REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

HealthCare.gov Estimates May Be Misleading

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Monday, December 2, 2013 21:20
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Sunday, November 24, 2013 10:24 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Browsers beware: The estimated monthly premiums on HealthCare.gov may be misleading.

The troubled federal website allows visitors to anonymously surf the site for exchange plans sold in their areas and provides them with estimated prices for each health plan. (Just click on the “See Plans Now” button on the homepage and follow instructions.) But here’s the problem: The monthly premium estimates provided on the website do not consider a person’s specific age, household size or tobacco use – all critical factors when estimating premiums.

HealthCare.gov visitors using the site’s window-shopping tool are repeatedly told that “the final premium you pay may be lower, perhaps much lower, than the prices shown” once they fill out an application and apply for government subsidies. But what the site doesn’t say is that the actual premium may be higher, perhaps much higher, than the estimated premiums shown on the site.

We knew estimates would vary from the actual premiums once customers create an account, provide personal information and obtain accurate price quotes. HealthCare.gov discloses that on the page titled “How can I see Marketplace health plans and prices before I fill out an application?”

But we didn’t know how useless the website’s window-shopper tool can be for certain consumers – a fact brought to our attention by ValuePenguin.com, a consumer finance website that provides its own comparison shopping tool for marketplace health plans. (Ezekiel J. Emanuel, a former White House adviser who helped design the Affordable Care Act, cites ValuePenguin.com and other alternatives to HealthCare.gov in a Nov. 15 article he coauthored on Politico called “Who Needs HealthCare.gov?”)

We decided to do a little comparison shopping of our own, based on the personal circumstances of two FactCheck.org staffers. (Important note: Nobody at FactCheck.org needs to shop on the individual market because, like most Americans, we get coverage through our employer — which in our case is the University of Pennsylvania.)

First example: 54-year-old man shopping for a health plan that would cover him, his 55-year-old wife and two dependent children (ages 14 and 21). The family lives in suburban Philadelphia. None is a smoker.

We first compared the estimated monthly premiums provided by HealthCare.gov with the estimates provided by ValuePenguin.com, and then went to the insurance company websites for actual price quotes.

For our family of four, HealthCare.gov offers six Silver plans: four Independence Blue Cross plans and two Aetna plans. (We considered only the Silver plans to keep it simple.) The HealthCare.gov estimates ranged from $708.84 per month to $982 per month.

Now, HealthCare.gov doesn’t ask for ages or even an age range when providing plan information and premium estimates for family coverage. All it wants to know is the visitor’s home state and county.

ValuePenguin.com asks for a little more information. Besides county and state, window shoppers have to provide household size, as well as ages and tobacco use for all family members. That website’s estimates were higher — much higher. A whopping 69 percent higher for each exchange plan. The premium range: $1,201.44 to $1,666 per month. (And, remember, that’s for a family of nonsmokers.)

We then went to Independence Blue Cross and Aetna websites to get actual quotes using their marketplace browsing features. Both websites asked for the same information as ValuePenguin.com — except that the insurance companies wanted birth dates, not just ages. We found, not surprisingly, that the insurers’ price quotes were almost exactly the same as the estimates provided by ValuePenguin.com. In fact, they were exactly correct in three of the four Blue Cross plans. ValuePenguin.com’s estimates were slightly off — lower by no more than 4 .5 percent — for the two Aetna plans.

Why was the HealthCare.gov website so far off the mark? The website discloses up front, while you are browsing for plans and prices, that the premium estimates are “based on a limited set of sample ages.” But potential customers would have to dig deeper into the website to find out what sample ages the tool uses. (Go to the homepage, scroll to the bottom until you see “Quick Information,” and click on “Health Plans” under the header “Plan Information for Individuals and Families.”)

In the case of a family of four, the website assumes that the husband and wife are both 30 years old. In our real life example, they are 55 and 54. That’s important because the Affordable Care Act says insurance companies can charge older Americans up to three times more than younger ones.

Of course, the closer a couple is to 30 years old, the better the estimate will be. And that brings us to our second example: a 29-year-old single man living in the city of Philadelphia.

In the case of single adults, HealthCare.gov asks one additional question that it does not ask of those seeking family coverage. It asks for an age range (“49 or under” or “50 or over”). It informs visitors at this point that “[p]remium amounts in this tool are based on specific ages,” but again you have to dig deeper to find that the specific ages are 27 for someone who selects “49 or under” and 50 for someone who selects “50 or over.”

