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Dutch spies alerted their American counterparts as early as 2014 about Russian hacking into State Department and White House computers and subsequent Russian hacking of the Democratic Party in the 2016 election, according to a series of reports in Dutch media.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You'd have to digitally remove the shotgun and replace it with a keyboard.

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On Friday, special counsel Robert S. Mueller III indicted 13 Russians who are accused of helping orchestrate the greatest foreign threat to U.S. democracy in modern history.

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In his first year in office, President Trump incorrectly called Russia’s attack on American democracy a hoax 44 times. He tweeted that “Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems.”

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The indictment document blows up such absurd myths once and for all. It connects names with dates and events, describes Russian-organized real-world rallies that Americans attended, and chronicles stolen identities and nefarious bank transfers.

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Americans of all political stripes must see this charging document as a wake-up call. We must not let partisan divides between Republicans and Democrats blind us to the threat, nor bind us to inaction.

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We’re in a fight to save our democracy from foreign attacks — and currently we are doing absolutely nothing to fight back.

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Mueller’s indictment outlines a sophisticated

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operation with three primary goals: to help elect Donald Trump as president of the United States; to undermine faith in our democratic institutions;

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and to stoke polarization by turning Americans against one another.

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Each of these goals shares a common overarching aim: to weaken the United States by sowing chaos and division in ways that benefit Russia.

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According to the federal charges, Russians organized pro-Trump rallies. Their operatives were directed to “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary” Clinton on social media. They communicated with “unwitting members” of the Trump campaign and got them to spread Russia-created content. They worked to spread lies about voter fraud around the same time that Trump began spreading those lies himself. And they even paid Americans to attend pro-Trump rallies, including one who was paid to attend a rally dressed up as Clinton in a prison uniform.

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Millions of people, online and offline, had interactions with people they believed to be Americans who were actually Russians, bots created by them or actual Americans unwittingly paid by Russians.

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We will never know for sure whether the Kremlin’s influence campaign proved decisive in a close election decided by roughly 80,000 voters across three states. But that’s beside the point; we don’t absolve attempted murder just because the victim happens to survive.

But to suggest, as many in Trumpworld do, that not a single American voter was swayed by this three-year-long, carefully orchestrated, wide-reaching information-warfare campaign is a dangerous fantasy — because it downplays the menace that this new kind of threat poses to our democratic system. If you successfully attack the democratic system, you attack the mechanism by which every other decision is made, from tax policy to nuclear weapons. Imagine Pearl Harbor, except that the proverbial flames could engulf our ability to make our own free-thinking democratic choices for years.

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Trump and his ardent supporters, of course, are eager to downplay the threat. Because the Russians tried to help Trump win, they want to pretend it was minor, unimportant and unworthy of a response. That helps explain why Trump failed to impose sanctions that Congress passed with overwhelming bipartisan support, why he bizarrely proposed setting up a joint cybersecurity task force with the same government that conducted a major cyberattack against the United States and why he keeps acting as Russian President Vladimir Putin’s chief apologist in the West.

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But we cannot afford to view foreign attacks on U.S. democracy through a partisan lens.

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U.S. intelligence leaders warned this week that the Kremlin’s operations continue today.

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It’s striking that the indictment says the Russian operatives stoked polarization by backing left-wing political events after Trump was elected, hoping to drive a wedge between Americans. Russia benefits if American society tears itself apart, holding rallies to attack one another rather than rallying together to protect democracy from foreign attacks.

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The Trump administration’s strategy of defending the Kremlin rather than defending American democracy has sent a clear signal to Moscow. Putin has no reason to stop and every reason to get more aggressive. The Russians’ last operations were effective and solicited no meaningful consequences. By enabling Putin rather than deterring him, Trump has effectively rolled out the digital red carpet for more information warfare in the upcoming midterm elections.

Finally, it’s worth noting that the Mueller indictment of 13 Russians does not in any way resolve the question of whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia or any aspects of Mueller’s investigation related to obstruction of justice.

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What it does make clear is that Russia wants to undermine American democracy. We are letting Russia do so. It’s time not only to fight back — but also to try to find common ground, uniting at least on this issue, to protect the democratic values and democratic system that most of us cherish, before it’s too late.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Dutch spies alerted their American counterparts as early as 2014 about Russian hacking into State Department and White House computers and subsequent Russian hacking of the Democratic Party in the 2016 election, according to a series of reports in Dutch media.

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And our security state did what?
Nothing?

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3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff. 13 Russian indictments, with many more indictments to come sig.

Some of us here have been sounding the alarm, while you sig, while you, are one of the ones saying nothing to see here.

Trump is innocent but Obama is guilty? Pathetic


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Originally posted by THGRRI:
3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff.

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But nothing to do at all with 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. So why would you misrepresent the facts, again?

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Yet kiki, yet as far as Trump goes. As far as the russians go, 13 indictments so far.


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Originally posted by THGRRI:
3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
But nothing to do at all with 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. So why would you misrepresent the facts, again?

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Yet kiki, yet as far as Trump goes.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
But nothing to do at all with 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. So why would you misrepresent the facts, again?

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Yet kiki, yet as far as Trump goes.

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So, I'm glad you agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'.

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EXCEPT 13 RUSSIANS HAVE BEEN INDICTED.


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Originally posted by 1kiki:
So I'm glad you agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'.

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I just love this back and forth. It shows you can't counter facts. That now as always, you lie.

13 russians indicted. Your delusional state can't change that comrade. So sad, so so said. Except I'm laying on the floor laughing. 13 russians indicted.


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Originally posted by 1kiki:
And I'm glad you STILL agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'.

