Duke Lacrosse accuser, Cyrstal Mangum... by AURaptor

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Duke Lacrosse accuser, Cyrstal Mangum...

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, December 13, 2013 19:36
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VIEWED: 3482
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Monday, December 9, 2013 7:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Geraldo Rivera has been investigating the case...

Oh yeah, THERE's a credible source, *laughing*, NOT!

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
And, do you really think Frem has never had sex with a woman who has had a single drink? By your definition that makes him susceptible for rape charges.

Yes, she does, asshole.
One MIGHT remember, I am kinda fuckin PICKY about that sorta thing, given just how badly damaged most of the people I deal with are - perhaps you should question your own assumptions once in a while, ehe ?

As for not trusting me, well shit, that's the very first goddamn thing I teach them, just so you know - I deliberately provoke a situation where (technically) beating the paste out of me is the correct "response" and tend to get kind of upset if they are unable/unwilling to do so cause that means when it is 'for real' they'd not step up to the plate properly.

From:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/ineffective_violence.htm

Quote:
When we mention this fact many advocates immediately go on the warpath and come up with all kinds of statements about how how we're blaming the victim and how a woman has the right to defend herself or that the violence was actually instigated by the man. The problem is they are so busy trying to blame the male that they miss our point. We don't object to the fact that the woman threw the first strike ...

What we object to is that she didn't break his jaw!

Our attitude isn't just that "No Means No." It means a trip to the hospital if you're too stupid or drunk to know what 'No' means.

Mind you, unlike the real thing I wouldn't follow through, but I *am* willing to take a kicking if that is the price of them learning this lesson - CHEAP AT THE PRICE.

And yes, I AM kinda picky about informed consent, you could ask the last one to try some funny bizness about that, hell, one of my buddies suggested having them sign a friggin contract, but that's a real mood killer - the recording device under the bed however, is a different story.

-Frem

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Monday, December 9, 2013 7:22 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Seems we're in the minority about this. I was watching "The Five" today and Eric Bolling, who I like a lot, said "the matter is over and let's play football!" They were discussing how the FSU quarterback walked away from an ESPN reporter on Saturday when she asked him if he was relieved that there would be no charges.

So FSU has Jameis Winston for the big game. Jameis Winston will likely win the Heisman Trophy. Eric Bolling is excited and ready for the big game. Rick Scott and Pam Bondi are looking forward to another national championship for their hick town. State Attorney Willie Meggs is restocking his lawn shed/man cave with gallons of pickled pig's feet and lizard jerky. The FSU cheerleaders are going over new routines and checking their birth control pill supply. Team mascot Chief Osceola is sharpening his tomahawk and mixing his war paint. All hail mighty football! Remember the Titans!

I like college football (better than professional), but there are aspects of it that are terrible.

This debacle is sad. Probably even a little disgusting. :(

It seems the one thing we all agree on is that the girl here really did have a case, and it was thrown out... For football. Awful.

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Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:57 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
That you twist the worst meaning from someone's words and do it so casually for your entertainment is equally offensive to me.

My entertainment? So you think having my ideas about the decency of most of the people on the board turned upside down is "entertaining" to me. Having to wonder about everyone I meet in real life now is ENTERTAINING because the ratio on this board is disturbing and I always thought it represented reality.

I didn't twist anything. Just like with Jack. You can either come to terms with this and what you've said, or continue to defend the indefensible. But your straddling the line on this issue is offensive to ME. You can't say sometimes taking advantage is okay and sometimes it isn't, and draw the line ONLY when there are bruises or when someone is unconscious. You don't get to espouse a philosophy of tricking people into choosing something when their judgement is compromised, and then call yourself a defender of anyone.

You don't think I was offended when people called me a rape enabler when I said - GASP - maybe we should give rape victims the means to defend themselves, or when my views on provoking Muslims into riots was compared to blaming rape victims? You don't think I thought it was contrary to what I am and everything I represented? Get OVER yourself. You are WRONG here, and if you need to be smacked upside the head with it, so be it.

I say this right now, and offend you, to shock you out of this mental place you've been where you think that getting someone to have some drinks and then convincing them to have sex is some kind of inviolable RIGHT because it's the drinking culture/party scene and EVERYONE does it so it's okay. No. It's not okay. It's a scummy thing to do. And if I get you to think about it differently, if I get you to decide NOT to do this in the future if a situation like that comes up, then I have done a service for you, for the world, and everyone who drinks.

And maybe, in the process, maybe things around here will start to sit right with me again, and I won't have to look at you all sideways and wonder.

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Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:37 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
I espoused a philosophy of tricking people??!!?? You're out of your fucking mind. Show me that one.

In this thread alone?

Quote:
And, do you really think Frem has never had sex with a woman who has had a single drink? By your definition that makes him susceptible for rape charges.

This quite clearly suggests that you think having sex with someone who has been drinking is acceptable and should not be considered rape.

Yet a person who has been drinking has impaired judgment and reduced inhibitions. Getting them to drink and then taking advantage of reduced inhibitions is the same thing as tricking them. If they would not have made the same decision while sober then it's dishonest.

Do you agree with this:

"A person who has lowered inhibitions due to alcohol can still consent to sex."

And then in the other thread there's numerous times where you said you don't want to have to think about the consequences or ramifications, you just want to have fun. That is putting your own self-gratification ahead of your partner or their wishes. It's the wrong way to think about it. It's not cool.

Quote:
So, as to be expected, it is all about you, "maybe things around here will start to sit right with me again." You do have that attitude, that this is somehow your forum and you have final say.

It is a forum I go to, and it IS my say if I feel safe around the people on it.

We have a very serious trust issue right now.

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Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:02 PM

BYTEMITE

I just saw Storymark say that he wished AuRaptor would have a car wreck.

