REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

About that "shutting down the government"...

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 01:13
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Saturday, August 17, 2013 8:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I found this a really fascinating political analysis, and it makes sense:
Quote:

Since the moment the idea was floated by a handful of conservative lawmakers, House Republican leaders have been wary of the tea-party plan to shut down the federal government this fall unless Obamacare is defunded. Speaker John Boehner of Ohio, a veteran of the Gingrich wars, has never been eager to go there, nor has Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia. But they didn’t immediately storm out of their offices and nix the pitch. Instead, due to the fragility of the bonds holding the House GOP together, they have labored behind the scenes, pouring cold water in careful measure on their colleagues’ boiling brinksmanship. By late last week, House insiders say Boehner and Cantor had talked much of their conference away from the edge. “No one is advocating a government shutdown,” Cantor assured me on Friday.

Keeping the roiling House GOP united and away from the shutdown temptation in the weeks ahead won’t be easy, especially as the Beltway’s ever-increasing crowd of conservative organizations prod Republicans to shut down the government as a statement of principle. But my cloakroom sources tell me they’re now confident that House Republicans will not tread into a shutdown battle with the Obama White House. GOP firebrands may threaten a shutdown and theatrically insist it remains an option, but the party’s private appetite for one, even among the right flank, is dissipating. “The electorate expects Congress to govern,” explains pollster David Winston, a longtime adviser to the House leadership. “House Republicans are going to offer their health-care alternatives within that process.”

The House leadership’s aversion to the tea-party plan is driven not only by strategy but also by the fear that having a debate on tactics would devolve into a Republican civil war. Boehner and Cantor, in conversations with fellow members, have reportedly warned that a shutdown would almost undoubtedly end in intraparty strife, owing to the Senate’s Democratic majority. To pass a vote on defunding Obamacare, Republicans would need 14 Senate Democrats to join them, and if Democrats declined, all blame, the thinking goes, would fall back on the House GOP for refusing to pass legislation to fund federal services. In all likelihood, Republicans would then be pressured to rush through a continuing resolution, only to get hit with recriminations and chaos in the wake of a shutdown.

This delicate political situation has forced Boehner and Cantor to work against the shutdown caucus but without antagonizing it. It’s a wink-wink kabuki dance of the highest order. They can’t alienate their conservative members who have been enthralled by the shutdown talk of Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, but they can’t have them dictating the fiscal negotiations, either.

A key date in the leadership’s nearly month-long effort was Wednesday, July 31, one of the last days before the House adjourned for the August recess. Two important things happened within an eight-hour period: Boehner calmed the waters at a conference meeting, and Cantor met with conservative leaders over lunch. The net effect of these gestures was to give Republican power brokers, inside and outside Congress, a coherent, if unofficial, understanding of the leadership’s position before members headed home — and before the chatter became a clamor.

In the early morning, Boehner went before House Republicans for a closed-door session in the Capitol basement and outlined his approach. It was Boehner’s most direct statement in weeks about the “defund or shutdown” discussion. He pulled the focus away from the tactic of using shutdown as leverage for defunding the law and argued instead for “well-placed, targeted strikes that will ultimately dissolve the Obamacare coalition". “We’ll have to stick together and communicate,” he said. “But this strategy is achievable. And it’s our best shot at actually getting rid of Obamacare.” Afterward, several members, notably a group of centrist Republicans from targeted districts, approached Boehner and his inner circle and thanked them for trying to usher the party away from a shutdown.

Members were also buzzing about the leadership’s emerging strategy for the autumn talks. Sources tell me the House GOP will probably avoid using a shutdown as leverage and instead use the debt limit and sequester fights as areas for potential legislative trades.

Later Wednesday, around noon, Cantor headed to the Weyrich lunch, an off-the-record gathering of conservative-movement leaders chaired by Morton Blackwell, the president of the Leadership Institute. Cantor talked about the shutdown question in a clinical way, telling the conservatives that he was with them on tearing apart and delaying the law wherever possible, but he didn’t want to risk the House GOP’s political capital on an unwinnable play for Senate votes.

A day later, on August 1, the “Big Four,” as the group of four top-ranking House Republicans is known, met to go over the events of the previous day and the state of play, pre-recess. Boehner reflected on the relative peace of the conference meeting, and Cantor relayed stories from his lunch. Whip Kevin McCarthy of California and conference chair Cathy McMorris-Rodgers of Washington relayed what they were hearing from members. The consensus from the Big Four was that they’d keep moving ahead with their soft push to avoid a shutdown. They’ll aim to nudge the GOP caucus in this direction, and hope members will see it their way once the House reconvenes. Excerpts from http://nationalreview.com/node/355632/print]


Unfortunately,
Quote:

Conservatives Revolt As GOP Tries To Calm Obamacare Shutdown Mania

Just when they seemed to have the situation under control, Republican leaders are facing the wrath of conservatives who are furious that the heads of the party aren’t interested in risking a government shutdown over Obamacare this fall.

