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Originally posted by THG:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What is the real cause? What are the real targets?

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The Trump campaign cries censorship after Twitter removes a video about George Floyd on copyright grounds

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-trump-campaign-cries-censo
rship-after-twitter-removes-a-video-about-george-floyd-on-copyright-grounds/ar-BB154LTq?ocid=msedgntp

tick tock comrade. Trumps getting it from all sides now. Everyone has had enough.

T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Originally posted by second:
Confederate monuments collapse: Statues in Virginia, Alabama and Tennessee are torn down and vandalized with graffiti amid George Floyd protests

• In Alexandria, Virginia the 131-year-old bronze statue of Confederate soldier 'Appomattox' was taken down on Tuesday for fear it would get damaged in riots

• In Birmingham, Alabama the 115-year-old Confederate Soldiers and Sailors monument was removed from its pedestal on Monday night

• In Birmingham, Alabama a crowd of protesters tore down a statue of Confederate Navy captain Charles Linn last week

• In Montgomery, Alabama a statue of General Robert E Lee, the Commander of the Confederate Army in the Civil War, was toppled on Monday

• Confederate monuments in Virginia and South Carolina have also been defaced with graffiti and spray paint

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8382553/Confederate-monuments-collaps
e-Statues-South-torn-amid-George-Floyd-protests.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I see this as "move and countermove".

They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I see this as "move and countermove".

They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election ...

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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]Originally posted by JAGOFF:



Agreed.



Hey Kiki. I guess Sigs and I are both looking at the same "extremist" websites.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Why aren't people protesting the shooting of a 77-year-old black man by looters? Is that not also an outrage?



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Quote:

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SIGNY: I see this as "move and countermove".

They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.


KIKI: I agree that there's been a global conspiracy of tptb to get Trump. And the more they tried, the more obvious it became. And I'm sure there still is that group of people with their same agenda.

But I'm not sure you've seen the video, which was gruesome enough to piss ANYBODY off with the least bit of empathy. People are RIGHTFULLY, RIGHTEOUSLY pissed off. There's no need to invoke some kind of fakery about that.

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As for your idea that this is ALL orchestrated - there's no 'what' without a 'how'. How does this happen? How does a shadow group cause protests and riots to spring up in thousands if not tens of thousands of cities and towns across the US?

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So no, it's not ALL orchestrated.

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And finally, yanno - sometimes shit happens. And sometimes presidents really step into the shit with their own responses. Soros didn't invent Trump's god-awful response to either SARS-COV-2 or the protests. Those events really did expose his serious shortcomings.

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Do I think Biden is better? Jeeze louise, the guy's the water boy for the global evil and corrupt. But I don't have to be for one to be against the other. And you can take that in either direction.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Originally posted by 1KIKI: I agree that there's been a global conspiracy of tptb to get Trump. And the more they tried, the more obvious it became. And I'm sure there still is that group of people with their same agenda.

But I'm not sure you've seen the video, which was gruesome enough to piss ANYBODY off with the least bit of empathy. People are RIGHTFULLY, RIGHTEOUSLY pissed off. There's no need to invoke some kind of fakery about that.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM: Yes, but what about the other roughly 999 people killed by cops every year? This isn't the first outrageous killing by cops. And while those other killings sparked protests and even riots in their cities (Ferguson, the whole "Hand up don't shoot" was fake) they didn't spread across the world.

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1KIKI: As for your idea that this is ALL orchestrated - there's no 'what' without a 'how'. How does this happen? How does a shadow group cause protests and riots to spring up in thousands if not tens of thousands of cities and towns across the US?

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SIGNYM: "Never let a good crisis go to waste" Antifa, for one. They are loosely organized but have groups in every major and medium-sized city.

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SIGNYM: Social internet groups. The time is ripe: Schools are closed, there is no summer school, universities are doing online only, and a lot of the summer McJobs that would have kept some young people busy are also closed.

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SIGNYM: And of course the M$M. This story would have died an inglorious death if they had not directed their nonstop Covid-19 coverage to this.

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1KIKI: So no, it's not ALL orchestrated.

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SIGNYM: No, but some groups are extremely quick to weaponize whatever event pops up.

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And finally, yanno - sometimes shit happens. And sometimes presidents really step into the shit with their own responses. Soros didn't invent Trump's god-awful response to either SARS-COV-2 or the protests. Those events really did expose his serious shortcomings.

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SIGNYM: I fault Trump for his Covid-19 response. (But as it turns out, there is more to controlling Covid-19 than lockdowns, so where I fault him ... and the CDC, and WHO ... is not having a "plan B" in place.)