In our second example, the 29-year-old man is close enough to age 27 that HealthCare.gov provided better estimates — but they were still too low. For six Silver plans, HealthCare.gov provided cost estimates that ranged from $209.85 to $291, while the insurance companies provided quotes ranging from $224.07 to $322. HealthCare.gov underestimated the actual cost of the Blue Cross plans by 7 percent and the Aetna plans by no more than 12 percent. (ValuePenguin.com provided a range of $224.07 to $310.71, which again was more accurate than the exchange.)

Yes, we know that HealthCare.gov tells visitors that these are merely estimates and actual prices may vary. At one point in the process, this caveat is provided:


Quote:

Important note: The monthly premiums shown DO NOT take into account your income and household details. Premium amounts shown in this tool are only examples, based on a limited set of sample ages and scenarios. They may not fully reflect your individual situation. Actual plan pricing can change based on your household size, income, ages, and tobacco use.


At no point during the process of browsing for plans and prices are visitors informed that they may pay more — in some cases much more — for insurance than the estimated prices shown on the site. But the site repeatedly tells visitors that the actual prices may be lower. Every page during the process of surfing for plans and prices carries a blue box that says:


Quote:

IMPORTANT NOTE: The prices shown on this tool don’t reflect the lower costs you may qualify for based on household size and income.

Most people who apply will pay lower monthly premiums than those shown here. Households with yearly incomes up to about $46,000 for individuals or $94,000 for a family of 4 will qualify for lower costs. You’ll get final quotes for specific plans based on your income and household after you complete a Marketplace application.



On one page — just before you see the plans and cost estimates — you are told twice about the possibility of lower costs. On that page, you get the “important note” above, plus this:


Quote:

Most people who apply will qualify for lower costs.

Most people who apply for coverage in the Marketplace will qualify for lower costs on monthly premiums based on their household size and income.

The chart on the right shows household sizes and income levels that qualify for lower costs. The lower your income within the ranges shown, the lower your premium costs will be.

Some people with lower incomes within these ranges will qualify to save money on out-of-pocket costs like deductibles and copayments.



It is true that many people seeking insurance on the individual market will receive government subsidies that will help offset the cost of insurance premiums. In an Aug. 14 report, the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation estimates that “about half (48%) of people now buying their own insurance would be eligible for a tax credit that would offset their premium.” In addition, more than 1 million people now buying their own insurance will be eligible for Medicaid, the report says.

“Among the approximately half of current enrollees who will be eligible for tax credits, the average subsidy would be $5,548 per family, which would reduce their premium for the second-lowest-cost silver premium by an average of 66%,” the KFF report says.

Those estimates don’t include people who are not currently part of the individual market but will buy coverage on the state and federal exchanges. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that altogether about 80 percent of the 25 million Americans with insurance exchange plans in 2023 will receive subsidies.

So, it is important for HealthCare.gov to inform them that they may be eligible for a subsidy that could lower their costs.

But, by failing to disclose the fact that actual premiums may be far more than the estimates provided on its site, HealthCare.gov has the potential to mislead those same families as well as others who won’t be eligible for subsidies at all.



http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/healthcare-gov-estimates-may-be-misle
ading
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Wednesday, November 27, 2013 7:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!




One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:45 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them


A real 3-ring circus!

Today Obama announced the "small business" (1-50 people) mandate will be delayed for one year. This comes after he delayed the "big business" mandate for a year. How long before he has to delay the individual mandate for 2014? When this occurs because of Healthcare.gov woes, they'll be right back to what House Republicans offered in one of the budgets the Senate rejected before the shutdown.

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Thursday, November 28, 2013 12:04 AM

JONGSSTRAW


*** BREAKING NEWS ***

HHS has just announced that the Obamcare website is fixed! Just go to the ACA address below and hit APPLY NOW!


http://home.roadrunner.com/~pjrpole/ACA.html

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Thursday, November 28, 2013 1:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
*** BREAKING NEWS ***

HHS has just announced that the Obamcare website is fixed! Just go to the ACA address below and hit APPLY NOW!


http://home.roadrunner.com/~pjrpole/ACA.html



I lol'd .

Good one.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 28, 2013 7:52 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


The site is up and running...even John Boehner was able to sign up.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 28, 2013 8:18 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The site is up and running...even John Boehner was able to sign up.



