The Liberty Incident by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Liberty Incident

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Sunday, April 9, 2006 11:05
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Thursday, April 6, 2006 3:19 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

The survivors are still trying to untie the knot of the Liberty Incident. After all this time, the debate will not go away. Seems to me that declassifying all documents pertaining to the incident would end the debate.

What do you think happened?

"Never before in the history of the United States Navy has a Navy Board of Inquiry ignored the testimony of American military eyewitnesses and taken, on faith, the word of their attackers.
-- Captain Richard F. Kiepfer, Medical Corps, US Navy (retired), USS Liberty Survivor

From Wikipedia:

The attack on the Liberty

USS Liberty (AGTR-5) was originally the 7,725-ton (light) civilian cargo ship Simmons Victory. She was acquired by the United States Navy, converted to an Auxiliary Technical Research Ship (AGTR), and began her first deployment in 1965, to waters off the west coast of Africa. She carried out several more operations during the next two years. During the Six-Day War between Israel and the Arab nations, she was sent to collect electronic intelligence in the eastern Mediterranean.

On June 4, the day before the start of the Six-Day War, Israel asked if the United States had any ships in the region. The United States responded that it did not—and it didn't, since the Liberty was just entering the Mediterranean Sea at this time. In addition, five messages had been sent to Liberty warning it to come no closer than 100 nautical miles (185 km) to the Sinai coast. These messages were not received.

On June 5, at the start of the war, the Liberty was already in the eastern Mediterranean. Captain William L. McGonagle of the Liberty immediately asked Vice Admiral William I. Martin at the U.S. 6th Fleet headquarters to send a destroyer to accompany the Liberty and serve as its armed escort and as an auxiliary communications center.

The following day, June 6, Admiral Martin replied: “Liberty is a clearly marked United States ship in international waters, not a participant in the conflict and not a reasonable subject for attack by any nation. Request denied.” He promised, however, that in the unlikely event of an inadvertent attack, jet fighters from the Sixth Fleet could be overhead in ten minutes.

During the morning of the attack, early June 8, the ship was flown over by several Israeli Air Force (IAF) aircraft. Their exact number and type is disputed; at least one was a Nord Noratlas "flying boxcar" (claimed by the survivors and confirmed by Israel); a photograph presents a C-47 Dakota and other reports speak about Mirage III jet fighters. At least some of those flybys were from a close range. In fact, at 6:00 a.m. Sinai (GMT +2) time that morning, Israel confirmed that a Nord Noratlas identified the ship as the USS Liberty. Many Liberty crewmen gave testimony that one of the aircraft flew so close to Liberty that its propellers rattled the deck plating of the ship, and the pilots waved to the crew of the Liberty, and the crewmen waved back.

At this time, the ship was readying to turn south towards the coast of the Sinai Peninsula from its previous eastern direction. It would then turn east and patrol at 5 knots (9 km/h) in international waters, 13 nautical miles (23 km) off the Sinai Peninsula near El-Arish, just outside Egypt's territorial waters.

According to Israel, the Israeli military had standing orders to attack any unidentified vessel near the shore. At about 2 p.m., Liberty was attacked by several IAF aircraft, possibly two or three Mirage IIIs, carrying cannon and rockets, followed by Dassault Mysteres carrying napalm.

About twenty minutes after the aircraft attack, the ship was approached by three torpedo boats bearing Israeli flags and identification signs. Initially, Captain McGonagle, who perceived that the torpedo boats "were approaching the ship in a torpedo launch attitude," ordered a machine gun to engage the boats. After recognizing the Israeli standard and seeing apparent morse code signalling attempts by one of the boats (but being unable to see what was being sent, due to the smoke of the fire started by the earlier aircraft attack), McGonagle gave the order to cease fire. This order was apparently misunderstood in the confusion, and two heavy machine guns opened fire. Subsequently, the Israeli boats opened fire and launched at least two torpedoes at Liberty (five according to the 1982 IDF History Department report). One hit Liberty on the starboard side forward of the superstructure, creating a large hole in what had been a former cargo hold converted to the ships research spaces, causing the majority of the casualties in the incident. The torpedo boats approached Liberty and strafed crewmen (including damage control parties and sailors preparing life rafts for launch) on deck. (See disputed details below.)