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SIGNYM: AFA Trump's response to the protests ... I think the National Guard should have jumped in with both boots to quell the looting and destruction. The same scenario played out over and over ... "It started out peaceful, but ..."

Then violent elements activated and opportunistic looters showed up. I was watching live coverage, and while they were interviewing a few people in Santa Monica ... residents and shopkeepers who were terrorized by the looting and violence... during the whole 10-minute interview they were showing on split screen looters in Long Beach pillaging a Walgreens and several other stores in a small strip mall. These looters were embedded in a PEACEFUL march, they would simply peel off from the crowd to duck into the broken-open stores, sometimes leaving a lookout, or (towards the end of the event) driving up in cars to haul stuff away. The moment the sirens sounded you could see them literally drop their goods, stuff their hand in their pockets and walk way.

The reason why it took LB police so long to react is because they were also busy defending police HQ.

In other cases, people shoot from a crowd of largely peaceful protesters. In such a situation, you can't separate the sheep from the goats, EVERYONE needs to clear the streets.

I compare these protests (which are more like flashmobs) to the Gilets Jaunes, who had good control of the elements in their protests.

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1KIKI: Do I think Biden is better? Jeeze louise, the guy's the water boy for the global evil and corrupt. But I don't have to be for one to be against the other. And you can take that in either direction.

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SIGNYM: When I see who is arranged against Trump and the depths to which they will go, I know which side I'm on.

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SIGNYM: I take it for granted that we can all agree that there should be no more prejudice and discrimination for, or against, anyone.* IMHO that is a SETTLED ISSUE. The same goes for police violence against civilians. Who could possibly be be FOR it? (BTW, there is some speculation that the cop who killed George Floyd was involved in some kind of money laundering operation at the club where he worked for 17 years as security, along with George Floyd who had only worked there for a year, and that maybe Floyd ... who was found with a counterfeit $20 on him, had stumbled onto this operation, and that maybe this was not as undirected and random killing as was thought. There is probably a lot more to this story than we know.)

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SIGNYM: *BTW SIX, it is possible to have discrimination both FOR and AGAINST the same group of people operating at the same time. That goes for white males who still have a more positive immediate response than say black males, at the same time that white hetero males are not a "protected class" under anti-discrimination laws. I just firmly believe that we should all be judged on the same criteria as anyone else.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election ...

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Quote:

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]Originally posted by JAGOFF:



Agreed.



Hey Kiki. I guess Sigs and I are both looking at the same "extremist" websites.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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The difference between you and Signy is that Signy understands Trump isn't god. You, otoh, have tds.

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I have lived in the United States for a total of 24 years and I have witnessed many crises over this long period, but what is taking place today is truly unique and much more serious than any previous crisis I can recall. And to explain my point, I would like to begin by saying what I believe the riots we are seeing taking place in hundreds of US cities are not about. They are not about:

Racism or “White privilege”
Police violence
Social alienation and despair
Poverty
Trump
The liberals pouring fuel on social fires
The infighting of the US elites/deep state

They are not about any of these because they encompass all of these issues, and more.

It is important to always keep in mind the distinction between the concepts of “cause” and “pretext”. And while it is true that all the factors listed above are real (at least to some degree, and without looking at the distinction between cause and effect), none of them are the true cause of what we are witnessing. At most, the above are pretexts, triggers if you want, but the real cause of what is taking place today is the systemic collapse of the US society.

... For a society, any society, to function a number of factors that make up the social contract need to be present. The exact list that make up these factors will depend on each individual country, but they would typically include some kind of social consensus, the acceptance by most people of the legitimacy of the government and its institutions, often a unifying ideology or, at least, common values, the presence of a stable middle-class, the reasonable hope for a functioning “social life”, educational institutions etc. Finally, and cynically, it always helps the ruling elites if they can provide enough circuses (TV) and bread (food) to most citizens.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
KIKI. I'm sure the reaction ... your reaction, other reactions... are genuine. They're just EASILY MANIPULATED. If you put an image up in front of people that's horrific enough, people stop thinking and start reacting. People really were worried about Iraq's WMD. Some people are still convinced that Trump is Putin's agent. All genuine reactions.

If you want to ANALYZE a situation, you need to be stone cold ... cold. No emotion. For instance, did the police not know they were being videoed? Because it was taken very close up ... close enough to get good sound.

