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Originally posted by deadlockvictim:

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Originally posted by swish:

Yeah, I think things slowly trend toward sanity......

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good post Swish...

It's called Progress.... something that has been lacking for eight years...

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
By choice if I could clone a president right now it would probably be Eisenhower.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

By choice if I could clone a president right now it would probably be Eisenhower.

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Originally posted by startroop:
I have followed this discussion with some mirth and some angst and finally felt impelled to write, something that goes against my lurkers code ;-)

I am the guy both political parties hate. I am a moderate. I haven't voted a straight party ticket in my life. It is my opinion that both parties have some of it right and some of it wrong.

I find it funny in a dark way that smart people can pick apart the opposition and rightly castigate the politicoes of one stripe and then completely ignore and/or explain away the same things when their side does it. I can't be the only person who sees it but sometimes, like when I read threads like this I begin to think so.

I wish Barak Obama well. He has been dumped in a pile of feces and there is no way out without making a mess. His campaign was intentionally vague and allowed everyone rightly sick of the current situation to paint their hopes on him. There is now no way he can deliver. I think that he will probably a one term president.

I think the Republicans have some good points. IMHO they are as follows:

1. As a General Rule, less government is better.
2. It is better for me and you to spend our money the way we see fit vs. giving it to the government and having them spend it.
3. Personal firearms don't garantee freedom but they do make politicians more wary of fiat declarations.
4. A strong, seldom used, military is the best defense against a complex and unruley world.
5. We shouldn't build up a debt for our children to pay (even though our folks did it).

They have gone awry in the following areas in my humble opinion:

1. You can't Legislate morality. Attempts to do this lead towards inquisition.
2. Rumsfeld (I wonder how the man sleeps at night) who said we can sorta have a war and still have a good economy.
3. Attacking Iraq. (Afgainistan is another story).
4. Money can't fix everything.


IMHO, the Democrats have it right in the following ways:

1. We need to take better care of the planet as there are too many of us.
2. While we are all born with different talents, we should all have the opportunity to use them.
3. The best investment we have ever made in this country is public education. Dispite all the grief and redundancy and ineffiency, we went from a frontier economy to world power in 150 years.

I seriously wonder about the following:

1. There is a perception that there is an easy way out of the poverty cycle. There isn't, I learned this teaching low income students. The ones that make it out are smart, motivated, and work like dogs. No amount of money can give that to anyone.
2. Business is bad for America.
3. Everyone will leave us alone if we disarm and stay home. Unfortunately, since we are wealthy, others are think that they have a right to what we have earned.
4. McNamara (see Rumsfeld), If you are too young, look him up. Think Rumsfeld with red hair and a Democrat in the 60's.
5. Money can't fix everything.

To set the record straight, I am laughing at no one's pain. In this year's election, we needed someone with gumption, brains, and charisma. What we got from both parties was second rate politicians. Sometimes, from the back bench we get greatness, but I don't see it here. Where have the people like Truman, Reagan, and Theodore Rooosevelt gone? We need them now.

There, I vented my spleen. I suspect I have pissed some of you off. My apologies, but if I made you think a bit, then maybe there is some value here.

My shields are up and I stand ready ;-)

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Originally posted by startroop:
Where have the people like Truman, Reagan, and Theodore Rooosevelt gone? We need them now.

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Originally posted by startroop:


Having said that it clearly wasn't his idea. He thought on a much grander scale. This was obviously someone (probably several someones) in middle level government who couldn't get their agenda funded and so went through the back door.

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1. Reagan was a simple thinker. What precisely does that mean?

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2. You also said that he obviously believed in "Star Wars" and that it wasn't designed to over extend the Soviet Union. How do you know that?

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Originally posted by Riverlove:
Don't forget the utter financial mess that Jimmy Carter left for him too.....

14% interest rates
12% un-employment

Reagan's tax cuts to business helped create millions of new jobs, and by the end of his first term interest & un-emploment rates were back in the single digits.

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Carter left the country's economy actually worse than Bush is leaving it by a long shot.

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Reagan's Admininstration also pushed Gorbachev into Peristroika and openness, which ultimately led to the end of the Soviet Union.

Not too shabby a legacy for a guy who made movies with monkeys.

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Originally posted by startroop:
Son, I was on that mission. I have friends now long dead whose memory I will not profane by dragging out the details of that night in this forum. I will say this one thing. The failure of that mission was NOT a set up to win political points.

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Originally posted by startroop:

If you are as old as you suggest, perhaps it's time you grew up a bit and thought about the consequences of your actions.

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The CIA never has had anything to do with aircraft maintenance or preparation of aircraft for the regular military. They don't have the experience or frankly the trust of the active military to be trusted to do as much as bring a sack lunch.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Oh yes, and Chris ?

Not all black baggers are by default, bad folk.

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Originally posted by startroop:
As to getting wound up, it's a little late, I was not really able to function well yesterday at all.

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To Chris, yes, you poked at an old wound and yes it burst in your face. I should have had more control. Unfortunately, when you pop off with something half baked like that, it casts doubt on everything else you said, valid or not.

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