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Oops, I forgot. Besides 13 Russians being indicted, 3 Russian companies were as well. My bad


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Originally posted by 1kiki:
And I'm glad you STILL agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. Despite your desperation to incite anti-Trump passions, there is, still no there there.

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Trumps saying the same thing. Hard to miss you two are on the same page, Putins' page. The large number of tweets after Mueller's most recent indictments shows he is under great stress. Tick tock Trump, tick tock kiki.


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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Except I've been saying this for months, ever since this whole witch hunt began. I KNOW! It means he must be reading my posts! I must be Trump's secret Russian advisor! /sarcasm

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Right I know. I am saying you and others have been calling the Russian investigation a witch hunt just like Trump. I'm also saying that sentiment is one of Putin's talking points. It is also the same response of the Russian diplomats.

Our government is saying, 13 Russians indicted along with 3 Russian companies with more to come comrade. We have not heard anything yet concerning wiki leaks or the DNC hacking. We agree...you are posting Putins talking points.


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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've been calling the COLLUSION CLAIMS a witch hunt designed to get Trump out of office and undo the election.

Not that you understand the difference between those two ideas. It's too subtle for you.

But no - Russians also did not 'hack' the election, unless you want to call freely exchanged ideas in a democracy 'hacking'. Though I suppose you do. 'Cause to you, it doesn't matter if an idea is backed by evidence - or not. All you care about is that YOUR SIDE gets to tell the ONLY story. All you care about is there will be only approved sources with approved messages; you don't care about the veracity of the content.

In other words, you want Russian-style US government censorship, and Russian-style US government propaganda. Anything less is unthinkable to you.

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I am aware. I am aware of you and others spinning and denying all the truths unveiled about Trump, his cronies, and the Russians by the media since before the election. This is just more of the same.

13 Russians are indicted along with 3 Russian companies and your response is not about that, but instead about what charges were not included in the indictments. Same talking points as Trump and the Russians.

Spin, meaningless, so what, that shit's yet to come. Another thing I am acutely aware of is that you and others, have yet to show any concerns regarding anything the Russians have done, nothing zip. Your concern is always for how the Russians are negatively depicted in my and others posts.

Why is that comrade? I'll tell you why. Because some of us here saw through you from the beginning. Russian troll, you and sig are Russian trolls. The others who join with you are just trolls looking for a place to troll. Sad...but, your collective dishonesty and stupidity is being revealed in real time. Yea...for the good folk, the browncoats who post here.

Oh yeah, tick tock tick tock, Trump and you trolls are playing checkers, Mueller and the rest of us here are playing chess.




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It's unknown what exact information the hackers (in the Netherlands) acquire about the Russians

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"spinning and denying all the truths unveiled about Trump, his cronies, and the Russians by the media since before the election"

Actually - what I've been saying is that there's NO EVIDENCE for the claims made.

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Yes you do, but the mainstream media along with the highest representatives of the law in this country say there is. Sorry, you lose.


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Originally posted by THGRRI:

Oh yeah, tick tock tick tock, Trump and you trolls are playing checkers, Mueller and the rest of us here are playing chess.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
You just don't get it jack. I'm already getting what I want. Trump is tied up in knots. He and his cronies are the worst thing that has happened to this country, and Mueller is draining that swamp thank god. That and I now know Russia is not going to get cleanly away. They are not going to be allowed to reek havoc in this country without paying a heavy price. I want them kicked in the head.

You've asked what I've done. All you see is what I post here regarding our own personal Russian, and just plain trolls, i.e. you. I post to expose their bullshit. What else I do is my business. I will say that voting for the right people is another way I help.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rick-gates-plead-guilty_us_5a8a13
3ee4b004fc31937627

"Gates, who served as Trump’s deputy campaign manager, was indicted in October along with Manafort on charges ranging from money laundering to violations of foreign lobbying laws."

Collusion? Russia? Trump?

Hello? Hello? Anybody alive between those ears?

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Hello? Anybody there? No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over. Especially from the thing they are being investigated for. This includes Trump. If he didn't conspire with the Russians then he will be exonerated of that accusation.

His staff meet with the Russians many times though. Even in Trump Towers. They brought them in the back door, why? They all denied meetings with Russians took place, any meetings. As time went by it was proven over and over again they did. Doesn't look good.

tick tock




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Originally posted by THGRRI:
This is not a tit for tat Jack. We're talking about Trump. I am not going to get into a discussion about GWB, Obama or Clinton with someone who does it as a tit for tat, an excuse or deflection away from Trump.

Or with someone who deals in emotions and not facts. With someone who does very little to no research and opines based on negativity.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over."

Then you really ARE un-American! The Constitution itself declares EVERYONE innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

* I'm * holding people to an AMERICAN standard of justice.

What standard are YOU using?

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Reporting what's in the news, what we know so far, is not the same as saying let's put Trump in jail without a trial. I'll excuse your ignorance on this, you being from Russia.

Believing him guilty after all that's been reported is only forming an opinion. Again, not the same thing as saying forget the investigation lets put him in jail now. Again you being Russian, I know you don't really understand how the rule of law works in America.

I see you're experiencing a high of 25 degrees with a fifty percent chance of snow in St. Petersburg Russia. It's cold and snowy over here in my part of America too.


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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Reporting what's in the news, what we know so far, is not the same as saying let's put Trump in jail without a trial.
"No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over."

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

Reporting what's in the news, what we know so far, is not the same as saying let's put Trump in jail without a trial.

"No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over."

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Yep, all true and I stick by those statements.


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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

Reporting what's in the news, what we know so far, is not the same as saying let's put Trump in jail without a trial.

"No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over."

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Yep, all true and I stick by those statements.


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