I thought this was an interesting take (from the Saker):

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I have lived in the United States for a total of 24 years and I have witnessed many crises over this long period, but what is taking place today is truly unique and much more serious than any previous crisis I can recall. And to explain my point, I would like to begin by saying what I believe the riots we are seeing taking place in hundreds of US cities are not about. They are not about:

Racism or “White privilege”
Police violence
Social alienation and despair
Poverty
Trump
The liberals pouring fuel on social fires
The infighting of the US elites/deep state

They are not about any of these because they encompass all of these issues, and more.

It is important to always keep in mind the distinction between the concepts of “cause” and “pretext”. And while it is true that all the factors listed above are real (at least to some degree, and without looking at the distinction between cause and effect), none of them are the true cause of what we are witnessing. At most, the above are pretexts, triggers if you want, but the real cause of what is taking place today is the systemic collapse of the US society.

... For a society, any society, to function a number of factors that make up the social contract need to be present. The exact list that make up these factors will depend on each individual country, but they would typically include some kind of social consensus, the acceptance by most people of the legitimacy of the government and its institutions, often a unifying ideology or, at least, common values, the presence of a stable middle-class, the reasonable hope for a functioning “social life”, educational institutions etc. Finally, and cynically, it always helps the ruling elites if they can provide enough circuses (TV) and bread (food) to most citizens.

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BTW, our Canadian friend, who used to be a journalist and who has lived in Egypt, Israel. Nicaragua, and Japan and who knows journalists around the world, also knows Antifa in Canada AND Europe. So they are a very real organization and pretty deeply embedded with the Greens, for example, in Germany. But AFA the Boogaloo Bois ... I didn't see any Hawaiian shirts around, did you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
KIKI. I'm sure the reaction ... your reaction, other reactions... are genuine. They're just EASILY MANIPULATED. If you put an image up in front of people that's horrific enough, people stop thinking and start reacting. People really were worried about Iraq's WMD. Some people are still convinced that Trump is Putin's agent. All genuine reactions.

If you want to ANALYZE a situation, you need to be stone cold ... cold. No emotion. For instance, did the police not know they were being videoed? Because it was taken very close up ... close enough to get good sound.

I thought this was an interesting take (from the Saker):

Quote:

---

I have lived in the United States for a total of 24 years and I have witnessed many crises over this long period, but what is taking place today is truly unique and much more serious than any previous crisis I can recall. And to explain my point, I would like to begin by saying what I believe the riots we are seeing taking place in hundreds of US cities are not about. They are not about:

Racism or “White privilege”
Police violence
Social alienation and despair
Poverty
Trump
The liberals pouring fuel on social fires
The infighting of the US elites/deep state

They are not about any of these because they encompass all of these issues, and more.

It is important to always keep in mind the distinction between the concepts of “cause” and “pretext”. And while it is true that all the factors listed above are real (at least to some degree, and without looking at the distinction between cause and effect), none of them are the true cause of what we are witnessing. At most, the above are pretexts, triggers if you want, but the real cause of what is taking place today is the systemic collapse of the US society.

... For a society, any society, to function a number of factors that make up the social contract need to be present. The exact list that make up these factors will depend on each individual country, but they would typically include some kind of social consensus, the acceptance by most people of the legitimacy of the government and its institutions, often a unifying ideology or, at least, common values, the presence of a stable middle-class, the reasonable hope for a functioning “social life”, educational institutions etc. Finally, and cynically, it always helps the ruling elites if they can provide enough circuses (TV) and bread (food) to most citizens.

---

BTW, our Canadian friend, who used to be a journalist and who has lived in Egypt, Israel. Nicaragua, and Japan and who knows journalists around the world, also knows Antifa in Canada AND Europe. So they are a very real organization and pretty deeply embedded with the Greens, for example, in Germany. But AFA the Boogaloo Bois ... I didn't see any Hawaiian shirts around, did you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Reckoning with white supremacy: Five fundamentals for white folks

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As demonstrations in response to the murders of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and countless others gain momentum across the United States, many white people nationwide are being forced to confront the idea that flashpoints like this are not isolated missteps within an otherwise faithful system. Rather, more and more white folks are realizing each day that the very fabric of our society is in fact based on enduring violence against Black people and other marginalized groups.

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In this time, the sharing of trauma-porn and reactionary social-media solidarity—while perhaps the most readily available avenue of action for most—are nowhere near suitable surrogates for a factual, historical understanding of this moment.

Southerners are no strangers to white supremacy and police brutality. From slavery to secession, the KKK to “states rights” strategies, from Jim Crow to mass incarceration—we’ve been here before.

