What's the deal with Jongstraw? by kpo

I propose a simple and effective equation which pretty much sums up all the behaviour we see on this board.

Left wing + Right wing + mix well --> ideological flame war

We've reached stage 2, also known as "tit for tat," or "I'm more vocal than you are which makes me right." I predict six months from now we might be at stage 3, "Your mom jokes."

I am hella psyched for stage three. :D

*Prediction not intended seriously

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 8:40 AM

So you put my name into a thread title now? Ok. I can go down that road too. I guarantee it will be a real hoot!

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:15 AM

Look, Jongstraw, I've been down this road already. We all have. You get so frustrated because no one seems like they're listening to what you're saying, and you start to think, do they even know me as a person or care about who I am or if I'm doing all right emotionally? If not, do they hate me? Why else would they not know these things? If they hate me so much I should make sure they hate me.

I will pitch a huge self-destructive fit on the board, so they will then admit the truth. I will stop mincing words about what I think, because they don't care about me anyway, so I'm just going to trash talk and taunt and troll and threaten and parody other board posters and deliberately try to offend people, because it all works to make their dislike stronger.

The end goal, we think, is to leave the board and the best way out is for everyone else to revoke our invitation and welcome. But really what's going on is that we're upset about something that happened recently. We're depressed. We're angry. And we take all that anger and frustration and guilt and we lob it at everyone else. It's deliberate social suicide.

Yeah I've been there, I'm still there. And I've seen other people fall in this same hole. But the truth is, you don't climb back out by indulging in the dark side, you just dig in deeper. I'm staying down here because from here I can help push people back up.

So up you go. If there's something going on, if you really have been hurt by something, then I'll listen.

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:28 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I think Jongs is having personal issues.

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:54 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Ah Jongs, speak of the devil. What's the deal? Why the change in behaviour?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Anyone remember RiverLove or River6213?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:27 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Anyone remember RiverLove or River6213?

Ah yes, the good ol' days.

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Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:49 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I'm always very curious about people and what goes wrong with them. Jong used to be like this all the time, albeit less active. Then he made a HUGE effort and got to be semi-socialized. Now he's back to what he was b4. It's a semi-interesting puzzle.

But I see the same thing happening with Geezer. He used to TRY to be somewhat slick with with his various rhetorical manipulations: strawmen, ad hominem, shifting definitions etc ... now he's just a mean and clumsy rabid ideologue.

Little rappy went over the edge a long, looooong time ago, but he's upped the volume. And he and jongsie really need to get a room.

SignyM posted a little while ago that since the repubicans are now no longer focused on keeping Obama from getting a second term - seeing as how that ship has sailed - they are whipping up a froth of smear tactics to try and keep him from being able to address any agenda. If I have time I'll try and source that.

Personally, I used to dip in and out of that far-right nutso land to keep tabs of what was going on, but haven't for a while. So this is only speculation on my part. But it makes sense to me that what's going on with Jongsie, and Slick, and little rappy is that they're being driven into a frenzy of rabid Obama-hating by the relentless vitriol that they choose to pour into their ears.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

1kiki - Funny, you saying how others have gone over the edge, when it's YOU who admits to stalking ( o.k. " hounding " ) those with whom you disagree.

I find that to be humorous.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:45 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

KPO, I have finally given up on Jong. It's really sad; I used to actually respect him; I think I arrived at the end of his "nasty times", and by the time I kinda got to "know" him, he seemed to have both disrespect and appreciation for either side of the spectrum, depending on the issue/person, leaning rightish but pretty sensible.

The person we see now is a whole different animal, and I'm hereby labeling him a troll. His inane one-liner "responses" are nothing but the definition of trolling, and it's a shame; he's actually one of the last righties here I would have called a troll...at one time.

Kiki stalks people? Funny, I hadn't noticed. But she may be onto something; the level of ObamaHate seems to have INCREASED since the election, rather than lessened. Maybe it's a reaction to how sure their propaganda masters had them convinced he wouldn't win, or something...?

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:57 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

This shocked me.

Quote:
You get so frustrated because no one seems like they're listening to what you're saying, and you start to think, do they even know me as a person or care about who I am or if I'm doing all right emotionally? If not, do they hate me? Why else would they not know these things? If they hate me so much I should make sure they hate me.

