REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

About that infrastructure...

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, May 26, 2013 09:26
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Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:06 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Rap was happy to crow that money going to infrastructure has lessened greatly under Obama, but was there under Bush--which was weird unto itself because his thread was GROUSING about infrastructure spending by Obama to begin with, and claimed the infrastructure spending was "money wasted". Apparently he didn't consider it "money wasted" under BUSH, because he lauded that in the same thread.

The problem is, it's the REPUBLICANS who have killed that spending, as part of their overall agenda of "oppose anything Obama", and our country is paying for it. The recent bridge collapse on I-5 wasn't because of the bridge being faulty, but because it was hit by a truck. The bridge is old, but it wasn't in need of repair, from all I can discover. However, as that's brought the argument to the forefront again, I offer this as a thread in which TO actually TALK about it.

My position: The infrastructure problem IS a big one, IS being ignored by Republicans, and IS doing harm to our country
Quote:

A Republican-led filibuster killed the presidents $60 billion infrastructure bill, the latest of a series of failures ( http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_09/025547.ph
p
) to invest in this nations infrastructure. We have numbers to show how much the “fiscally conservatives” are actually saving from the government budget, and it is not a savings at all.

The I-5 corridor is one of the busiest trade routes between the United States and Canada, linking the port of Vancouver to the western half of the continental United States. It is so important to the nations GDP that it has been nicknamed the “Link to the World.” Almost $20 billion of trade went along the I-5 corridor between the two nations in 2006 alone

( http://jsis.washington.edu/canada/

events/Washington-Canada.pdf), and it has only grown since. The need to renovate, upgrade, and improve this key corridor has been clear for years

( http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/EB857B2B-6453-4296-ACA0-

00EBBCE49DFB/0/CorridorsoftheFuture.pdf).

The Republicans are no fiscal conservatives. They are no budget hawks. They do not understand that the government is not a business, and never can be. They operate on fundamentally different principles. A business is designed to maximize return to its investors, be they shareholders or the proprietor. A government is the opposite of this, and is designed to maximize productivity of its citizens. There are no “shareholders” to return profit to, so cutting in order to maximize profits is pointless, and only generates a drag on the economy. They simply do not understand economics, and that infrastructure investments are the key to growth ("Agricultural Leaders: Transportation infrastructure key to economic growth, jobs", http://agleadersmi.com/inthenews/pressreleases/Pages/Transportation-
infrastructure-key-to-economic-growth,-jobs.aspx; "Infrastructure Key to Fulfilling Promises of Economic Growth", http://philadelphia.regionsbusiness.com/print-edition-commentary/edito
rial-infrastructure
- key-to-fulfilling-promises-of-economic-growth/; "Infrastructure and Growth*", http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTDEC/EXTRESEARCH/0,,conten
tMDK:22629797
~ pagePK:64165401~piPK:64165026~theSitePK:469382~isCURL:Y,00.html).

But the Republicans would rather cherry pick economic papers which fit their ideology ( http://www.peri.umass.edu/236/hash/31e2ff374b6377b2ddec04deaa6388b1/pu
blication/566
/) and then refuse to admit failure ( http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/reinhart-and-rogoff-are-no
t-happy
/). And they are ready to lead us off the cliff, quite literally, and cause another economic collapse rather than admit failure ( http://egbertowillies.com/2010/08/01/right-wing-republicans- caused-economic-apocalypse-so-says-reagans-omb-dir-david-stockman-p2-tcot-teaparty/). When a government invests in infrastructure, in growth, budget issues disappear (; http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/11/deficit-to-surplus- in-record-time-californias-comeback-story/). Those who argue anything else are the economic version of faith healers ( http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/10/18/romney-fails-history-lesson/), and can be safely ignored. Only by understanding the difference between a viable economic idea, and ideology ( http://thoughtstate.blogspot.com/2011/07/keynesian-home- owner-vs-austrian-school.html) can we move forward.

In the GOP’s masterful move to “save money” they have cost tens of millions more than the initial pricetag. This is repeated elsewhere when the Republicans enact policies which are guaranteed to waste more money than saved {Votes to repeal Obamacare, KNOWN to fail before they are brought up, are estimated to have cost $53 million...so far**}. They are not the party of fiscal responsibility, they are the big spenders, the party of money wasting. http://www.addictinginfo.org
/2013/05/25/so-much-for-fiscal-hawks-republicans-now- costing-you-tens-of-millions-to-save-a-few-million/#ixzz2UQJlqpZU



By the way, Rap posted right-wing pieces which claimed that investment in infrastructure didn't create any more reduction in unemployment than places where there was no infrastructure investment. It of course didn't mention anything about how those highlighted areas would have done WITHOUT infrastructure investment. That wouldn't have been convenient. The fact is:
Quote:

The Congressional Budget Office’s calculations suggest caution. It estimates that the administration’s fiscal stimulus produced about $1 of economic output for every $1 in stimulus, on average. Spending on infrastructure — say, repairing bridges and roads — produced a bigger bang for the buck, because it also encouraged private investment. Tax cuts, on the other hand, yielded less, because taxpayers saved some of their windfall rather than spend it. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/business/in-a-

shovel-a-cure-for-stunted-economic-
growth.html?pagewanted=all


That has been proven out again and again in study after study. So that one "area" didn't do "better" in reducing unemployment, despite getting infrastructure investment, proves absolutely nothing.

* Regarding "Infrastructure and Growth": "Economists have viewed infrastructure as a key ingredient for productivity and growth since at least Adam Smith."

You know, that Founding Father? This one:
Quote:

Smith outlined the proper expenses of the government in The Wealth of Nations, Book V, Ch. I. Included in his requirements of a government is to enforce contracts and provide justice system, grant patents and copy rights, provide public goods such as infrastructure, provide national defense and regulate banking. It was the role of the government to provide goods "of such a nature that the profit could never repay the expense to any individual" such as roads, bridges, canals, and harbours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith]


Now, we all know Rap and his buddies are HUGE on the Founding Fathers, so it's just one more pretzel twist that he takes the time to bitch against Obama investing in infrastructure spending...not to mention all the valid points made in the above article--WITH cites you can go to in order to read facts, figures and details on the points made.

** Example: Cost to keep voting to repeal Obamacare:

" http://www";
then "youtube.com/watch?v=pga7UCjc2aQ&feature=youtube"

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Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Addendum: My apologies. FFF Beta has become terribly glitch for me; it won't wrap URLs, frequently won't close quotes or italics (I end up putting in line breaks and doubling my "close" coding to get it to work), and URLs to YouTube sometimes just don't work. I spent a lot of time on the above post trying to break the URLs and clean it up; I hope it's readable, and apologize if it's appearance is a mess. ALL the cite and URLs are valid, you just have to take out the spaces, and the last problem was the YouTube URL, so you have to type it in yourself to view it.

Going to ask Haken about this, it's been going on for a while for me; is anyone else experiencing this kind of thing? It's NO BIGGIE, I'm more than willing to do whatever I have to in order to work around it, so please, don't let this thread become about that.

Thank you.


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