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If you’re a “well-meaning” white person feeling lost in your own self-actualization process, here are five basic ideas you must grasp:
1. White supremacy is not “just” racism.

Racism often refers to acts of overt, intentional prejudice and visions of social order that debase people of color while glorifying whiteness. But white supremacy is a systemic and systematic phenomenon woven throughout our society—rather than just the work of racist individuals who intentionally and maliciously discriminate. Our institutions and social practices themselves prop up white advantage and protect white communities, while making Black and brown people vulnerable to exploitation, domination, and violence.

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Conceiving of white supremacy as a problem of individual bad actors is too limited. It reduces a deep social problem to narrow questions ("Are they racist?" "Is this racist?") and shallow defensiveness ("I’m not being racist, but..."), while ignoring that white supremacy is not just a vestigial remnant of the past. White supremacy’s inequities are actively reproduced across history and through the present, in new forms and with new mechanisms of white power.

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“America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: 'if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?' There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register.

Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.”

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Sure.

I thought you were making the point that this was completely astroturfed,

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and I was just trying to say that it didn't seem that way to me. It seemed accidental and completely genuine. Not saying it's smart of anything like that, just not pre-planned and stage-managed.

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But if that wasn't your point ... then I misunderstood.

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Anyway, sadly, riots and looting - they seem to come with the protest territory.

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It's dumb, and worse than useless, but there seems to be a long history that that's what happens.

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And yeah, pandering to a thoughtless, lazy people. I think it was formally ushered in by Live Aid in 1985 where people would all get together for a really great show and solve Ethiopia's problems forever. "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony ..."

Why is it that nobody on the national level is bringing any of this up?

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About the deep structural problems that put people in a Roman arena of the war of all against all, I mean? Did the people who have the historical background and should know better look at MLK and decide they'd rather save their skins?

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Sure.

I thought you were making the point that this was completely astroturfed,

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Signy: No, not astroturfed manipulated

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kiki: and I was just trying to say that it didn't seem that way to me. It seemed accidental and completely genuine. Not saying it's smart of anything like that, just not pre-planned and stage-managed.

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Signy: You can't pre-plan a cop killing someone brutally, but you CAN stage-manage the reaction. Show the video, over and over. "Explain" the protests over and over, Soft-pedal the violence. Don't even bother to look for organizers,

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kiki: But if that wasn't your point ... then I misunderstood.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yep, you misunderstood.

Have you not seen films of violent protests in Ukraine? Venezuela? THEY were genuine. They were ALSO stage-managed. The grievances were real... at least, real enough to the protesters. These students (the protesters were almost always students) hated their leader - Chavez, Yanukovich. Hated everything about him. He was taking them in the wrong direction. There are ALWAYS disaffected groups in any society, and Soros and the spook agencies (thru AID, NED and other entities) have been feeding them money for years. Remember "Fuck the EU" Nuland? She bragged that they had spent $5billion in Ukraine over 10 years, fostering disaffection. The money-trail was never brought up until AFTER the color revolution. If you had said that the USA was behind the "spontaneous" rebellion, people would have said you were a crazy conspiracy theorist, but I calculated Nuland's brag: It would have been enough to give every Ukrainian $1000.

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kiki: Anyway, sadly, riots and looting - they seem to come with the protest territory.

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Signy: It depends on the protest organizers ... if there are any ... and how disciplined they are. The Civil Rights marchers were peaceful, and so were the Gilets Jaunes. But if the protesters don't care, or don't have the huevos to kick the looters out, then yes, violence and looting will happen.

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kiki: It's dumb, and worse than useless, but there seems to be a long history that that's what happens.

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Signy: Already explained that it's up to the protesters. Are they committed to peaceful protest, or do they lack the motivation or organizational skills to make it happen?

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kiki: And yeah, pandering to a thoughtless, lazy people. I think it was formally ushered in by Live Aid in 1985 where people would all get together for a really great show and solve Ethiopia's problems forever. "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony ..."

Why is it that nobody on the national level is bringing any of this up?

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Signy: Like ... who?

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Signy: Corporate media??? Oh, yeah, they're going to explain all of the evils of corporatism to us!

Our political representatives, who've gotten into office on the backs of corporate donations and sponsors?

"Public radio" which depends on corporate sponsors and which has a distinct liberal bent? They just want everything to basically stay the same, but "nicer".

Or the internet, which is being strangled by monopolies in Silicon Valley?