I will pitch a huge self-destructive fit on the board, so they will then admit the truth. I will stop mincing words about what I think, because they don't care about me anyway, so I'm just going to trash talk and taunt and troll and threaten and parody other board posters and deliberately try to offend people, because it all works to make their dislike stronger.

The end goal, we think, is to leave the board and the best way out is for everyone else to revoke our invitation and welcome. But really what's going on is that we're upset about something that happened recently. We're depressed. We're angry. And we take all that anger and frustration and guilt and we lob it at everyone else. It's deliberate social suicide.

Byte, is that truly how you think? I have to take exception to your "We all have." None of that has ever occurred to me, nor is any of it anything I have ever done or would even think of doing. I find it truly sad; I wish it weren't so for you. I wish you had less of a personal investment in this place, so that it didn't affect you so strongly.

You see, if you don't EXPECT anyone on an anonymous internet forum/site to care about you personally, when they do, it's a lovely, beautiful surprise and makes you feel really great and special. Because it IS great and special when someone cares, it's the rarity, the exception that proves the rule, and it's not going to happen very often. If you EXPECT it, you'll only be disappointed and you leave yourself open to a world of hurt from people who don't care about anyone and just use the internet to vent their anger (since they can do it anonymously and the social boundaries are absent) at the real world.

I hope there's some way you can someday turn your thinking around and accept that "caring", on the internet, is the exception, not the rule. I think you'd enjoy it a lot more if you did, and be hurt a lot less. The attitude you express here seems terribly self-destructive, and almost masochistic, to me.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:22 AM

You remember me trolling you, saying I was performing tests and experiments on board members. You were pretty offended by it, to the point you brought it up again a few months ago, when you were telling me how much you disrespect me because I don't ever try to improve my attitude and how you believe that nothing on the internet matters. These are all self-defense mechanisms, what I did lashing out, what others do building insulation around themselves.

I thought that my attitude might be infecting the board in some way, but now I think all this stuff that goes on here might be just how internet personalities like this board attracts tend to react under stress. I'm on one end of the spectrum, whereas someone who does not react very often is on the other.

For about the last three years, my signature, which I never allowed anyone to see, was a reminder to myself. Just three words. "No one cares." No one cares about my problems, my whining, what I get upset about, and they certainly don't care about me.

But that signature was kinda really freaking embarrassing and angsty (hence again why no one ever saw it), so instead about six months ago I changed it to a troll smiley face in ASCII. I have tried to let that influence my contribution of complete and utter irrelevance around here, and I hope you all have found it to be some manner of improvement.

Anyway. The point is, I recognize this situation because I live it every day all the time. I've seen CTS do it, Riona do it, DT do it, it was pretty much all Kaneman/RiverLove/River6213 EVER did, and I have some very strong suspicions it's why AURaptor and Wulf act the way they do towards you left-wing types. And some of the people on the left I've also seen go a little feral.

Jongstraw is reacting very strongly to SOMETHING. You don't get a post from someone threatening about how they'll go down that road (implying I presume that WE'LL ALL RUE THE DAY WE CROSSED JONGSTRAW MWAHAHA) from outta nowhere.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:39 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I think you misunderstand me sometimes, Byte. I never said I "disrespect (you) because (you) don't ever try to improve (your) attitude" or "believe that nothing on the internet matters". I don't disrespect you, I'm sad for you--I don't like to see anyone suffer and it makes me truly sad to see someone hate themselves. I respect what you write some times and don't respect it others, depending on the CONTENT. And I don't believe "nothing on the internet matters", I just don't take the internet really, really seriously. Okay? I certainly don't dislike you; we agree when we agree and don't when we don't, simple as that.

I think a more accurate statements would be that RWED represents "just how internet personalities like this board attracts tend to react"...period. Doesn't take stress for some people to deliberately be nasty, it can be just part of their personality. In fact in an anonymous setting such as this, it takes a lot of WORK to STAY civil in the face of ugliness. And there's a tendency for some of us to get frustrated by the nastiness without realizing it and find ourselves returning it in kind because of the overall atmosphere. I don't think that relates to "stress", just to frustration over time. It's harder to stay civil when people are uncivil to you, much less downright horrible, with wishes you'd die and extremely personal attacks. I think that's pretty much human nature.

Did Jong "threaten" us somewhere? I must have missed that; I thought the way he's been behaving was just how he intended to "be", not that he had something further in mind. I don't see how anyone can ever actually threaten anyone else here; we're all in the ether, we can't hurt one another unless we allow ourselves to be hurt.

