Second verse same as the first... by Hero

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Second verse same as the first...

POSTED BY: HERO
UPDATED: Thursday, November 8, 2012 08:01
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Wednesday, November 7, 2012 10:16 AM

I admit I was somewhat diappointed last night. Not surprised, but disappointed.

For what it's worth I honostly did not know who was going to win. I can't remember an election filled with so many unknowns and too close to calls. I think that if the election had been held a week ago (pre Sandy) we win or a week from now, we win.

I point to several things that cost Romney this election.

First, Sandy. The hurricane was horrible. So horrible it knocked election coverage off the air for days. It stopped Mitt's momentum cold and gave the President about three days of "look at me being all Presidential" news coverage complete with props, pictures, and Chris Christie. This was just bad luck. I'm a Browns fan I understand a bad bounce when I see one. It's a shame but there's really nothing you can do about it...it just happens sometimes. I hope those people still suffering get the help they need...no matter who they voted for.

Second, the media. Clearly the press dropped the ball from start to finish. Ignoring Obama gaffes, exploiting Romney gaffes (or creating them). Bad media. I've always felt the freedom of the press was never a right of the press but rather a right of the people. The fact is that our press is not free...it may not be state controlled, but it is not free. This is not unusual in American history. You can look at media bias going all the way back to the days of Franklin.

Third, the Jeep story. I think Romney's ad did cost him Ohio. I don't disagree with the premise of the add and I think anyone who does not see the problem that comes from new Jeep factories in China is incredibly naive...I mean you have two factories making the same thing but one is more modern and has one tenth the labor costs...which gets closed if the company has another downturn? Hopefully Chrysler does well...but the record is not good. In any event Romney should have stayed hands off. He'd have been better continuing his ongoing ads on coal, debt, etc.

Then again Ohio did not cost him the election. He lost in in Florida, Ohio, Virginia, and Nevada or Colorado. I don't know Colorado's problem but Nevada...hey the President hates your number one industry and your leading the nation in housing problems and unemployment so why not more of the same? Then again they understand 'double down' more then anybody.

Florida? Here the issue is Rubio vs. Ryan. It's Monday morning quarterbacking but clearly Romney needed a latino-hawk rather then a budget-hawk. I thought Ryan did a great job, but this was a Romney-latino weakness they never overcame. Florida used to be all about retirement, Jews, and Cubans...now its all that plus women and non-Cuban latinos and Romeny never understood that.

Virginia? Romney's coal message really carried the western part of the state, but he never even visited the eastern part and never connected with those voters.

Rubio/Ryan would have been an unstoppable ticket. In fact while I understand Ryan's appeal (young, conservative, budget expert, can speak like he knows what the hell he's talking about without pissing half the country off just because of his clothes or hairstyle) I never saw what Romney brought to the ticket. A New England moderate Republican. He can't carry his state...it was not going to happen...hell, I don't think he was really governor unless half the state was asleep that year...not because he's Romney but because of the (R) next to his name. We needed a heavy hitter from a swing state...like Ohio or Pennsylvania or Florida on top of the ticket. But he was best of the field. I would have voted for Santorum...but lets face it, he'd have gotten creamed cause being a good man and true believer (not to mention a great campaigner) only gets you so far (State office). I think Huckabee would have done at least as well as Romney if not better...he probably would have been our best bet, but all the 'best bets' stayed home this year.

But 2016 is a different story. The dead weight has been left behind (unless Bachman runs again) and there is now a crop of very capable young Republicans coming from states like Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, and Texas.

So cheer for four more years. Four very politically ugly years filled with the worst of what we've seen done over again...at least twice. More unemployment, higher taxes, higher prices, less opportunity, and less hope. There will be terror attacks, wars, flood, famines, diseaes, and President Obama will handle them all as well as he's handled everything else...leading from behind...behind Europe, China, Hillary, the teleprompter, George Clooney, and his Presidential golf cart or White House backetball.

Don't worry though, he'll still make time for fundraisers.