Eventually, the torpedo boats withdrew from the area. Israel states its aircraft crews were at first afraid they had attacked a Soviet ship, which might bring the Soviet Union into the war. When the ship was confirmed to have been American, the torpedo boats returned to offer help; it was refused by the American ship. About three hours after the attack, Israel informed the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv about the incident and provided a helicopter to fly a U.S. naval attaché to the ship.

Though severely damaged, with a 50-foot (15 m) hole and a twisted keel, Liberty's crew kept her afloat, and she was able to leave the area under her own power. She was escorted to Malta by units of the U.S. 6th Fleet and was there given interim repairs. After these were completed in July 1967, Liberty returned to the United States. She was decommissioned in June 1968 and struck from the Naval Vessel Register. Liberty was transferred to U.S. Maritime Administration (MARAD) in December 1970 and sold for scrap in 1973.

Captain William L. McGonagle, the USS Liberty's commander, received the highest U.S. medal, the Medal of Honor, for his actions during the incident. However, his medal is the only MOH not to be awarded by the U.S. President in a formal event. It was instead awarded at the Washington Navy Yard by the Secretary of the Navy.

Investigations of the attack

Since the attack on the USS Liberty, those supporting the accidental-attack theory claim that ten official U.S. investigations and 3 or more official Israeli investigations have concluded that the event was a tragic mistake and a case of mistaken identity.: [1]. However, those supporting the intentional-attack theory say that the Israeli investigations were to decide whether or not anyone in the Israeli Defense Forces should be tried on crimes (no wrongdoing was found), and that the fact that the attack was a mistake was a given. They also assert that five U.S. congressional investigations and four other U.S. investigations were not investigations at all, but rather reports using evidence only from the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, and that some never occurred at all. Additionally, they insist that the majority of those nine U.S. reports have nothing to do with the culpability of the attack. Rather, they discuss issues such as communications failures. [2]. The remaining U.S. investigation (the Naval Court of Inquiry) is in great controversy (see below).

On December 17, 1987, the issue was officially closed by the exchange of diplomatic notes between the U.S. and Israel. Israel also eventually paid nearly $13 million in humanitarian reparations to the United States and in compensation to the families of the victims.

Israeli investigations

Three subsequent Israeli inquiries concluded the attack was conducted because Liberty was confused with an Egyptian vessel and because of failures of communications between Israel and the U.S. The three Israeli commissions were:

Preliminary Inquiry by Colonel Ram Ron ("Ram Ron Report" - June 1967)
Inquiry by Examining Judge Y. Yerushalmi ("Yerushalmi Report" -July 1967). online at this link
"The Liberty Incident" - IDF History Department Report (1982)

The Israeli government claimed that three crucial errors were made: the refreshing of the status board (nullifying the ship's classification as American), the erroneous identification of the ship as an Egyptian vessel, and the lack of notification from the returning aircraft informing Israeli headquarters of markings on the front of the hull (markings that would not be found on an Egyptian ship). As the general root of these problems, Israel blamed the combination of alarm and tiredness experienced by the Israeli forces at that point of the war.

American investigations
Ten official American investigations are claimed regarding the Liberty incident.

Critics assert that five U.S. congressional investigations and four other U.S. investigations were not investigations into the attack at all, but rather reports using evidence only from the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, or investigations unrelated to the culpability of the attack but rather discussing issues such as communcations. In their view, the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry is the only investigation on the incident to date. They claim it was hastily conducted, in only 10 days, even though the court’s president, Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd, said that it would take 6 months to properly conduct.