I have no clue why Jong has suddenly gone off the deep end, nor is it my problem. I guess I was just trying to say that what we may perceive as others' reasons for behaving as they do might not necessarily be valid, that's all.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:46 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ooops, you edited and added to your post, I just saw that. I don't know what your sig is or was; if it's a smiley face, I think that's a major improvement over "nobody cares". We'll never understand one another, I've accepted that, I guess I just wish it weren't so important to you whether anyone cares or not. I see RWED as a "casual conversation"--I would wonder whether the store clerk "cared" about me or not if we had casual conversation; obviously to you it's a lot different.

I guess for me it's just healthier not to expect strangers to care; when something like people contributing to send me to the Gulf happens, that's ENORMOUS to me--I'd like to believe most of the impetus was because they, too, wished to help the Gulf and I just represented "something" they could do, but It meant a ton to me that people trusted me enough to send money and know I WOULD do it. For me, when someone remarks on something that shows they remembered something I wrote or something about me, that's a real gift: to expect it is foreign to me. I'm not sure why our attitudes are so different, I'm just sad when I notice that you're so easily hurt, and wish it were otherwise, that's all.

By the way, you are not irrelevant, you know. You are no less relevant than any other voice here, that's simply a fact.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 6:50 AM

Ahem. A quick google search:

Quote:
That you choose to wallow in self-loathing is extremely sad; that you're absolutely determined not to even try to do anything about it makes me disrespect you.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53674

I'm used to getting stung by the realization that I'm mostly seen as a nuisance around here, which is why I decided to EMBRACE it.

Unfortunately, Jongstraw is apparently going through something similar, but is going much farther than I normally do.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:37 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

You're misunderstanding, or, wait, maybe I misunderstood what you wrote. I do disrespect what appears to me to be your "wallowing" in your own self-loathing, I don't understand why anyone would be so absolutely determined to convince everyone they are some kind of monster, which everyone should somehow fear (you did threaten us, if you recall), and insist on it to the degree you do. How can I possibly respect that?

Please understand: That doesn't mean I disrespect you as a PERSON. I disrespect that ASPECT of your thinking, but not you as a person. Perhaps that's what you meant by your first remark and I thought you were saying I disrespect you completely; if so, I misunderstood. Just as long as that's clarified.

I think perhaps you might find value in asking if people here see you as a nuisance before stating that as fact. I don't. Perhaps some do, I can't speak for others, but I would hazard a guess that there are very few here who view you that way, and that "mostly" may be a misapprehension on your part. And respectfully, I think it's wrong to ascribe beliefs to Jong that he has not expressed; maybe he's told you something off the forum about which we don't know, but personally I'd rather hear from Jong what Jong believes.

And there I think I will stop; too often we get into these back-and-forths which really should be between you and I off forum, not in a thread about someone or something else.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:56 AM

The way I think and feel and experience the world is all I can express here in words. To have no respect for that, is to have no respect for me, because that is all that defines me as a person.

But I can't ask you for your respect, and I've lost it for entirely valid reasons on your part.

Anyway, we can let Jong comment here. My sharing was an attempt to encourage him to open up, not to evoke sympathy.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Look, Jongstraw, I've been down this road already. We all have. You get so frustrated because no one seems like they're listening to what you're saying, and you start to think, do they even know me as a person or care about who I am or if I'm doing all right emotionally? If not, do they hate me? Why else would they not know these things? If they hate me so much I should make sure they hate me.

I will pitch a huge self-destructive fit on the board, so they will then admit the truth. I will stop mincing words about what I think, because they don't care about me anyway, so I'm just going to trash talk and taunt and troll and threaten and parody other board posters and deliberately try to offend people, because it all works to make their dislike stronger.

The end goal, we think, is to leave the board and the best way out is for everyone else to revoke our invitation and welcome. But really what's going on is that we're upset about something that happened recently. We're depressed. We're angry. And we take all that anger and frustration and guilt and we lob it at everyone else. It's deliberate social suicide.

Yeah I've been there, I'm still there. And I've seen other people fall in this same hole. But the truth is, you don't climb back out by indulging in the dark side, you just dig in deeper. I'm staying down here because from here I can help push people back up.

So up you go. If there's something going on, if you really have been hurt by something, then I'll listen.