One thing we really need to get serious about is military voting. Tens of thousands of soldiers were denied their right to vote because of a series of screw ups and random events. We need to tighten that system up because if we don't fight for their right to vote...why should they fight for ours?

H

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Wednesday, November 7, 2012 10:19 AM

STORYMARK

Yeah, the polls, which said pretty much the entire time that this is how it would go were total lies. The right wing media insisting that Mitt would win was really right, despite all evidence..... and it was the storm.

Conservative fantasy land really knows no borders.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, November 7, 2012 10:31 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Wednesday, November 7, 2012 10:47 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I admit I was somewhat diappointed last night.

Eh, too bad Zomney didn't win, then you could have attributed every single little one of his fuck ups to BARRY leaving him with no where to go & no resources, setting the stage for his difficulties, blagh blagh... No matter who won, you'll STILL get to blame the not-Republican! You were bound to win EITHER WAY, DUDE!!

Celebrate!

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Wednesday, November 7, 2012 11:14 AM

MAL4PREZ

This outcome was most definitely NOT a surprise, not to anyone living outside the Faux fantasy denial world. Both electoral-vote.com and 538.com have been predicting this outcome for some time, even when Romney surged after the debate. He never took the electoral college lead.

Another non-surprise: the righties spent weeks saying the math-based predictors were wrong, and now that the polls (except Ras and Gallup) and math been proven 100% correct, Hero just ignores it. "So many unknowns"? Duh. It was quite well known!

Ironically, electoral_vote predicted the excuses that Hero just kicked down with:

How the Right Will Rationalize a Romney Loss
* The liberal media (= NYT) were in the tank for Obama and refused to talk about Libya all day and night
* The pollsters conspired to have skewed polls that discouraged all the faint-hearted Republicans from voting
* It's all the fault of Hurricane Sandy because it cost Romney three days of campaigning
* Well, its the fault of Sandy plus that traitor Chris Christie, who is only looking out for his own fat ass
* The voters are too stupid to realize that when Obamacare kicks in, America will instantly become Cuba
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2012/Pres/Maps/Nov06.html

And Nate Silver, on non-Sandy reasons for Obama to win (written before the vote which - did I mention? - Nate predicted EXACTLY)

* Mr. Obama was adjudicated the winner of the second and third presidential debates in surveys of voters who watched them.
* The past month has brought a series of encouraging economic news, including strong jobs reports in October and last Friday.
* The bounce in the polls that Mr. Romney received after the Denver debate may have been destined to fade in part, as polling bounces often do following political events like national conventions.
* Democrats have an edge in early voting based on states that provide hard data about which party’s voters have turned out to cast ballots. Some voters who were originally rejected by the likely voter models that surveys apply may now be included if they say that they have already voted.
* Both Mr. Obama and Mr. Romney have been running lots of advertisements, which could have some effect, especially in the swing states.
* Mr. Obama’s voter-targeting operation may in fact be stronger than Mr. Romney’s and may have begun to show up in the polls.
* Mr. Obama’s approval rating is at 49 or 50 percent in many surveys, a threshold that would ordinarily predict a narrow re-election for an incumbent.
* Some elections “break” toward one or another candidate at the end as undecided voters tune in and begin to evaluate their decision.

Each of these hypotheses could merit its own article. But the point is that the causes for Mr. Obama’s gain in the polls are overdetermined, meaning that there are lot of variables that might have contributed to the one result.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/nov-4-did-hurrican
e-sandy-blow-romney-off-course/#more-37216

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Wednesday, November 7, 2012 7:04 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Yup, blame it on the weather, not the nutjobs in the Republican Party that have had their feet firmly wedged in their mouths.

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 1:51 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

I admit I was somewhat diappointed last night. Not surprised, but disappointed.
For what it's worth I honostly did not know who was going to win.

Apparently to the point you forgot how to spell or type.

Quote:
I can't remember an election filled with so many unknowns and too close to calls. I think that if the election had been held a week ago (pre Sandy) we win or a week from now, we win.

Voting demographics weren't changed one iota by the storm.

Quote:

I point to several things that cost Romney this election.