Partially up and sort'a running. http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-administration-healthcare.gov-will
-not-work-perfectly-dec.-1/article/2539765



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, November 28, 2013 3:37 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Partially up and sort'a running. http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-administration-healthcare.gov-will
-not-work-perfectly-dec.-1/article/2539765



So anything less than perfect is sort'a running?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 28, 2013 8:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Partially up and sort'a running. http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-administration-healthcare.gov-will
-not-work-perfectly-dec.-1/article/2539765



So anything less than perfect is sort'a running?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



Is Amazon running? Is ebay running ?

Yes.

O-Care ? Not so much.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 28, 2013 8:15 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
O-Care ? Not so much.



Funny how 8 out of 10 people using the site are now having few problems.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, November 28, 2013 8:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
O-Care ? Not so much.



Funny how 8 out of 10 people using the site are now having few problems.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



Funny how when Ice Queen Sibelius tried to use it, it didn't work.

Won't be fully fixed by the end of the month, either.

Another broken promise.


Another setback for health care website

Obama administration says site won't be able to enroll small businesses for another year

POSTED: 9:36 AM Nov 28 2013 UPDATED: 10:25 AM Nov 28 2013

http://www.wcyb.com/news/health-care-in-america/another-setback-for-he
alth-care-website/-/22689174/23200086/-/13jv5v2z/-/index.html


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 28, 2013 10:24 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Partially up and sort'a running. http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-administration-healthcare.gov-will
-not-work-perfectly-dec.-1/article/2539765
]

So anything less than perfect is sort'a running?





When the government is now telling folks not to try logging on to the site Dec. 01 because they'll overwhelm it, and the solution that does allow folks to sign up passes them off to insurers without any assurance that the estimate the site provides is accurate, less than perfect is sort of an understatement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/healthcaregov-te
ch-team-scrambling-to-create-workaround-for-site-before-deadline/2013/11/27/f5affc7c-577c-11e3-ba82-16ed03681809_story_1.html


And, as noted above, the small business site has been delayed for and entire year.

Then again, some of the states with their own exchanges aren't doing so well, either. Maryland's site might solve 'most' glitches by mid-December. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/most-glitches-in-md-on
line-health-exchangeshould-be-fixed-next-month-omalley-says/2013/11/27/66f19554-57a4-11e3-835d-e7173847c7cc_story.html


Oregon's site also isn't working yet. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obamacare-oregon-20131129,0,230063
7.story#axzz2m07eAOun


These folks had around three years to get ready for this, but they either started late, couldn't define requirements, tried to do too much too soon, or kept making changes way too late in the process. Other IT professionals I've talked to also saw this coming a mile away.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, December 2, 2013 4:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Just curious Geezer - did you have a problem with it when Bush did it - and not only did it intentionality, but also for political reasons? Or is this an issue you have only when a black democrat fumbles?



http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/19/republican-budget-hypocrisy-health-ca
re-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html


Republican Deficit Hypocrisy

... Recall the situation in 2003. The Bush administration was already projecting the largest deficit in American history–$475 billion in fiscal year 2004, according to the July 2003 mid-session budget review. But a big election was coming up that Bush and his party were desperately fearful of losing. So they decided to win it by buying the votes of America’s seniors by giving them an expensive new program to pay for their prescription drugs.

... spending for Medicare was projected to rise much more rapidly than the payroll tax as the baby boomers retired. ... but Republicans voted to vastly increase (costs) ... by $395 billion between 2004 and 2013.

However, the Bush administration knew this figure was not accurate because Medicare’s chief actuary, Richard Foster, had concluded, well before passage, that the more likely cost would be $534 billion. Tom Scully, a Republican political appointee at the Department of Health and Human Services, threatened to FIRE HIM if he dared to make that information public before the vote. (KIKI - Indeed, he was forbidden from bringing this figure to Congress during his testimony.)



As evidence of "rape mentality"

Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies.


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Monday, December 2, 2013 9:20 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Just curious Geezer - did you have a problem with it when Bush did it - and not only did it intentionality, but also for political reasons? Or is this an issue you have only when a black democrat fumbles?



Both "blame Bush" and "racist" in the same post?

I don't have a problem with getting more folks health care, I just have a problem with an on-line face for it that started development too late, was poorly planned, suffered from requirements creep, was pretty obviously not properly tested, and still doesn't work 100%. I spent over 20 years in government IT, and know that if we had delivered a product that didn't work on the delivery date and took two months to be '90%' effective, heads would have rolled.

Maybe you should wonder why the Administration had such a problem with a system that they had over three years to develop, and couldn't.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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