember MERS?
Quote:

The Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, known as MERS, is a privately held company that operates an electronic registry designed to track servicing rights and ownership of mortgage loans in the United States.[16][17] As of the crisis 62 million mortgages are held in the name of MERS,[18] and MERS has initiated thousands of foreclosures in the United States, claiming to be the mortgagee of record. Lawyers have contended in court that MERS has no legal right to initiate a foreclosure, because MERS does not own the loans in question. U.S. lending laws state that only the owner of a loan can initiate a foreclosure.
Wiki

It's not about people taking out mortgages they can't afford; it's about totally ILLEGAL actions by the banks in which they broke the law...sometimes in multiple ways...and quite LITERALLY stole people's homes. To blame the people who lost their homes is...well, something from an alternate universe. I'm guessing this was an instinctive reaction to diss whatIput up, because whatever I put up must be wrong/stupid/leftist/ignorant/something...I just find it hard to believe even he is THAT ignorant!



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Sunday, February 19, 2012 3:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA


This doesn't even begin to cover it - as I have previously mentioned, Citigroup has other tactics used even in "legit" mortgages to deliberately cause defaults which are very grey in legality and outrageous in morality...

Like changing the payment date or amount by a tiny amount, moving it up three days, or increasing the payment by a few cents - and mailing the notice of that one day AFTER the last bill, so when the imminent victim pays it they either consider it as a late payment and start the foreclosure process, or reject the payment cause it's not exact and start the foreclosure process...
Or, and this was rich, cashing the payment check for 1/10th of it's actual VALUE by misplacing the decimal and then trying to start foreclosure.

Right now anyone on the "upside" (meaning the house is currently 'worth' more than they owe on it) is facing these games en-masse without an ounce of even PRETENSE by the damn banks.

Believe me, fielding this crap is almost a full-time job of itself for my Ex despite being several payments ahead, the ENDLESS chicanery is apalling - and mind you they've already BROKEN several provisions of the mortgage on their end which constitute breach of the whole, but enforcing those provisions would cost more than paying the loan off entire, so it's pretty much a license to cheat and steal for them.

And even THAT wasn't good enough, as the examples above show.


And if that ain't enough for pinhead here - this is about HOLDING THEM TO THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT, which they violated, clearly and intentionally, and as everyone knows, I have something of a pet-peeve about broken contracts.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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