And after seeing that, I realized something is wrong beyond this microcosm argument about what constitutes rape or not, and this story about privilege in football and victimization.

In blind self-righteousness, I fell victim to the slow degradation of civility around the board, contributing to it, treating people like garbage, expecting to be treated the same in response, but shrugging that off because of my certainty that I am right and other people are wrong.

No matter what I think, there is no reason to treat other people like that. At some point, everyone became faceless text instead of people.

This argument and the previous one is and were rhetorical and I took it far too seriously. I became a monster.

I'm sorry G. I won't ask your forgiveness.

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Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I just saw Storymark say that he wished AuRaptor would have a car wreck.

Wait, what ?? Where'd you see that remark ? I'm not seeing it in this thread, and haven't noticed it anywhere else.

Wow.

Talk about psycho internet behavior! Bravo, Storybook.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:03 PM

BYTEMITE

Yeah, it made me think about my behaviour and my behaviour has been bad. :(

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Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Yeah, it made me think about my behaviour and my behaviour has been bad. :(

Some here do bring out the worst in ourselves, huh?

That's why I try to strive for clarity over agreement. I know we're not going to agree on stuff, but at least we can be honest and try to listen to what others are actually saying.

At least, that's what I keep hoping.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:04 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I do want to reply to this, but I have read your apology Byte. So I hope you don't feel this is attacking, but rather a continuation of an important discussion that looked like it got out of hand.

I have nothing to say about the case in the title, not caring enough about an event in the US that appears to be a trial played out in the media.

I just really wanted to discuss the issue of consent. I think the reason you have received so many hostile responses Byte is that, if I understand your argument correctly, you have basically stated that if you have sex with someone who has consumed alcohol, you are basically committing rape as alcohol impairs the capacity to consent. Please correct me if I have this wrong, I probably haven't read every detail of this thread, but this is my understanding.

So if that is the case, then I am guilty of both multiple counts of rape and being raped, which I have to say doesn't really square with my view of my own sex life. Now I may be deluding myself here, but I don't see it as a series of violations just because alcohol has been involved.

I find that these debates are difficult ones, and I find myself hopping along various lines of thought and feeling disquiet about arguments from boths sides.

Take a common example. At a party girl gets drunk and boy or boys have sex with her.

Everyone seems polarised. One side says, its the girls fault for getting drunk and allowing herself in that position. The other says its the boys fault for taking advantage of a girl who was not in a position to consent. You have to pick a side here, don't you. Don't you?

Apart from the fact that there are many variables that may sway this scenario in a number of directions, which I wont go into, the common thread of ideas appears to be who do you blame.

The past is littered with so much victim blaming. Girls were always responsible for their assault, unless they were acting demurely. But if there behaviour was in any ways provactive, ie how they dressed, acted, drank, then they were asking for it.

The underlying view: Men are unable to control their sexual appetites, therefore women are entirely responsible for ensuring their own safety by protecting themselves through their dress and behaviour. If they are violated, then they need to prove that they have not contributed to that violation.

That's still a commonly held view. Very common.

The other side says that men are entirely responsible for ensuring that full consent is given by a female before sex. They cannot make assumptions about any behaviour by the female that may indicate that sex is desired by them.

Now I gotta be honest and say that while I veer towards the above view, I still feel some discomfort about it. It seems to imply that women need take no responsibility for their behaviours. Does that mean we have to have some clear verbal, or god forbid written transaction before having sex. Does that mean that women don't initiate sex, or that men are never ambigious themselves. Again, this feels full of assumptions about mens and womens sexuality that I don't feel is backed up by any reality of my own.

So here are a couple of thoughts.

Many people like to consume alcohol (and drugs) prior to sex as they feel it enhances the experience. Whether your judgement is impaired to such an extent that you cannot give consent or be in control of actions, I think depends upon the person and the amount consummed. A young person may need very little alcohol to be virtually unconscious, whereas someone like myself is still able to make many judgements quite easily. From 'now is not a good time to have this conversation', to 'I can't drive now'.

Secondly, initiating sex is ALL about behaviour. That's the mating dance. You can't deny it, it's real and sometimes its 'dance towards, dance away' behaviour if you get my meaning. Many people would find the straightforwardness of 'do you want to have sex' a huge turn off, myself included. In fact I'd go as far as to say its a libido killer for me. so what we need to learn is how to read each others body language.

Which leads me to the problems we encounter in a society where rules around sexual behaviour are being so rewritten that few of us understand them any more. Does that body language mean: 'I like you, lets go out', or 'I want to jump your bones now' - coz it may be the same body language, but people can have vastly different moral frameworks around sexual behaviour.

Anothr point is that people can feel regret around sexual activity, but that doesn't mean it is a criminal matter. I'm sure many men and women have woken up the next day thinking that it had all been a huge mistake, but take responsibility for that mistake, learn from it and move on, or do it again next time....

So, I'd say that its complicated.

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Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:05 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Getting back to Crystal Mangum .... two of her friends, Crystal Meth and Crystal Blue Persuasion were recently arrested for solicitation. Their pimps, Crimson and Clover were also charged.

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Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

This could get interesting.

Quote:
Family of Jameis Winston’s accuser to hold press conference Friday, one day before Heisman crowning

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/family-jameis-winston-
accuser-hold-press-conference-friday-211245528--ncaaf.html

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, December 13, 2013 6:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Something doesn't seem right here...

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/24213814/2013/12/13/winston-accuser
s-attorney-blasts-police-investigation

IMO, there's more than a hint of suspicion that the victim was drugged, and lead out of the bar, rather than left willingly.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, December 13, 2013 7:36 PM

BYTEMITE

I wouldn't be surprised.

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