Hey Doc, You should save your dime-store psychology for those that clearly need it, like the people that have posted after you here. The ones that feel they're on a holy mission to relentlessly stalk and attack like infectious rabid dogs to everything that AURaptor, Geezer, Wulf, Hero, and I post. They're very sick and pathetic people, n'est pas?

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:08 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
The ones that feel they're on a holy mission to relentlessly stalk and attack like infectious rabid dogs to everything that AURaptor, Geezer, Wulf, Hero, and I post.

Was it something in particular that set you off?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:13 AM

Quote:
Hey Doc, You should save your dime-store psychology for those that clearly need it

By that response, you have confirmed my hypothesis.

I can extrapolate back. You started off merely trying to make a point about the number of postings from the left. Then I posted my thread, where you reconciled with Sig somewhat. But the left-wing/right-wing tension immediately resumed again after that, and, feeling betrayed by this after your proffered olive branch, you now hold most of the board in contempt, including myself, except for a few of your allies.

Is this an accurate assessment?

Furthermore I suspect that my attempting to talk to you here in regards to my own experiences struck you as yet another false promise and another false olive branch from the people on this board who "are against you." I am sorry for that. It is likely I am going to be unsuccessful in appealing to the Jongstraw underneath this reaction.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 9:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Hey Doc, You should save your dime-store psychology for those that clearly need it

By that response, you have confirmed my hypothesis.

I can extrapolate back. You started off merely trying to make a point about the number of postings from the left. Then I posted my thread, where you reconciled with Sig somewhat. But the left-wing/right-wing tension immediately resumed again after that, and, feeling betrayed by this after your proffered olive branch, you now hold most of the board in contempt, including myself, except for a few of your allies.

Is this an accurate assessment?

Furthermore I suspect that my attempting to talk to you here in regards to my own experiences struck you as yet another false promise and another false olive branch from the people on this board who "are against you." I am sorry for that. It is likely I am going to be unsuccessful in appealing to the Jongstraw underneath this reaction.

Your charm and amusing pseudo-sincerity are compelling, but I have no idea what you want from me or what your point is.

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Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:24 AM

Quote:
Your charm and amusing pseudo-sincerity are compelling, but I have no idea what you want from me or what your point is.

You're assuming pseudo-sincerity because at some point you lumped me in with a bunch of people who you think attack you.

Did you notice the exchange I had with Niki? Notice that the issues I'm talking about that I have are at the root of some trust issues I have with Niki? At some point in my time at the board I became so angry at everyone that I basically alienated myself from everyone, and I did it on purpose. I snapped at people who didn't deserve it, I even snapped at people who are normally my allies.

My point is, I think you're acting like me when I'm under stress. You don't have to continue talking about it with me, or even acknowledge anything. You haven't started snapping at your friends as far as I can tell, so you're not as far along as I am. It's your choice what you want to do. But I will say, that building up a lot of hate and resentment and always feeling like you're under attack isn't good for anyone. That's what happened to me, so I should know.

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:43 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"The ones that feel they're on a holy mission to relentlessly stalk AND ATTACK ..."

When have I initiated an attack? When have I posted to start a flame war? Find it.

It's all been in response to the postings of your 'ilk' (love that word, got it from little rapey), which have gone on for YEARS, taking advantage of the 'liberal' mindset to be rational, factual, fair, and endlessly patient.

When I get about 8 years under my belt - multiply by 5 to make up for the numbers on your side - I will feel I've balanced things out and made them fair. That's my version of 'fair and balanced'.

Don't like it?

GOOD!

ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Thursday, May 30, 2013 6:46 PM

Quote:
got it from little rapey),

What

...WHAT

This, after I just bawled out HK for stuff and after I had to yell at CTS for what she said to Mal4Prez?

USING RAPE AS AN AD HOMINEM WHY ARGHABLE You're all better than this!

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Friday, May 31, 2013 5:04 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
USING RAPE AS AN AD HOMINEM WHY ARGHABLE You're all better than this!

Is rape worse than torture? Rappy deserves it, Byte, and more. He has no regard for anyone's health, well being, or survival except his own. He doesn't care if people are tortured or hundreds of thousands are killed, or millions starve, just so he can go to comfortable sleep in his widdle jammies. And he says it loudly, and proudly, in every single thread he posts. He's nothing more than a leech with delusions of grandeur.

