Hillary saves the day by dreamtrove

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Hillary saves the day

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Sunday, March 5, 2006 12:05
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Saturday, March 4, 2006 5:55 PM

Here's the events as I see them unfolding:

2006. Hillary is elected to a second senate term after running virtually unopposed.
2007. Cheney resigns due to health reasons and Bush appoints Condi Rice as Vice President.
2008. The GOP primary is a formality as Condi is nominated Republican Presidential candidate for 2008.
2008. Hillary enters the democratic primary with an organized group of eager young feminists who she leads into the need for a woman in the whitehouse.
2009. Hillary, as the duly democratically elected leader of the free world will instantly enact a 100 days program of "I am not Bush" to prove to the world that she is not Bush, even thought she really is Bush.
The program goes as follows:

1. She reverses the Bush deficit spending financial crisis, and is regarded by the people as a hero for doing so. No one pays too close attention, particularly in the media, to how she does so. In reality, what she does is this:
a. Cuts all federal services for the people that are not corporate welfare by at least 50%
b. Sells off govt. assets (the people's property, remember) to foreign investors to use to help pay the govt's own debt.
c. Raises taxes on t he poor and working classes subtlely, not directly, by closing "Tax Loopholes" IOW, by getting rid of decucations that families rely on, thus reversing Reagan's landmark '84 tax bill's benefits for the poor and middle class, but leaving in place the benefits for the rich.
2. She targets and captures a terorrist leader. She elects not to capture Bin Laden because of his value as an enemy, and captures Al Zarqawi instead. This is easy, she just spend the money necessary to do it.
3. She uses 2. as a reason that the conflict has ended and withdraws from Iraq, or whatever conflict we are in, leaving chaos. Very few troops come home, but it's very visible, and there are parades. She keeps a large force stationed their for her own wars which she will silently slip into later.
4. She starts the rebuilding of New Orleans, which she does in America's most corrupt emminant domain swap ever, and Halliburton gets the bulk of the construction contracts. Black people are relegated to housing projects and most of the city becomes more of a houston style business city. Dubai runs the port.
5. She starts construction of the New WTC in NYC, and dubs it Freedom Tower.

Later on, she will continue to give the people's money away to her friends in huge hand outs, fight massive conflicts against a militarily inferior foe by bombing them into submission with little regard to the very high human casualty, and she blatantly disregards the wholesale destruction of the environment for what are truly miniscule fractions of profit. For all of her work, she is regarded as a hero for four years, and re-elected. Only then does it begin to pall.

As the new democratic powerbase grows the old republican guard takes over the GOP from the neocon influence, to become the ineffectual voice of the minority. They don't regress to the Roosevelt-Eisenhower days, but more of a Nixon-Reagan spread. By 2013, Republicans hold 40% of seats, and forced to cut deals in order to get 10% of their way and 90% of the democrats. A few democrats vehemently object to the new democratic party, and at least one goes independent in protest.

So the question is, assuming I'm more or less on target:

Do you Bush supporters drop your support for a new GOP and it's old fashioned and marginalized existance in favor of the New Democrats, who more closely resemble Bush in their policies? Or do you stick by the potentially shrinking Republican Party?
And for the Democrats, do you stick by the New Democrats in spite of the fact that they may not be totally what you want because of other issue, or do you join the shriking and old-fashioned GOP as a protest to continue resistance to the neocon agenda?

I'm actually curious to know what people would do, if all of these things come to pass as I suspect they will.

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:33 PM

FLETCH2

I see two problems with this.

1) Condi Rice is too smart to want to run for President, very few people woulod want to live their lives in a fishbowl and have every decision they ever made in their lives, good or bad, disected on television.

2) If the Dems push Hillary they will loose. She is one of the very few politicians these days that tend to have such a black and white love/hate reaction with the American public. Like I said before electorates are around 30% core support for each party, about 10% soft support for each and 20% genuine undecided/floating voters. To win you need at least those floaters, preferably you need to poach one of your oppositions key platforms in the hope of geting some of their 10% soft vote. Hillary can't deliver that for the Dems, party activists may like her, the DLC will obviously push her but the only way she could win is if the Rep deliberately looses OR we see a more traditional right wing 3rd party canidate.

Now if Steve Forbes throws his hat in the ring (appart from showing that maybe the TE idea has legs) then maybe, but he would have to do it in the general election not the primary.

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 7:45 PM

SEVENPERCENT

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:

2) If the Dems push Hillary they will loose. She is one of the very few politicians these days that tend to have such a black and white love/hate reaction with the American public. Like I said before electorates are around 30% core support for each party, about 10% soft support for each and 20% genuine undecided/floating voters. To win you need at least those floaters, preferably you need to poach one of your oppositions key platforms in the hope of geting some of their 10% soft vote. Hillary can't deliver that for the Dems, party activists may like her, the DLC will obviously push her but the only way she could win is if the Rep deliberately looses OR we see a more traditional right wing 3rd party canidate.