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kiki: About the deep structural problems that put people in a Roman arena of the war of all against all, I mean? Did the people who have the historical background and should know better look at MLK and decide they'd rather save their skins?

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Signy: People ARE bringing this up. despite being de-platformed, demonetized, shadow-banned and blacklisted.

You're just not finding them. I listen to corporate media, but I scan Zero Hedge (CAUTION!) and RT every day, and also regularly listen to The Duran, which I highly recommend. I think SIX listens to Jimmie Dore. I don't listen to Tucker Carlson regularly but I've been told he has a good show.

I also listen to Chris Martenson (at least about Covid-19, since it seems to be in bis wheelhouse) and occasionally Greg Mannarino, Jim Willie, Max Keiser, Steve Keene, etc and they ALL bring it up in one way or another.


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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I meant was that the media pretending this was all rainbows and unicorn farts made it more likely that people would come out and join the protests because they thought it was all rainbows and unicorn farts, swelling the numbers.

Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? I think they see everything in black/white terms. MLK was the one changing the focus to economic justice and foreign policy, and look where it got HIM. The people that I mentioned are economists or economic commentators.

Just to round out the list, The Saker is particularly good at military analysis, especially of Europe. Pepe Escobar is a geopolitical analyst specially good with Middle Eastern affairs. South Front has a daily update about the military situation in Syria. Paul Joseph Watson is a cultural satirist. Paul Craig Roberts comments on American politics. I've already linked "A Century of Self" about the push towards individualism ("progressive atomization of society") and consumerism. There was a long video about the formation of The Fed by some religious guy, but it had a tremendous amount of research into it and it REALLY opened my eyes about the role of banks ("rentier capitalists" of money and serial counterfeiters) and especially The Fed's role in driving wealth inequality. I'll see if I can find it again, but you can also read "All the President's Bankers" by Nomi Prins. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17836501-all-the-presidents-banker
s

People will have a hard time finding these sites because google and youtube no longer provide an unbiased list of "recommended content" based on your most recent views, but have decided to "curate" them for you based on their political leanings, so it is unlikely that you would come across them or some of the more extreme sites on your own. But to reiterate, I recommend The Duran. I disagree with some of their viewpoints and their occasional commentator Peter Lavelle is all sputtering, inarticulate huffiness, but they tackle a wide variety of topics across the world and always have something interesting to say.


You might think that the Maidan movement was paltry by comparison, but it was big enough and sufficiently supported by our spooks to overthrow a government. If you think THIS movement is bigger, all the more reason to be concerned that it too will be used to overthrow a government.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I meant was that the media pretending this was all rainbows and unicorn farts made it more likely that people would come out and join the protests because they thought it was all rainbows and unicorn farts, swelling the numbers.

Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? I think they see everything in black/white terms. MLK was the one changing the focus to economic justice and foreign policy, and look where it got HIM.

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The people that I mentioned are economists or economic commentators.

Just to round out the list, The Saker is particularly good at military analysis, especially of Europe. Pepe Escobar is a geopolitical analyst specially good with Middle Eastern affairs. South Front has a daily update about the military situation in Syria. Paul Joseph Watson is a cultural satirist. Paul Craig Roberts comments on American politics. I've already linked "A Century of Self" about the push towards individualism ("progressive atomization of society") and consumerism. There was a long video about the formation of The Fed by some religious guy, but it had a tremendous amount of research into it and it REALLY opened my eyes about the role of banks ("rentier capitalists" of money and serial counterfeiters) and especially The Fed's role in driving wealth inequality. I'll see if I can find it again, but you can also read "All the President's Bankers" by Nomi Prins. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17836501-all-the-presidents-banker
s

People will have a hard time finding these sites because google and youtube no longer provide an unbiased list of "recommended content" based on your most recent views, but have decided to "curate" them for you based on their political leanings, so it is unlikely that you would come across them or some of the more extreme sites on your own. But to reiterate, I recommend The Duran. I disagree with some of their viewpoints and their occasional commentator Peter Lavelle is all sputtering, inarticulate huffiness, but they tackle a wide variety of topics across the world and always have something interesting to say.

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You might think that the Maidan movement was paltry by comparison, but it was big enough and sufficiently supported by our spooks to overthrow a government. If you think THIS movement is bigger, all the more reason to be concerned that it too will be used to overthrow a government.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Yeah, it's true - many Americans are SUPER gullible.