There was ONE change that came over rappy, tho (a change for the worse, BTW)... once upon a time, he used to argue that fatal poverty and egregious wealth served a purpose: it made people "work hard". Perhaps having looked into his own life, or the lives of people who are fabulously wealthy, he realized that wealthy people DON'T "work hard". He no longer even tries to justify a society-as-arena setup, he just says "What's mine is mine and screw you to death". In other words, he is a morally disgusting parasite. And stupid, to boot. How I really feel about rappy, and what I think rappy really deserves, I dare not say on a public forum, he's sunk that low in my opinion. And he did it all by himself, word by word and post by post.

AFA Jongsstraw is concerned: Yeah, like I said in the other thread, I too have wondered Whassup wit Jongsstraw? But Jongsstraw certainly isn't going to tell us, so it's just going to have to remain a mystery, most likely. I've also wondered, from time to time, whassup wit DT? And Niki? And Tony, and Frem, and Finn. And even you, Byte. When people's behavior changes, other people wonder. I wouldn't put too much on it except curiosity.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 6:23 AM

How is that different than any of the rest of us?! Have any of us personally stormed a torture facility and beaten the shit out of any guards and freed the victims? NOOO? Have we all refused to pay taxes to stop the practice? NOOO?

Our hands are just as bloody as AURAPTOR'S then. It doesn't matter if we SAY we're for or against torture, what matters is what we have DONE. And every single one of us has been sleeping comfy cozy in our jammies because we're all TALK.

So yeah, I don't buy that AURAPTOR is somehow worse than all of us. Isn't that just a convenient excuse to throw all kinds of invectives at him? But ultimately, what all has AURAPTOR actually DONE? Oh he VOTED in opposition to you when both sides actually allow torture to continue despite their campaign platforms. Oh how AWFUL.

NO one. On this board. DESERVES. To BE CALLED. A RAPIST.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 6:29 AM

...

...........

........

Unless they're a therapist.

Then we can probably legitimately call them "therapist."

But only then!

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Friday, May 31, 2013 7:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
How is that different than any of the rest of us?! Have any of us personally stormed a torture facility and beaten the shit out of any guards and freed the victims? NOOO? Have we all refused to pay taxes to stop the practice? NOOO?

Our hands are just as bloody as AURAPTOR'S then. It doesn't matter if we SAY we're for or against torture, what matters is what we have DONE. And every single one of us has been sleeping comfy cozy in our jammies because we're all TALK.

So yeah, I don't buy that AURAPTOR is somehow worse than all of us. Isn't that just a convenient excuse to throw all kinds of invectives at him? But ultimately, what all has AURAPTOR actually DONE? Oh he VOTED in opposition to you when both sides actually allow torture to continue despite their campaign platforms. Oh how AWFUL.

NO one. On this board. DESERVES. To BE CALLED. A RAPIST.

Byte, I admire your efforts. You're an adult, and they're like spoiled children. There's nothing you can do. You can never win. They outnumber you and they are obsessively relentless. Tread carefully. I'm not worth you losing your acceptable standing, and I'm sure AURaptor would say the same.

"Y'know, when I address a post of mine to Jongsstraw, he almost always replies and when he does, he does so with all the grace and civility I could hope for." - HKCavalier 5/29/13

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Friday, May 31, 2013 7:40 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
How is that different than any of the rest of us?! Have any of us personally stormed a torture facility and beaten the shit out of any guards and freed the victims? NOOO? Have we all refused to pay taxes to stop the practice? NOOO?

Our hands are just as bloody as AURAPTOR'S then. It doesn't matter if we SAY we're for or against torture, what matters is what we have DONE. And every single one of us has been sleeping comfy cozy in our jammies because we're all TALK.

There is a rather large spectrum between torturing people and storming the Bastille. To say that if you're not doing one or the other you're doing "nothing" is either naive or disingenuous. Large changes have been wrought by many people doing a variety of things. Look at the civil rights movement, the antiwar movement, the "womens' lib" movement and the environmental movement. Some people were on the front lines, others were conducting voter registration drives, writing letters to the editor etc. When I was young, I demonstrated. Now that I have responsibilities, I have to be more careful. Even so, I was followed by the FBI. Apparently, I'm doing something more than nothing.

Quote:
So yeah, I don't buy that AURAPTOR is somehow worse than all of us.

I DO.

