Taking a Gander at the Goose by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Taking a Gander at the Goose

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Saturday, September 13, 2008 08:28
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VIEWED: 4619
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Friday, September 12, 2008 3:49 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

You have yet to show that McCain was speaking directly about Hillary. That’s you’re problem. Palin’s Lipstick comment relates Obama’s lipstick comment to her, but you haven’t show that there is any relationship between what McCain said and Hillary. You simply assume that if McCain used the same hackneyed phrase as Obama that it must be meant the same way, but that is not the case. So if you want to show how the McCain comment is related to Hillary, then I’m listening, if not, you can’t show a relation.

Yes, and you have yet to relate Obama's comment directly to Palin. Other than the fact that both comments contain the word "lipstick", there is no similarity or relation between them. And you yourself have said that she doesn't own the word - so now you're saying that she DOES own it?

Were you for it before you were against it, or are you just lazily listening to the people who tell you exactly what you want to hear again?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, September 12, 2008 4:21 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
It's ok when Republicans do it, there's two different set of rules, don't you get it?

Are you saying Hillery is a Pig?

H

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Friday, September 12, 2008 4:26 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Were you for it before you were against it, or are you just lazily listening to the people who tell you exactly what you want to hear again?

I thought Obama's remark was innocent. I thought it was innocent when Republicans used it.

Many women, however, have been offended by what Obama said. Like it or not that is the issue, not what you or I think, not what Obama meant, not that Republicans used the same term in 2007, and not that Palin was not offended either...the issue is that women heard what she said at convention, then heard what Obama said, and interpreted it as a derrogatory statement.

He should apologize, not because he did something wrong, but because the women he needs to get himself elected expect him to apologize. Its a political issue.

H

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Friday, September 12, 2008 6:16 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

Excuse me Hero,

that totally glosses over the fact that the reason people are seeing an offense is because your GOP friends are lying about Obamas intentions with the use of the phrase in the first place.

Given that you are stand-up enough to say that yes, his comments were innocent, could you then make the next logical step and say that ads attributing Obama's words to Palin, endorsed by Mccain are unethical lies and that the Mccain campaign is engaging in smear? And that the logical conclusion to be drawn is that Mccain is not the stand-up, no nonsense, straight-talker, that he has been claiming to be all this time?

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Friday, September 12, 2008 6:27 AM

KWICKO

Thank you, Anthony!

So let me ask this, Hero:

If *I* get offended because McCain's campaign keeps talking about "change", when Obama's campaign has been all about change, does that make McCain's derogatory statements about "change" and Obama racist? Should McCain apologize to me if I'm offended, or should I get the fuck over it?

Odd that all those Republicans who kept referring to Palin as "hot" and "a babe" are SOOOOOO offended by a remark about lipstick that had nothing whatsoever to do with her.

Maybe Republicans are even more stupid than I've always suspected they were...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, September 12, 2008 9:18 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

Just to update,

Mccain, our maverick truth telling bastion of honesty integrity, straight talk,

has said that neither of those ads he endorsed are lies, so he said on The View

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Friday, September 12, 2008 10:08 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
that totally glosses over the fact that the reason people are seeing an offense is because your GOP friends are lying about Obamas intentions with the use of the phrase in the first place.

Of course they are spinning the story. But the women I talked to indicated that the comment...the raw sound bite...was offensive. Obama's explanation was offensive. The GOP's take was a neglidgable factor to them except that it made the soundbite available to be heard (much like Obama's pastor...the GOP spin made the comment public, the outrage was entirely content based).

Folks know enough to disregard most of the spin.

And I cannot stress enough...they don't feel he was calling her a pig...they feel it was a weight/appearance insult and when they hear explanations they think...sure, it wasn't intended, but it was a slip about how he feels.

H

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Friday, September 12, 2008 10:43 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
It's ok when Republicans do it, there's two different set of rules, don't you get it?

Are you saying Hillery is a Pig?

H

I would say yes...but that gives pigs a bad name...

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Friday, September 12, 2008 10:46 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

What? They are not spinning, they are lying...you know it, you even said you didn't think they believed that's what he meant by the comment. If they don't believe that's what he meant then when they release an ad that says it is, that isn't spin Hero, it's lying.

Do you need a link to the internet ad endorsed by Mccain that I'm referring to?

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Friday, September 12, 2008 11:09 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
What? They are not spinning, they are lying...

How come Democrats lie, but Republicans spin? I thought everyone that tells untruths is lying.....

Guess that's just me.

JustsayNOtotruthisall

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Friday, September 12, 2008 11:53 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
What? They are not spinning, they are lying...
How come Democrats lie, but Republicans spin? I thought everyone that tells untruths is lying.....

Guess that's just me.

So if I was a Republican I could get away with posting this
http://video.236.com/services/link/bcpid1612766543/bctid1786874710
but since I'm registered as an Independent I shouldn't....??

and I have to say that I don't think ANYONE thinks that Sarah Palin is fat! Certainly not John McCain:

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Friday, September 12, 2008 12:51 PM

KWICKO

Quote:

and I have to say that I don't think ANYONE thinks that Sarah Palin is fat! Certainly not John McCain:

I have to say, McCain looks happier than a pig in shit in that video...

(Couldn't resist)

Mike

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Friday, September 12, 2008 12:54 PM

CHRISISALL

From certain peeps, Em, you'll get this:

But from me?

LOLisall

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Friday, September 12, 2008 12:57 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
From certain peeps, Em, you'll get this:

But from me?