Though WHO they believe is remarkably flexible! They believed the dubya administration when it came to WMDs, and then they believed 'sources' when it came to RUSSIA!RUSSIA!RUSSIA! Well, many people of the hyperventilating never-Trumpers type did.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"The American Government Still Owes A Debt": Reparations Bill Gaining Steam In House

The American GOVERNMENT still owes a debt? Would that be the government that freed the slaves (13th amendment)? Wrote full rights into the Constitution (14th amendment)? Guaranteed former slaves and people of any 'race' full voting rights (15th amendment)? Integrated schools? Passed and enforced the Voting Rights Act to make sure that the theoretical right to vote was an actual one?

You mean after freeing slaves and enshrining the rights of all 'races', THAT American government 'owes' Blacks something? What more could it possibly have done?

Sigh.

People without a clue.



And, yeah, go for it, Nancy. And watch the dems dwindle into nothingness.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Your point is taken, but the comments made in the House were specifically about Blacks, and, as I read it, how they're entitled to extra-special compensation from the US government because of its ... I don't know what. Failure to end slavery? Failure to provide equal Constitutional rights to Blacks? Failure to put muscle behind those equal rights for Blacks?/b]

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Your point is taken, but the comments made in the House were specifically about Blacks, and, as I read it, how they're entitled to extra-special compensation from the US government because of its ... I don't know what. Failure to end slavery? Failure to provide equal Constitutional rights to Blacks? Failure to put muscle behind those equal rights for Blacks?



As for First Nations, I would be happy if the US government started addressing all those many treaties it broke, and belatedly made good on them ... or at least provided equal-value compensation of some type. That would be a Nunavut moment here is the US. (But sadly, I don't expect any of that here - not even a tiny bit.)

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Your point is taken, but the comments made in the House were specifically about Blacks, and, as I read it, how they're entitled to extra-special compensation from the US government because of its ... I don't know what. Failure to end slavery? Failure to provide equal Constitutional rights to Blacks? Failure to put muscle behind those equal rights for Blacks?
As for First Nations, I would be happy if the US government started addressing all those many treaties it broke, and belatedly made good on them ... or at least provided equal-value compensation of some type. That would be a Nunavut moment here is the US. (But sadly, I don't expect any of that here - not even a tiny bit.)

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Originally posted by Brenda:

I understand that was referenced was about Blacks. In my opinion failure to put muscle behind those rights.

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A blanket statement made about your 15th Amendment made me look up those facts Kiki.

You can use American Indian or Native American, which ever you are comfortable with. First Nations is only used in Canada or Indigenous Peoples. Though that phrase is probably used down there in higher education settings.

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No, it won't happen. Too many broken treaties and spilt blood. Also no will to bring us to the table when the talk is about racism. We're still out of sight out of mind.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Y'all watching Trump?

He's killing it.



That's a little preview of what stumbling, bumbling, senile old Biden is going to have to go up against soon.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Your point is taken, but the comments made in the House were specifically about Blacks, and, as I read it, how they're entitled to extra-special compensation from the US government because of its ... I don't know what. Failure to end slavery? Failure to provide equal Constitutional rights to Blacks? Failure to put muscle behind those equal rights for Blacks?
As for First Nations, I would be happy if the US government started addressing all those many treaties it broke, and belatedly made good on them ... or at least provided equal-value compensation of some type. That would be a Nunavut moment here is the US. (But sadly, I don't expect any of that here - not even a tiny bit.)

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Originally posted by Brenda:

I understand that was referenced was about Blacks. In my opinion failure to put muscle behind those rights.

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I'm wondering what leads you to that conclusion. As far as I can tell, the only entity that worked to make equal rights a reality was the federal government. I believe the individual states were the reason for a lot of unequal treatment, with Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, anti-miscegenation laws etc.

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A blanket statement made about your 15th Amendment made me look up those facts Kiki.

You can use American Indian or Native American, which ever you are comfortable with. First Nations is only used in Canada or Indigenous Peoples. Though that phrase is probably used down there in higher education settings.

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(I've read or heard First Nations a lot, though I seriously don't remember when or where. Maybe it was the decade+ of listening to CBC radio out of Toronto. It comes to mind about equally with Native American.)

Anyway, I've read enough to know that tribal lands aren't considered entirely a part of the US - there's some kind of jurisdictional barriers. And that originally tribal lands were considered like a foreign government, which is why the agreements were treaties, a thing used between countries. But the legal complications are something I've never understood. I've tried now and again to unscramble it over questions like - how can the US force an oil pipeline through tribal lands if the tribe is against it? I still don't understand the complications.
Anyway, just of interest, Black MALES got the right to vote in 1870. Women, though citizens, couldn't vote until 1920. And Native Americans became both citizens and got the right to vote in 1924.