Quote:
Isn't that just a convenient excuse to throw all kinds of invectives at him? But ultimately, what all has AURAPTOR actually DONE? Oh he VOTED in opposition to you when both sides actually allow torture to continue despite their campaign platforms. Oh how AWFUL.

Like the environmental movement or other movements, rappy is a foot-soldier of a different kind of movement: the kind of movement that believes in torturing, genocide, and giving absolutely nothing back to the society from which it draws so much. If I may Godwin the board, when people look back at Nazi Germany, they see that there were different levels of complicity. Rappy is a willing advocate. So let's call a spade a spade, shall we? It's not invective if it's true.

Quote:
NO one. On this board. DESERVES. To BE CALLED. A RAPIST.

For the sake of argument: What if you're a rapist? I am reasonably certain that there is at least one person on this board who has killed. Is s/he not then a murderer?

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Friday, May 31, 2013 7:50 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Jongsstraw- this conversation is no longer about you, it's about ethics.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 7:54 AM

But Mommie Dearest, why can't I use a wire hanger?

"Y'know, when I address a post of mine to Jongsstraw, he almost always replies and when he does, he does so with all the grace and civility I could hope for." - HKCavalier 5/29/13

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Jongsstraw- this conversation is no longer about you, it's about ethics.

Ethics? Well that's easy. You have none.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well jongsstraw, you tried to paint yourself as the victim that poor, brave, little Bytemite was defending all by her lonesome. Self-important much? We weren't talking about you, we were talking about rappy. In fact, I suspect we weren't even really talking about rappy, we were talking about Byte.

As far as ethics are concerned, do you have anything to say on the topic?

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:14 AM

I didn't start this stupid thread with my name in it did I? I've been here seven years. When did I ever want anything to be about me? But here it is now, so deal.

"Y'know, when I address a post of mine to Jongsstraw, he almost always replies and when he does, he does so with all the grace and civility I could hope for." - HKCavalier 5/29/13

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:23 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Weird.

Quote:
This, after I just bawled out........and after I had to yell at..........

So, let me get this straight; because YOU bawled someone out, and feel you "had to" yell at someone, what?

Don't get me wrong; I despise anyone being called a rapist and decry it loudly. I think it's disgusting. It's the connection to YOU, to you "bawling" people out, that fascinates me. What are you trying to say by that?

While I despise a number of the nasty monikers people here have given others, and think "Rapey" is the single worst, WE CAN'T CONTROL OTHERS, okay? No calls for peace, no pointing fingers, no judging of others as better or worse than someone else is going to MAKE people do what you want.

Just...weird.

ETA: Both of these threads have now become about Byte, it seems to me, as much as anything else. If you think about that, doesn't that tell you something, maybe something about your self-claimed "irrelevance" here?

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:29 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
As far as ethics are concerned, do you have anything to say on the topic?-SIGNY

Apparently not.

BYTE- I'm really interested in why you're so invested in defending rappy.

NIKI

Quote:
Don't get me wrong; I despise anyone being called a rapist and decry it loudly.

If someone is a murderer, you would call them a murderer, not? If someone is a rapist, you would call them a rapist, correct? If someone is a co-conspirator to those crimes, you would call them that, not? Or if not, why not? And what WOULD you call them?

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Friday, May 31, 2013 9:19 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
USING RAPE AS AN AD HOMINEM WHY ARGHABLE You're all better than this!
Is rape worse than torture? Rappy deserves it, Byte, and more.

Yep. This is too much, sig, and sorry to say it puts you in the loser column. Rappy isn't hurt by being called any names, he just jumps up and down in glee that he's pushed your buttons. You've given him what he wants.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 9:22 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

MAL4-

Whatever. I'm not trying to hurt rappy.

But let me Godwin this thread, again. Let's say that Rappy's not a brownshirt. He's not marching in the streets. But he's on the sidelines, cheering the parade, hanging banners, writing letters to the editor, and donating to the cause. And he's STILL there, cheering on the Fuhrer even as greasy smoke is pouring out of camp smokestacks. The several hundred-thousand dead in Iraq are not exactly inhuman, although everyone here seems to think of them with as much regard as the average German thought of the Jew.

If that were rappy... advocate and willing supporter of genocide and war... what would you call him then?

Not a rapist, but what?

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Friday, May 31, 2013 10:01 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4-

Whatever. I'm not trying to hurt rappy.