Conservative anxieties over the Affordable Care Act are reaching a boil as the law’s major provisions are set to take effect in the coming months. And an all-out grassroots mobilization during the month-long August recess by wealthy right-leaning groups like FreedomWorks and Heritage Action appears to be having an impact. Republican lawmakers have said their constituents are demanding they hold the line.

Michael Burgess (R-TX), who has influence within his caucus on health policy, said the support for the defunding push was “virtually unanimous.”

The Senate Conservatives Fund, a tea party group founded by former Sen. Jim DeMint, planned to launch a statewide campaign targeting Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), who is up for re-election next year, and aimed at making him “feel the heat” over Obamacare. The Kentuckian recently observed that a government shutdown “won’t stop Obamacare.”

Meanwhile, FreedomWorks has been keeping a tally of where GOP lawmakers stand on the issue. And Heritage Action’s CEO Michael Needham questioned the fortitude of House Republicans for backing away on the Obamacare shutdown push.

All of this makes it harder for Republicans to avoid a shutdown without compromising their standing among the conservative base. If nothing else, it raises the bar on the sorts of demands they’ll have to make, and the brinkmanship they’ll have to engage in, when it comes time to raise the country’s borrowing limit later this fall.

And expending their political capital on averting needless crises significantly harms the prospects of House GOP leaders marshaling immigration reform through the chamber, a project their conservative base is pushing hard to scuttle. More at http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/08/conservatives-revolt-obamac
are-shutdown.php



Ooops. Who was it again who said the GOP has no intention of shutting down the government?

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Saturday, August 17, 2013 10:36 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Seems like every time somebody bluffs a shutdown, they talk about "except Social Security." Because Senior Citizens are watching. Many seniors are social conservatives, don't go for integration, immigration or gay rights. So they're natural Republicans. And they VOTE. And they're ORGANIZED.

But they're watching their SS checks like hawks, often because that's what they're surviving on. And a media story about the shutdown will always have a sentence about, "Social Security checks will stop being mailed Tuesday."

All the Repubs have to do is actually shut it down for a few days, stop mailing those SS checks, and they'll lose another key constituency.

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Saturday, August 17, 2013 10:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



And there in lies the danger that is the ponzi scheme of social security.

This nation has been sold a monstrous lie, and none of the politicians wants to come clean and admit it.

We can't pay for this any more, and something absolutely needs to be done about it.

But no one has the political stones ( even though W gave a half hearted attempt ) to deal w/ the problem.

Too many are now under the delusion that SS is THEIR money, when in fact, it isn't. That money they thought was being put away in some lock box has been spent, long ago.

See that 17 trillion dollar pile of debt ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, August 17, 2013 11:40 AM

FREMDFIRMA



You know why BOTH "sides" avoid a shutdown at all costs ?

Cause if it happens, and the world doesn't end, us peons get to thinking "why, exactly, do we supposedly 'need' these assholes anyways?" and heaven forfend anyone ask THAT armor piercing question, cause the answers bode no good for the powers that be, ever.

Just ask the Belgians.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100092281/going-without
-a-government-may-not-be-such-a-bad-thing
/
Quote:

Belgium has now gone for more than a year without a government and, you know what? Life is carrying on as normal. The crops are growing, the wheels are turning in the factories, the civil servants (there are lots of these) are lingering over their coffee and speculoos biscuits. A lighter than normal legislative agenda has given the country something of a boost: growth forecasts keep being upwardly revised, and the economy is expected to expand by 2.3 per cent this year.

Fact is, we don't need these fucking busybody parasite scum, particularly the GOP brand of fascist slime, and if we as a people ever figure that out, they're totally fucked, so neither "side" ever wants an actual shutdown, it's all just bullshit and shellgames.

-Frem

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Saturday, August 17, 2013 11:43 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
See that 17 trillion dollar pile of debt ?


Oh, you mean the leftovers from your pet fellatio targets wholly unnecessary and RELIGIOUSLY inspired war that you cheered on for all you were worth until it was no longer POLITICIALLY convenient and then bailed out on and lied about like the cowardly little bitch we all know you to be ?
Yeah.

So hows about turning out YOUR pockets to pay for it, instead of demanding the Government steal from ME, to pay for it, motherfucker ?

Yeah, I thought not.

-Frem

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Sunday, August 18, 2013 2:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The fascists are on the Left,( using the IRS to target political opponents, spying on citizens, droning US citizens and their children ) small one. But do continue to work yourself up into a twisted heap over your deranged imaginations.

Motherfucker.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Rap: "I said I'd TRY. ... I'm making an honest effort"

Sad to see you proving me right when I doubted you had any intention of even trying, much less "making an honest effort".

There's a thread you might find very interesting called "Agree or Disagree?" You should give it a listen.




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Sunday, August 18, 2013 8:02 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Frem,

Perhaps the best argument I've heard anywhere in quite some time. "These assholes" (the Republican ones at least) don't know what they are playing with. It is a ticking "timebomb" of a topic, and they are about to set if off.

My guess is that they haven't heard the phrase "let sleeping dogs lie," because oh brother. Do you suppose that's the Tea Party's aim? I see nothing but trouble for the traditional sense of government, and a gearing up toward civil disobedience and civil unrest. The establishment are scared shitless, hence the do-nothing approach.