First, Sandy. The hurricane was horrible. So horrible it knocked election coverage off the air for days.

You mean the unfair biased election coverage? One would think that would have been a plus for Romney.

Quote:
It stopped Mitt's momentum cold and gave the President about three days of "look at me being all Presidential" news coverage complete with props, pictures, and Chris Christie. This was just bad luck.

His momentum had already stopped. When he laid low and played it safe after the first debate his fate was already sealed. There is no such thing as bad luck when you're running for President. As far as Christie, he knew exactly what he was doing as evidenced by his tepid and lackluster keynote speech at the RNC convention. He clearly never had any interest in seeing Romney win, and I suspect he fancies himself as the man for 2016.

Quote:
Second, the media. Clearly the press dropped the ball from start to finish. Ignoring Obama gaffes, exploiting Romney gaffes (or creating them). Bad media. I've always felt the freedom of the press was never a right of the press but rather a right of the people.

Well boo fucking hoo. You figure that out all by yourself? Unless you've been under a rock for the last two decades that's hardly a revelation. Ever hear of Sarah Palin, or ANY female conservative getting fair treatment in the media? How about Black conservatives? The time is long long past whining about it. Maybe someday conservatives will learn how to defeat it and and fight back as hard as liberals do on everything.

Quote:
Third, the Jeep story. I think Romney's ad did cost him Ohio. I don't disagree with the premise of the add and I think anyone who does not see the problem that comes from new Jeep factories in China is incredibly naive...I mean you have two factories making the same thing but one is more modern and has one tenth the labor costs...which gets closed if the company has another downturn? Hopefully Chrysler does well...but the record is not good. In any event Romney should have stayed hands off. He'd have been better continuing his ongoing ads on coal, debt, etc.

Romney never had any clear message on anything. That's why he lost. If I couldn't get a handle on what he and Ryan were trying to say about the economy, I wondered how anyone other than lemmings could.

Quote:
I don't know Colorado's problem but Nevada...hey the President hates your number one industry and your leading the nation in housing problems and unemployment so why not more of the same? Then again they understand 'double down' more then anybody.

They understand enough to listen to their union leaders. They understand Republicans offer little to Hispanics or any other non-white group.

Quote:
Florida? Here the issue is Rubio vs. Ryan. It's Monday morning quarterbacking but clearly Romney needed a latino-hawk rather then a budget-hawk.

Wasn't that way at all for many, including me, who said it back when he was chosen. I posted in RWED that it was "the final nail in the coffin."

Quote:
I thought Ryan did a great job.

At what? Being a divisive smart-ass with less-than-zero charisma?That reminds me of all those who said the Casey Anthony prosecutors did a great job.

Quote:

Rubio/Ryan would have been an unstoppable ticket.

Except Rubio didn't run. He's about as ready for the top of the ticket as Scott Brown would be....oooops!

Quote:
But he was best of the field. I would have voted for Santorum...but lets face it, he'd have gotten creamed cause being a good man and true believer (not to mention a great campaigner) only gets you so far (State office). Mike Huckabee would have done at least as well as Romney if not better...he probably would have been our best bet, but all the 'best bets' stayed home this year.

I'd like to respond to that as well but I don't want to miss these two brand new boss tv shows, Leave It To Beaver, and Ozzie and Harriet.

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 3:11 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
Eh, too bad Zomney didn't win, then you could have attributed every single little one of his fuck ups to BARRY leaving him with no where to go & no resources, setting the stage for his difficulties, blagh blagh...

And why not? It's worked for the Democrats for four years. Tried and proven.

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 4:33 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, list us some problems during Obama's first term that are blamed on Bush that didn't have their roots with Bush.

I'll give it 12 hours b4 I write you off and move on.

Oh, and - hey asshole - you lost! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 8:01 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Ever hear of Sarah Palin, or ANY female conservative getting fair treatment in the media?

Hell, Id say the media gave her better treatment than she deserved. They actually took her semi-seriously for a lot longer than she warranted.

We won't even discuss that crazy old bat, Bachman.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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