But let me Godwin this thread, again. Let's say that Rappy's not a brownshirt. He's not marching in the streets. But he's on the sidelines, cheering the parade, hanging banners, writing letters to the editor, and donating to the cause. And he's STILL there, cheering on the Fuhrer even as greasy smoke is pouring out of camp smokestacks. The several hundred-thousand dead in Iraq are not exactly inhuman, although everyone here seems to think of them with as much regard as the average German thought of the Jew.

If that were rappy... advocate and willing supporter of genocide and war... what would you call him then?

Not a rapist, but what?

Part of a mob of insanity, I guess?

Please keep this in mind: I do not think that Rappy believes half (at least) of what he posts here. Either he makes it up on purpose or he does it subconsciously because he has such a clinical need for attention. Whatever - it is clear that logic and consequences mean nothing to him, and he is completely incapable of recognizing that the agenda he pushes does real and horrible harm.

He's a lot like his heroes Limbaugh and O'Reilly. They say shit that makes no sense because it gets them attention and money. And yes, these people have done material damage to the world. But the consequences do not even compute for them. They are incapable of recognizing that there are victims of their behavior, because they cannot see beyond themselves.

I am disgusted by the lot of them and hope their breed is dying off as we further enter the age of enlightenment. But to compare to them to someone who would rape?

Come on now Sig. I can't believe you'd go there. You really don't see the difference? It's so beyond belief for me that I don't know to explain it, not without going places I'm not going to go. It's Friday, and I have things to do that are actually fun.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 10:06 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rappy is willing to rape, if not actually then metaphorically (economically, politically). He is willing to have OTHERS use extreme force on his behalf: rape, torture, murder, starvation, if necessary. Torture and murder have been committed with his approval. Whether it "computes" with him or not, he has to bear the responsibility of his choices and his advocacy- just like Limbaugh and Goebbels. "Accountability", right?

People have died, MAL4. Real people. Women clinging to their dead children, old men trying to plow their fields, hapless neighbors who got sold into Guantanamo to settle old scores. Whether or not we want to see it, it's happened with our name on it. How can I NOT go there? Who would approve of such a thing? Well, Rappy, apparently, with a vengeance!

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Friday, May 31, 2013 10:26 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sig; your question is irrelevant. There is no proof Rap is a rapist, so calling him one is denying "innocent until proven guilty". As Mal4 says, we don't even know what he ACTUALLY believes, only what he spouts here, and the same is true of all of us.

Second, this IS a fucking FORUM BOARD. If you want to class yourself with the Wulfes, Sixes and--damn, I keep forgetting his name...was it Kane?--anyway, if you want to class yourself with them, it's certainly your right and privilege. Just don't expect anyone to respect you, including myself. That kind of incivility has no excuse, in my book, it only makes matters worse AND makes anyone you align yourself with embarrassed to acknowledge you. It's a goddamned forum board, on the internet, and you could say ALL of us should be called rapists/murderers/whatever because we allowed our government to do things in our names, or whatever, depending on what your criteria was. It's ridiculous.

In other words, if someone writes something, for whatever reason--even if it's just to be contrarian, because they're ignorant or propagandized--if it's something which supports something which YOU have judged as evil, it makes it okay to be as vicious as you want and call them any name you choose? Wow, that underlined part? You just became Wulf.

So Sig, now YOU seem to be headed over the cliff the last few days. I'm not going to start a "what's up with Sig" thread, I consider that stupid, but are you aware that you have become considerably more rabid lately? Because that's my impression, for whatever it's worth or not worth.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 10:36 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I'm not going to start a "what's up with Sig" thread

HAHAHA!

NIKI, if people here advocate murder (and they do) it's no excuse to say "This is just a forum" or "I was just funnin'". People need to bear some moral responsibility for their statements, do they not?

And, no, I'm not say that rappy is a rapist. (At least not as far as I know.) What I'm saying is that all is NOT forgiven because it's "just talk". What people advocate, what they teach others and reinforce in eachother is consequential. One of the causes of the massacre in Rwanda was what was broadcast on the radio day after day. Of such was the massacre in Rawanda made. With the benefit of hindsight on genocidal movements across the world, they were all begun with words.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 11:08 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
People need to bear some moral responsibility for their statements, do they not?

Not on the internet.

Not in today's world (especially on the internet).