The established politicians have painted themselves into a corner. This should be interesting.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

You know why BOTH "sides" avoid a shutdown at all costs ?

Cause if it happens, and the world doesn't end, us peons get to thinking "why, exactly, do we supposedly 'need' these assholes anyways?" and heaven forfend anyone ask THAT armor piercing question, cause the answers bode no good for the powers that be, ever.

Just ask the Belgians.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100092281/going-without
-a-government-may-not-be-such-a-bad-thing
/
Quote:

Belgium has now gone for more than a year without a government and, you know what? Life is carrying on as normal. The crops are growing, the wheels are turning in the factories, the civil servants (there are lots of these) are lingering over their coffee and speculoos biscuits. A lighter than normal legislative agenda has given the country something of a boost: growth forecasts keep being upwardly revised, and the economy is expected to expand by 2.3 per cent this year.

Fact is, we don't need these fucking busybody parasite scum, particularly the GOP brand of fascist slime, and if we as a people ever figure that out, they're totally fucked, so neither "side" ever wants an actual shutdown, it's all just bullshit and shellgames.

-Frem


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Sunday, August 18, 2013 8:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, I'm sorry, but I condemn Frem's various tantrums here and in other threads, there is no excuse for them. And we ain't Belgium, by a LONG shot, so his comparison totally fails.

I don't like politicians and I'm frustrated and angry too at the idea they might shut down the government...as they KEEP threatening to do...to get their way and kill what is the law of the land. That doesn't excuse acting like an asshole.


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Monday, August 19, 2013 7:12 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Condemn it all you like - just as I condemn your abject hypocrisy in that your own words and actions have revealed beyond any doubt that your problem isn't with the rightwingnuts abuses of power so much as the fact that the ability to do so isn't in YOUR hands.

Yeah verily, I am not a nice person, and on occasion quite, quite vicious, sure.
But the simple fact remains that if the leash was handed from corporate looter scum like the folk Rappy worships and fellates, to folks like you, the AMOUNT of abuses wouldn't change a goddamn bit, only the particular structure of them...
This is *why* Anthony left, you know, his realization that the so-called "good guys' just wanted the leash in their OWN hands so that THEY could deprive folks of their rights so completely horrified him that he started to have a breakdown over it, that he was allied with folks not a single whit better than the very folks whom he thought were a veritable font of evil.

Sure, we're not Belgium, but most issues are BEST handled on a local level by folks, politicians and otherwise who are more familiar with both the issue and the implications, instead of uncaring shitheads 2000 miles away who's only thought is how they can profit by it - but severing power from that horde isn't in the cards for you, since your eventual hope is to have the end of that leash land in the hands of you and yours so you can abuse it against the folks and rights that YOU don't like.
And I find that terribly offensive given that my intention is to cut the damn thing and pitch it in a a fire - and no, I do *NOT* find any claims to the converse from you credible given your own behavior, sorry.

Despite the fact that we're daggers drawn here, I do like you personally, and in any push to improve and increase human freedom you couldn't ask for a better ally, the very moment that little hypocrisy of not liking certain rights, or certain people, or how they USE those rights rears its ugly head and shows your TRUE colors as just one more tyrant, hell yes I will "turn on you", cause I was never on your "side" to begin with, but on the side of human freedom - even for freedoms YOU do not like, even for the freedoms of people YOU don't like, even when they use them in fashions that YOU do not like - but heaven forfend if someone turns right round and applies the *exact same logic* unto you, which tells me all I ever needed to know, if I even 'needed' to know it to begin with.

So yeah, imma asshole, you knew this from day one - but of course it was a whole different story when you thought I would be useful to your agenda of aquiring power to abuse it against others, and then all of the sudden when it became clear I was NOT going to just meekly play along, that I really WOULD support human freedom over any biases and discriminations, EVEN YOURS, then I became the enemy, hrmmm ?

Goverment is a machinegun sitting on the debate table.
Politics is the fight over who gets to point it at who and FORCE them to do what they're told.

Me, I want that fucker yanked off the table and melted down - I don't wanna point it at ANYONE.
If this makes me your "enemy" then Halle-Fucking-Loo-Yaah.
Asshole on the other hand, that's *MY* choice, *MY* freedom, you can't *MAKE* me do, or not do, anything at all, and thanks be for that, cause what a sick sad world this is when folks seem to think they can MAKE everyone behave.....

-Frem

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Monday, August 19, 2013 7:42 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:


Ooops. Who was it again who said the GOP has no intention of shutting down the government?



As always, when presented with proof of his own lies - rappy ignores it, and starts calling names.

A child pretending to be an adult, and failing.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:13 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Gov't Shutdown Averted: President Biden signed into law a short-term spending bill,funding gov't past tonight's midnight deadline thru Dec. 30th. By signing the CR into law,it gives Congress more time to send over legislation the House passed today to fund gov't thru Sept. to WH.

https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/status/1606389807751446528

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