Additionally, the court's legal counsel, Captain Ward Boston, JACG, U.S. Navy, has stated that the government ordered him and Kidd to falsely report that the attack was a mistake, and his statement says that he and Kidd believed the attack was deliberate. He wrote this declaration with regard to the evidence and conclusions (pdf) presented to the inquiry that he and Admiral Kidd, President of the U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry, shared regarding the incident. He wrote, in part,

"The evidence was clear. Both Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack, which killed 34 American sailors and injured 172 others, was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew. Each evening, after hearing testimony all day, we often spoke our private thoughts concerning what we had seen and heard. I recall Admiral Kidd repeatedly referring to the Israeli forces responsible for the attack as 'murderous bastards.' It was our shared belief, based on the documentary evidence and testimony we received first hand, that the Israeli attack was planned and deliberate, and could not possibly have been an accident."
Critics of Boston believe that he is not telling the truth in regard to Kidd's views and any pressure from the government (see this PDF). Supporters of the intentional-attack theory believe that this invalidates the conclusions of the Court.

Ongoing controversy

This incident stands as the only peacetime attack on a U.S. naval vessel not investigated by Congress. The survivors want a full Congressional hearing; they hold that a proper investigation has never taken place and that all previous reports are incomplete, mention the incident in passing, and either that they are intended to exonerate Israel or that they do not even question the culpability of the attack (instead, they hold, it focuses on other topics, such as American communication problems).

Israel denied all accusations that the attack was deliberate using the following arguments:

The incident took place during the Six Day War when Israel was engaged in battles with three Arab countries, creating an environment where mistakes and confusion were prevalent. For example, at 11:45, a few hours before the attack, there was a large explosion on the shores of El-Arish followed by black smoke, probably caused by the destruction of an ammunition dump by retreating Egyptian forces. The Israeli army thought the area was being bombarded, and that an unidentified ship offshore was responsible. (According to U.S. sources, the USS Liberty was 14 nautical miles (26 km) from those shores at the time of the attack.)

The attacking aircraft used napalm rockets and machine guns. Machine guns are often used to keep a ship's company under cover, thus keeping them from manning weather deck stations and doing damage control topside. Machine guns are ineffective armament for doing real damage to a steel-hulled ship--other than starting fires in combustibles.

Liberty opened fire first on the gunboats (though after the aerial attacks). Note: Any ship is entitled to return fire after having been attacked first. Attacking a military unit or naval vessel of another nation is legally an Act of War.

No adequate benefit has been put forward that the Israelis would derive from the attack on an American ship, especially considering the high cost of the predictable complications that must inevitably follow such an attack on a powerful ally, and the fact that Israel immediately notified the American embassy after the attack.

Aircraft pelted the superstructure with machine-gun and rocket fire.Virtually all of the survivors of Liberty, some U.S. government officials and some U.S. military officers have asserted that the attack was premeditated. Jim Ennes, a junior officer (and off-going Officer of the Deck) on Liberty's bridge at the time of the attack, has published a book titled Assault on the Liberty. Like virtually all accounts of the "Liberty" incident, it has come under heavy criticism by those disagreeing with its point of view.

Ennes and Joe Meadors, another survivor of the attack, run a web site that was built "with support and encouragement from the USS Liberty Veterans Association." Meadors states that the classification of the attack as deliberate is the official policy of the association, to which all known survivors belong. Other survivors run several additional websites.

Several books and the BBC documentary USS Liberty: Dead in the Water tried to prove USS Liberty was attacked on purpose. They are backed in this position by some representatives of the U.S. intelligence community. Critics claim many of them include incorrect assumptions and use fuzzy reasoning. For example, they claim the ship was attacked to prevent the U.S. from knowing about the forthcoming attack in the Golan Heights, although materials declassified in 1997 stated Israel had already notified the U.S. of the attack in advance.