If they were, millions of people would be in tons of hot water--probably in jail, would they not? The internet is like a giant unmoderated forum; people write things they wouldn't dream of saying in public, threaten people they've never met and wouldn't dream of threatening if they knew, and on and on, because they know they're never held responsible.

All I'm saying is, if you go with the attitude in the sentence I underlined, YOU are also absolving YOURSELF of responsibility (especially as there is no proof Rap is a rapist) and you ARE proclaiming yourself equivalent to Wulf...and Kane, if I remembered his name right. And Six.

The option is yours; personally I wouldn't behave like any of them simply because it's wrong and it's not who I would ever choose to be, but we each have to choose for ourselves.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 12:10 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hey, how many times do I have to say that rappy isn't a rapist? (As far as I know.)

But does that mean he SHOULD get a free pass on being a morally reprehensible creature?

Many years ago, on this site, there was a long discussion on demonizing the opposition. The basic concept was that once you reduce the opposition to "demons"- as rappy has reduced Muslims- you make it easier to dehumanize them, and eventually to take actions against them that you would never take if you recognized their full humanity. It was posited to be a terrible moral failing to even characterize other people's beliefs.

Yanno what? That ship has sailed. The rightwing already demonizes everyone and everything that doesn't fit into its narrow mindset- gays, muslims, leftists- yanno, whoever is the enemy de jour. It makes not a whit of difference to THEIR process whether the left does the same thing. And frankly, what they say and what they advocate is a danger to everyone else.

I don't mean some theoretical danger. We have killed real people, Niki. Lost of them. All because people like rappy panicked. He STILL defends to this day. What is the response to THAT?

--------------

I guess what I'm saying is... let's not political correctness get in the way of understanding with great clarity what we are seeing, and then describing it with profound lucidity.

We are an imperialist nation. I don't mean this in a theoretical way; it is a matter of life and death (mostly death) when we decide to "intervene". Our military has killed at least a hundred thousand people in the past ten years, so this is not ancient history. These interventions are just as real, and just as present as the concentration camps were in Nazi Germany. How do so many people fail to see what is plainly in front of their eyes?

Let's look at rappy and what he stands for-

torture

rendition

surveillance

genocide

death for the poor

death for future generations, if climate change is as catastrophic as predicted

keeping "what is his"

corporate hegemony

If smoke wasn't already pouring out of the crematoria (in a figurative sense) this would be just lunacy. But armies are marching, drones are flying, people are getting killed, and there is rappy, standing at the curbside and waving his little American flag. In the future, people will look in horror at people like him, and ask the same question that they now ask of Nazi Germany.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 3:23 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hey, how many times do I have to say that rappy isn't a rapist? (As far as I know.)

Sig, to repeat the conversation:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
USING RAPE AS AN AD HOMINEM WHY ARGHABLE You're all better than this!
Is rape worse than torture? Rappy deserves it, Byte, and more.

By which you pretty clearly meant that he deserves the ad hominem you used: rapist. If you now say you didn't mean that, I'm very glad that you didn't. But if you don't want people to think that you are accusing someone of being a rapist, don't use the word in your posts and then say they deserve it to be called that.

Know what I mean?

Quote:
But does that mean he SHOULD get a free pass on being a morally reprehensible creature?

Yanno what? That ship has sailed.

Yeah, he's a fucking tool and a pathetic creature. But don't go calling him a rapist, is my point. It's insulting to people other than him, and it debases you most of all.

You've stepped dangerously close to territory that one of our Canadian posters once trod: saying that Americans deserve to be bombed and killed because of GWB. Yes, America has done reprehensible things. Doesn't mean every American should be blamed for it and killed.

RWA conservatives have done reprehensible things. Doesn't mean that some lonely jackboot incendiary troll on an out-of-the-way sci-fi TV show fansite should be called a rapist. Frankly, it's insulting to those who have actually experienced rape. You ought not go there, if you ever want to be taken seriously.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:00 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Doesn't mean that some lonely jackboot incendiary troll on an out-of-the-way sci-fi TV show fansite should be called a rapist. Frankly, it's insulting to those who have actually experienced rape. You ought not go there, if you ever want to be taken seriously.

I guess the people whose family members have been killed by our military should just siddown and shaddup, then? Death isn't serious enough for you?
I don't get your sense of proportion.

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Friday, May 31, 2013 8:55 PM