Fletch, I more or less agree with you, but I can see Hillary winning if one thing happens: The SD abortion issue goes through. You talk about hard and soft support, and I think you're spot on, which is why I think that issue can make or break Hillary as a candidate. Here's my reasoning:

Even Bush has said that that bill isn't a good idea, but the hard-core religious right might try to push it. If they do, and by some miracle it makes it to the Supremes and it is upheld, you can almost count Hillary as a lock for the Presidency. She'll get lots of "soft" voters who are not thrilled about the no rape/incest/health thing, as well as some classic conservatives who think more gov't control over lives is wrong, and for the first time ever the Dems could run on the abortion issue and win.

However, if the issue is rejected, the sides go right back to the 50/50 stalemate they are now over that issue, and I don't think Hillary is strong enough on any others to win. She supported the war, is to the right of the Dem base (and they recognize it), and has no real issue that makes her stand out (maybe healthcare, but she dropped that after Bill left office).

Frankly, I don't see Condi as a great candidate anyway. She's becoming known as a yes-man for Bush, and if the administration keeps bungling things as they are, I see anyone connected to it being seen as tainted. I almost think the GOP will need to take a shot at an outside candidate (at this juncture, at least) to win against any decent Dem in 2006 or 08.

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 3:53 AM

DREAMTROVE

Fletch,

I think you underestimate two things:

1. The degree to which loyal members will take one for the team. Condi will do anything of rthem, that's apparent. I would hope you're right that she wouldn't want to take the fal, but I doubt it. Besides, even if she refuses, the plan still goes forward only with someone else like Newt Gingrich, who I generally like, but am begrudgingly beginning to accept is a member of the team. He is also a person who can easily lose to Hillary.

2. Hillary Rodham Clinton. People hate her? Yeah, sure they do, people who are paying attention. But that will all evaporate. This woman, who is probably one of the most corrupt people in politics today, has an amazing rhetorical talent. She can talk and make you think, as I said before, that disagreeing with her actually means killing kittens. The mindless American television viewing audience will eat it up. Hillary in debates, campaign commercials, and talk show interviews will show the people that Republicans are evil, eat puppies and safrafice babies on the altar to the almighty dollar. She'll cite an endless string of Bush policies that she not only voted for, but helped craft, as examples.

I would confess that it is possible that she will be the VP on the ticket, but I doubt it. I used to be certain she'd be the VP, now I'm not at all. The other player will likely be another team player, Ben Nelson of Nebraska is still my pick. I would think DiFi, but the democrats will not risk a chick-chick ticket. Difi's role will most likely be to enter the primary race to split Feingold's vote.

I didn't think of Forbes as the third party splitter, that's a much better idea than Robertson, who was my choice. I can see Forbes running for the nomination and then going 3rd party, and speaking truth to power. If he runs, he'll become the voice of reason, and, like Perot, carefully and intentionally engineer his own defeat. Or win, it's the same to him, but if he makes platform commitments he doesn't want ot keep, he'll intentionally lose. Actually, that's such a strong idea, that they might even let McCain have the nomination on the theory that they can defeat him in a three way split. But my guess is not, these people will not want to pit Hillary against McCain, they'll go for someone they know they can beat like Condi or Newt.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 4:00 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Even Bush has said that that bill isn't a good idea, but the hard-core religious right might try to push it. If they do, and by some miracle it makes it to the Supremes and it is upheld, you can almost count Hillary as a lock for the Presidency.

An excellent point. The abortion ban is probably the Bush team's idea, and since they want Hillary elected, they will push it. I was thinking if the court rules in its favor, the abortion battle would be over, but of course, it wouldn't, it would just be upholding a state's right to ban the practice. Then there would be a state by state battle.

My guess is Condi will not be someone who can be as trusted to follow the team objective once elected to the same extent that Hillary will. Mainly because Condi is a traditional republican, and a newer member of the team, joining in '99, Hillary has been in the TE mixers since the '70s like Bill. But she still might follow them over the cliff. She is ambitious enough to actually want the job. She might fall for it not knowing that they will throw up a Forbes to block the nominaton. Well, I guess if the split comes down that way, I'll probably through my ineffective support behind her quixotic bid.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 5:08 AM

SIMONWHO

Dreamtrove, your future vision is so far off the mark, it makes Buck Rogers look like a documentary.

1. Rice will never ever ever ever be considered as a Republican candidate for the presidency or even the vice presidency. In case you have noticed she is a) not white, b) a woman and c) a lesbian (or rather unmarried with no regular list of boyfriends which in political terms equals lesbian whether true or not). Just one of these properties instantly disqualifies her from the Republican candidateship for Presidency. All three?

2. Both the US and the UK will have left Iraq (or have purely a nominal force remaining) by the next Presidential election. It would be political suicide to do otherwise, therefore it will be done.