LOLisall

Bush/Cheney have been screwing us all over for 7 1/2 years...
I'd be grateful to just be getting the finger!

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Friday, September 12, 2008 1:08 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yes, and you have yet to relate Obama's comment directly to Palin. Other than the fact that both comments contain the word "lipstick", there is no similarity or relation between them.

That’s enough of a relation. And whether or not you believe that the speech writer intended the relation, it exists.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Friday, September 12, 2008 1:21 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
they feel it was a weight/appearance insult and when they hear explanations they think...sure, it wasn't intended, but it was a slip about how he feels.

I am sorry but that is just stupid. Any sensible woman that actually thinks that needs to step away from the fashion magazine. I would appreciate hearing from these woman you are "talking" to, because frankly it sounds like a lot of baloney. I spend all day around woman of all ages, weights, races, sexual orientation and political affiliation and NOT ONE OF THEM has said they thought he was calling her fat.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, September 12, 2008 1:22 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:

Just to update,

Mccain, our maverick truth telling bastion of honesty integrity, straight talk,

has said that neither of those ads he endorsed are lies, so he said on The View

Yeah and Joy Behar handed him his own ass. On national tv!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, September 12, 2008 1:26 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s enough of a relation. And whether or not you believe that the speech writer intended the relation, it exists.

So you'll no doubt agree that we should all be at least as outraged by Lynn Westmoreland's calling Obama "uppity", right?

From The Hill:

Quote:
Georgia Republican Rep. Lynn Westmoreland used the racially-tinged term "uppity" to describe Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama Thursday.

Westmoreland was discussing vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's speech with reporters outside the House chamber and was asked to compare her with Michelle Obama.

"Just from what little I’ve seen of her and Mr. Obama, Sen. Obama, they're a member of an elitist-class individual that thinks that they're uppity," Westmoreland said.

Asked to clarify that he used the word “uppity,” Westmoreland said, “Uppity, yeah.”

Now usually when the word "uppity" is used in relation to a black person, the N-word follows immediately after. It's enough of a relation, and whether you believe that Westmoreland intended the relation, it's there. Are you outraged and calling for an apology from Westmoreland?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:09 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Uppity?

Oh dear.

I see the competition for who can pretend to be the most offended continues.

I'll chime in and cry offense that you are claiming 'Uppity' as the purview of African Americans. I have been insulting Uppity people of all races and genders for my entire life, and I will not have the term absconded by a single minority.

I'm too Uppity to allow it.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, September 13, 2008 6:34 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I tend to favor the Harry Callahan viewpoint.

Gonzales: There is one question, Inspector Callahan: Why do they call you "Dirty Harry"?
De Georgio: Ah that's one thing about our Harry, doesn't play any favorites! Harry hates everybody: Limeys, Micks, Hebes, Fat Dagos, Niggers, Honkies, Chinks, you name it.
Gonzales: How does he feel about Mexicans?
De Georgio: Ask him.
Harry Callahan: Especially Spics.

Seriously though, I think they're all being ridiculous too - if I wanna offend someone, I make damn sure there's no mistake or misunderstanding about it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:10 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
I see the competition for who can pretend to be the most offended continues.

Anthony: I think you misunderstand me. I'm not offended; what I want to know from those who ARE offended - or at least claim to be - is this: Where was your righteous indignation when a white, Southern Congressman called a black man "uppity"? You can't claim there's no connection between calling someone uppity and implying that he's an "uppity nigger", unless you also concede that there's no connection between Palin and the word "lipstick".

In the battle of who can be most offended and play the victim card the most often, McCain & Palin clearly seem to be winning. Are they honestly offended? Of course not - but it DOES give them something to whinge about while studiously avoiding anything resembling actual ISSUES. You know, those pesky little unimportant details like the economy, the war, health care, and such. Things that don't really matter to most people, who are much more concerned with truly monumental matters of state, such as "does this lipstick make me look piggish?"

Also, where was all the righteous indignation of these same alleged women who were "outraged" by Obama's comments, who said it made them think of weight issues, when Palin seemingly called all moms vicious dogs?

That's all I'm wondering. And I *do* enjoy needling those who are so easily offended. Especially when they're the ones who claim to hate the whole "politically correct" atmosphere so much.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Saturday, September 13, 2008 8:28 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Anthony: I think you misunderstand me. I'm not offended; what I want to know from those who ARE offended - or at least claim to be - is this: Where was your righteous indignation when a white, Southern Congressman called a black man "uppity"? You can't claim there's no connection between calling someone uppity and implying that he's an "uppity nigger", unless you also concede that there's no connection between Palin and the word "lipstick"."

Hello,

Having never heard anyone called an 'Uppity Nigger' I really don't see any connection between Uppity and Nigger, or any connotation to the word 'Uppity' beyond a smug sense of self-superiority.

However, I do agree with you that the 'I'm offended' game is rediculous. It is doubly rediculous to become offended when your own language is reflected back to you on delay. It is triply rediculous when you consider that the people claiming offense are possibly about to step up to one of the highest offices in the nation. I think there are world leaders who will say worse things about America and its President than 'lipstick on a pig' or even 'Uppity.' I don't need my leaders to get on television and complain about how offended they are.

I'll decide if I don't like language used. It may or may not affect my vote. But seeing my potential leaders of any stripe bemoan perceived insults makes them seem a lot less presidential in my eyes. Buck up, Ladies and Gents, you're about to sit in the big chair.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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