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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Toss out the high and low figures,

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
You can't seriously accept such #'s when they so wildly variate from each other, can you?

102,000 vs 1 Million + ?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
...Did you miss that was the Iraqi CIVILIAN bodycount from WIKIPEDIA? Apparently from 2003 to 2010 it IS approximately in the 100,000 range.

But seriously, nevermind. Some arguments aren't worth having.

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No one's questioning whether or not there's been a high body count. Of course there was, it was the focal point of a considerable land war. But only a fraction of those deaths are the result of the US's collateral damage, and NONE of them were targeted ( murdered ) by our military. Terrorist bombers targeting civilians.The terrorists, THAT is who murdered, not the US military.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
1 million is far and away out of sync with the other 'reputable' sources.

Not hard to figure out which one of these is not like the other...

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sorry, but such 'body count' polls are dubious, at best. These are the same folks who blamed all the deaths and illness of children on the 10 years of sanctions which had lead up to the war.

Not Saddam's fault.

Not the UN's fault, who was dealing under the table with Saddam, in the most corrupt multi-national scam the world's eve seen....no. The 'blame' for all that misery rested squarely on the U.S.

Horse hockey.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
The plural of 100's of thousands is NOT 1.25 . A unit of 100,000 x 2 or 3, minimum , would meet the requirement for Kwickie's remarks to hold true. Sorry, but baseless hyperbole and grand exaggeration on this matter won't cut it.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't accept the estimates of deaths attributed directly to US action,

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That is fine. But must you insult those who DO accept these estimates published by reputable sources? Is it right to say those published estimates are "baseless hyperbole" and "grand exaggeration"?

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A unit of 100,000 x 2 or 3, minimum , would meet the requirement for Kwickie's remarks to hold true.

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Let's look at those numbers in those 6 studies.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Casualties_of_the_iraq_
war

151,000
601,027
1,033,000
110,600
102,661 (rough average of 98,170 to 107,152)
150,726

Avg: 339,735. Even this should meet your criterion of 100,000 X 2 OR 3.

Again, you may not agree with these estimates. Certainly, these numbers are subject to debate.

But citing estimates from published, reputable sources is not "patently absurd" or "baseless hyperbole." You are trying to accuse Kwicko of inventing these numbers, even though we are showing you hard evidence that he is citing these numbers from reputable sources, and NOT pulling exaggerations out of his ass.

I think you owe him an apology and acknowledge that SOME sources have found the US to be responsible for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths. Then we can move on to debating if these sources are correct or not in their findings.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
...Did you miss that was the Iraqi CIVILIAN bodycount from WIKIPEDIA? Apparently from 2003 to 2010 it IS approximately in the 100,000 range.

But seriously, nevermind. Some arguments aren't worth having.

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No one's questioning whether or not there's been a high body count. Of course there was, it was the focal point of a considerable land war. But only a fraction of those deaths are the result of the US's collateral damage, and NONE of them were targeted ( murdered ) by our military. Terrorist bombers targeting civilians.The terrorists, THAT is who murdered, not the US military.

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Actually, YOU were questioning the high body count. In fact, you said I was a "fucking liar" for mentioning it.

And several U.S. soldiers have been convicted of murder. The U.S. military absolutely murders. It's what they're trained for. And when they specifically TARGET a wedding party, you really can't say they aren't targeting and murdering people.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I questioned your asinine claim that the US 'murdered' those people, and so many.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Show me where I called someone a " retard ", please.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I questioned your asinine claim that the US 'murdered' those people, and so many.

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You did more than question it. You said in so many words, that his numbers were fictional, just like McKinney's "5000." Then you called him an idiot and a liar. That goes beyond "questioning." That is denial and categorical dismissal of any facts that are not to your liking.

Imagine that scenario with the 5 dead people in the same family. Now imagine that was your brother's family. And then someone asked if the US murdered your family. Wouldn't you say, "Yes, the US murdered 5 members of my family"?

It's a matter of perspective.

And some Americans might agree with you. If it were my money that bought that particular bomb, I know I would feel guilty. And resentful that someone robbed that money from me to do this horribly destructive act.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Abso-fucking-lutely.

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Makes perfect sense.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Abso-fucking-lutely.

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So you're proud of it, but you deny it happened.

Makes perfect sense.

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