3. Work on the replacement World Trade Center is already well underway. And yes, the tallest building will be called Freedom, though this is nothing to do with Hillary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Tower

Personally I think Hillary won't win because too many Americans don't think a woman can lead them. Granted, this leaves you in the group containing Iran, Saudia Arabia, China and other such uncivilised countries and not the group containing Sri Lanka, India and Bangladesh and other countries that are meant to be "developing" but if the cap fits...

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 9:52 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Condi the Black Widowmaker refers to King George II as "my husband". She's a brown-nosing butt-linking yes-man. She does exactly like she's told like a good nigger (house nigger refers to any color of slave - the first slaves sold in America were white Euros). So Condi Bush is a logical choice for GOPsters, to double-team the sheeple to think a 10% "majority" actually want "Jewish" multi-trillionaire Hillary Rodham-Cohen Clinton-Blythe Rockefeller.

Trillionaire Babs Bush calls Hillary her "daughter in law" and Bill "her son", when the Clintons vacation at the Bush compound in Kennebunkport Texas, er, Maine. They're on the same team, and just follow orders from the "Jewish" banksters who counterfeited all the money in the world.

Dole never tried to win in 96 (he spent election night in Knoxville TN with CanniBill Frist at a nightclub owned by an indicted Arab terrorist). Gore never tried to win in 2000. Kerry never tried to win in 2004. Condi won't try to win in 2008. That's why the "losers" get paid big bucks, like Kerry/Cohn's $51-million bribe in "leftover campaign contributions". Hell, he's a Jewish billionaire, the richest US senator (a working-class man of "the people's party") but he couldn't afford $150,000 for a recount in Ohio? I put up a bigger fight over a parking ticket.

Gore conceeded before the votes were even counted, then recanted after finding out he won, then voluntarily dismissed his appeal, after US Supreme Court said he won and remanded it back to Florida Supreme Court. Just in Knox County TN, 25,000 registered votes disappeared in 2000 thanks to our Skull & Bones mayor Victor Victoria Ashe. Gore allegedly lost TN, and allegedly lost florida by 500 votes. If a man won't fight over an election, you can't trust him to fight for a nation. Nor can you trust a convicted criminal who cheats an election.

Note that PAX TV's Unexplained Mysteries accused Hillary and/or Giuliani of murdering JFK Jr, who CNN reported was planning to run for US Senate against them in 2000, and against the Junior White House in 2004. In both races, he'd be a slam dunk. So his plane exploded on final approach, as eyewitnessed by a dozen credible witnesses to the wedding party. The crash debris was shredded, indicative of explosion, not compression. He had 700 hours time as pilot in command, and already passed his IFR written test, and completed all his training, and was flying in perfect weather. John Koe Kennedy did run for president in 2004. Why'd the Media Mafia forget to report it?

Unless the majority switches to 3rd, 4th or 5th parties, they're gonna get killed again and again. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. But it's probably too late, with votin computers hacked to flip votes from 20% to 80%. How do you KNOW your vote was counted, if you didn't bother to check for yourself at the county election commission records? DOH!
www.BlackBoxVoting.org

"Half of writing history is hiding the truth."
-Mal, STM

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO (VERSION 2)
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

Pirate News TV
Knoxville, Tennessee
Winner Best Music Video
"We Never Went to the Moon"
(no rocket exhaust as Apollo LEM "blasted off" from the "moon")
Los Angeles Music Awards 2005
http://piratenews.org/hollywood.html
http://ufoetry.com

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 11:40 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

Heres how I see it going:
Condi tricks Hilary into posing for Playboy and after she is discredited wins the Pressy elections on the "We've never had a black woman in the whitehouse before and I cant be any worse than the idiots before me so what have we got to lose" ticket.
Far-fetched? We'll see.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 12:03 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Pirate News:

I put up a bigger fight over a parking ticket.

I really agree. I think Dole's stance was "You're election, sire," Gore's was "Waah!, well okay, If you please," and Kerry's was "I don't lose, but I have promised my secret skull and bones favor to you, so you win."

If Dole had wanted to win in 1996, he just would ahve had to make a deaql with Perot, since it was a guarantee that Clinton was not going to get a majority of the vote (All issues aside, he's a democrat, it's always a guarantee.) Perot, too, did not want the job.

The last election where candidates actually wanted to win was.... Hmm. I would be tempted to say Dukakis. He certainly handed the election to Bush, but I'm not sure he did so intentionally.

Interesting JFK Jr. theory. I have seen RFK Jr. speak here, he's a local. Very charasmatic intelligent guy who doesn't want to run for office because he thinks someone would kill him.

As usual, you're thorough, and I think basically correct. Certainly the current resistance efforts based on advertising to an audience who votes in an electronic machine which is run by a company owned by party leaders, who knows whio voted how?

People have to organize and know thei voters.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 12:05 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Condi tricks Hilary into posing for Playboy and after she is discredited wins the Pressy elections on the "We've never had a black woman in the whitehouse before and I cant be any worse than the idiots before me so what have we got to lose" ticket.
Far-fetched? We'll see.

With Condi's exercise video we're not too far form that point. Rrrr. Let the catfight roll.

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