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No, it won't happen. Too many broken treaties and spilt blood. Also no will to bring us to the table when the talk is about racism. We're still out of sight out of mind.

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I'm not sure about Canada, but I feel that minority rights here are about dividing and setting one against the other, rather than trying to fulfill the promise of equality for all.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Hey Brenda - as long as you could read my post, I'm good!

And your reply came through very well!

Anyway, I really appreciate you getting back to me. And you've helped my understanding along quite a bit.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What is the real cause? What are the real targets?

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There IS no reason. The targets are those who won in 2016. The deranged hyper far Left demand power, and this is the only way they can get it.

Shut the country down. Destroy the world's best economy. GIVE people money to do nothing, and then invent a cause to get angry over.

Add in Soros paid for goons to organize riots... The ' fun ' has already gone on too long.

Serious use of force needs to be put in play here. China and France went after legitimate protesters with far more force than the these animals have seen.

Time for the boot to fall on the ants.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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SIGNY: I see this as "move and countermove".

They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.


KIKI: I agree that there's been a global conspiracy of tptb to get Trump. And the more they tried, the more obvious it became. And I'm sure there still is that group of people with their same agenda.

But I'm not sure you've seen the video, which was gruesome enough to piss ANYBODY off with the least bit of empathy. People are RIGHTFULLY, RIGHTEOUSLY pissed off. There's no need to invoke some kind of fakery about that.

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Yes, but what about the other roughly 999 people killed by cops every year? This isn't the first outrageous killing by police. And while those other killings sparked protests and even riots in their cities (Ferguson, BTW the whole "Hands up don't shoot" was fake) they didn't spread across the world.

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As for your idea that this is ALL orchestrated - there's no 'what' without a 'how'. How does this happen? How does a shadow group cause protests and riots to spring up in thousands if not tens of thousands of cities and towns across the US?

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"Never let a good crisis go to waste" Antifa, for one. They are loosely organized but have groups in every major and medium-sized city.

Social internet groups. The time is ripe: Schools are closed, there is no summer school, universities are doing online only, and a lot of the summer McJobs that would have kept some young people busy are also closed.

And of course the M$M. This story would hve died an inglorious death if they had not dierted their nonstop Covid-19 coverage to this.

I would say FOLLOW THE MONEY. But that needs investigation.

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So no, it's not ALL orchestrated.

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No, but some groups are extremely pre-prepared to weaponize whatever event pops up.

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And finally, yanno - sometimes shit happens. And sometimes presidents really step into the shit with their own responses. Soros didn't invent Trump's god-awful response to either SARS-COV-2 or the protests. Those events really did expose his serious shortcomings.

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I fault Trump for his Covid-19 response. But as it turns out, there is more to controlling Covid-19 than lockdowns, so I fault him ... and the CDC, and WHO ... for not having a "plan B" in place.

AFA Trump's response to the protests ... I think the National Guard should have jumped in with both boots to quell the looting and destruction. The same scenario played out over and over ... "It started out peaceful, but ..."

Then violent elements activated and opportunistic looters showed up. I was watching live coverage, and while they were interviewing a few people in Santa Monica ... residents and shopkeepers who were terrorized by the looting and violence... during the whole 10-minute interview they were showing on split screen looters in Long Beach pillaging a Walgreens and several other stores in a small strip mall. These looters were embedded in a PEACEFUL march, they would simply peel off from the crowd to duck into the broken-open stores, sometimes leaving a lookout, or (towards the end of the event) driving up in cars to haul stuff away. The moment the sirens sounded you could see them literally drop their goods, stuff their hand in their pockets and walk away.

The reason why it took LB police so long to react is because they were also busy defending police HQ.

In other cases, people shoot from a crowd of largely peaceful protesters. In such a situation, you can't separate the sheep from the goats, EVERYONE needs to clear the streets.

I compare these protests (which are more like flashmobs) unfavorably to the Gilets Jaunes, who had good control of the elements in their protests.

But I have to ask: WHY NOW? WHY SO BIG? WHY INTERNATIONAL? Especially the "international" part ... that to me points to a less-than-spontaneous reaction.

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Do I think Biden is better? Jeeze louise, the guy's the water boy for the global evil and corrupt. But I don't have to be for one to be against the other. And you can take that in either direction.

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When I see who is arranged against Trump and the depths to which they will go, I know which side I'm on.

I take it for granted that we can all agree that there should be no more prejudice and discrimination for, or against, anyone.* IMHO that is a SETTLED ISSUE. The same goes for police violence against civilians. Who could possibly be be FOR it? (BTW, there is some speculation that the cop who killed George Floyd was involved in some kind of money laundering operation at the club where he worked for 17 years as security, along with George Floyd who had only worked there for a year, and that maybe Floyd ... who was found with a counterfeit $20 on him, had stumbled onto this operation, and that maybe this was not as undirected and random killing as was thought. There is probably a lot more to this story than we know.)

Instead of rioting and protesting, we should be working together to implement the policy changes that will make police accountability possible, even if it means replacing the entire City Hall, City Council, and police leadership and half of the police force to do it. I don't think you need to get anyone "on side" on these issues if you frame it right. But right now, all that is happening is pitting blacks against whites again, and young against old again, and small storekeepers against "the people" again when the real source of the problem is elsewhere.

*BTW SIX, it is possible to have discrimination both FOR and AGAINST the same group of people operating at the same time. That goes for white males who still have a more positive immediate response than - say- black males, at the same time that white hetero males are not a "protected class" under anti-discrimination laws and may still suffer from prejudice in family court. Being a white male is a mixed bag, just as being a black trans is a mixed bag.

I just firmly believe that we should all be judged on the same criteria as anyone else, and stop focusing on people as categories (identity politics). We should have a accountability applied at the individual level, to everyone, from Jeff Bezos to the most disadvantaged homeless person. Maybe too much to ask, but an ideal worth working towards.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"The American Government Still Owes A Debt": Reparations Bill Gaining Steam In House

The American GOVERNMENT still owes a debt? Would that be the government that freed the slaves (13th amendment)? Wrote full rights into the Constitution (14th amendment)? Guaranteed former slaves and people of any 'race' full voting rights (15th amendment)? Integrated schools? Passed and enforced the Voting Rights Act to make sure that the theoretical right to vote was an actual one?

You mean after freeing slaves and enshrining the rights of all 'races', THAT American government 'owes' Blacks something? What more could it possibly have done?

Sigh.

People without a clue.


And, yeah, go for it, Nancy. And watch the dems dwindle into nothingness.

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Your 15th Amendment did nothing for me and mine KIKI. That was written in 1870.

Native Americans could have citizenship and voting rights in 1887 with the DAWES ACT but that said that we had to give up our tribal claims. No more Crow, Cheyenne, Lakota, Apache, Hopi, Zuni, Mandan, Shoshoni, Chickasaw, Cherokee or any other tribe you can name in the US.

Native Americans weren't granted citizenship until 1924 with the Citizenship Act which then granted us voting rights.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"The American Government Still Owes A Debt": Reparations Bill Gaining Steam In House

The American GOVERNMENT still owes a debt? Would that be the government that freed the slaves (13th amendment)? Wrote full rights into the Constitution (14th amendment)? Guaranteed former slaves and people of any 'race' full voting rights (15th amendment)? Integrated schools? Passed and enforced the Voting Rights Act to make sure that the theoretical right to vote was an actual one?

You mean after freeing slaves and enshrining the rights of all 'races', THAT American government 'owes' Blacks something? What more could it possibly have done?

Sigh.

People without a clue.


And, yeah, go for it, Nancy. And watch the dems dwindle into nothingness.

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Your 15th Amendment did nothing for me and mine KIKI. That was written in 1870.

Native Americans could have citizenship and voting rights in 1887 with the DAWES ACT but that said that we had to give up our tribal claims. No more Crow, Cheyenne, Lakota, Apache, Hopi, Zuni, Mandan, Shoshoni, Chickasaw, Cherokee or any other tribe you can name in the US.

Native Americans weren't granted citizenship until 1924 with the Citizenship Act which then granted us voting rights.

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In America, I believe all Native Tribes who chose to remain are defined as Sovereign Nations - at least all of the ones in Wisconsin that I know of seem to be.

In 1870, just following the Civil War, I don't think U.S. Citizens were allowed to have Dual Citizenship. Citizens had their Citizenship status from their State - there was no Federal Citizenship at that time. The Union was concerned about Seditionists, Confederates, and other malcontents wandering around causing trouble within the Reunited States, and Citizens who insisted loyalty to a separate Sovereign Nation swere not allowed, as I recall. Native Americans were provided their own choice, to freely choose to become a member of a State (which were still being formed back then), or to remain a subject of one of the Sovereign Nations - but not both. This wasn't against Natives, it was applied to everybody equally, as I understand.

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