The 1981 book Weapons by Russell Warren Howe asserts that the Liberty was accompanied by the Polaris submarine USS Andrew Jackson, which filmed the entire episode through its periscope but was unable to provide assistance. According to Howe: "Two hundred feet below the ship, on a parallel course, was its 'shadow'- the Polaris strategic submarine Andrew Jackson, whose job was to take out all the Israeli long-range missile sites in the Negev if Tel Aviv decided to attack Cairo, Damascus or Baghdad. This was in order that Moscow would not have to perform this task itself and thus trigger World War Three."

James Bamford, a former ABC News producer, in his book Body of Secrets, proposes a different possible motive for a deliberate attack: "to cover up a massacre of 1,000 Egyptian prisoners of war" that was supposedly taking place at the same time in the nearby town of El-Arish. Bamford has no concrete evidence to back this accusation, except a confirmation by a single anonymous Egyptian. He cites a supporting Israeli source that "150 prisoners were executed," but this source, Gabi Bron, an Israeli reporter, claims Bamford misrepresented his report by using only partial sentences from it, which in fact wholly referred to the execution of 5 Palestinian guerillas, and other than that, he saw no mass murders. Further adding evidence against this claim was that Egypt has ruled El-Arish and the whole of the Sinai peninsula for over 20 years since Israel returned it in the early 1980s, yet no mass graves have been found, nor has Egypt reported such an incident occurring. In any event, the possibility of a ship at sea discovering such a crime on land, at or beyond the limit of its visual range, is unlikely (according to U.S. accounts, the ship was 14 nautical miles (26 km) from shore at the time of the attack, and did not get much closer to it previously).

In 2003 journalist Peter Hounam wrote Operation Cyanide: How the Bombing of the USS Liberty Nearly Caused World War III, which proposes a completely different theory regarding the incident. In an attempt to explain why there was no support by U.S. forces as backup, Hounam claims that Israel and U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson had secretly agreed on day four of the Six Day War that the USS Liberty would be sunk with complete loss of life. The attack would be blamed on Egypt, allowing the U.S. in turn to attack Egypt, thus helping out Israel. However, according to Hounam's theory, because the Liberty did not sink after two hours, the plan was quickly reversed, Israel apologized for the case of mistaken identity, and a cover-up put into place. Likewise the BBC documentary (2002) claims that the Liberty incident provoked the launch of nuclear-armed planes targeted against Cairo from a US aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean. They were recalled only just in time, when it was clear the Liberty had not sunk with all hands, and that Israel was responsible [3].

Nevertheless, it must also be noted that from the early 1950s up to shortly before the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel's primary military ally was France. The United States, with a few exceptions, consistently refused requests for sales of offensive weapons to Israel until 1968. The height of French-Israeli cooperation was in the 1956 Suez war, when France, Israel and the United Kingdom participated in a combined ground, sea and air offensive against Egypt, despite stringent opposition (and even threats) by the United States and the Soviet Union.

Israeli officials and Jewish organizations worldwide have asserted that materials claiming the Liberty incident was deliberate are often used as a pretext for anti-Semitic declarations and acts. They claim these reviews often do not give Israel the benefit of the doubt, turning the incident into an obsessive circus for Israel bashing, especially in comparison to the treatment of other incidents involving foreign attacks on U.S. vessels. Meadors and Ennes have denied an anti-Semitic pretext in their work, and have repeatedly expressed sharp disapproval at the use of the USS Liberty incident in anti-Semitic contexts, and have pointed out that some of the ship's company was Jewish.

On July 2, 2003, as a result of Florida Judge Jay Cristol's (retired Naval carrier pilot) lawsuit using the Freedom of Information Act, the National Security Agency made two significant admissions: there had been no radio intercepts made by USS Liberty, and there had been no radio intercepts made by the U.S. submarine Amberjack. The National Security Agency released copies of the recordings it made from an EC-121 aircraft in the vicinity of the attacks from 2:30 p.m. to 3:27 p.m. Sinai time, and the resultant translations and summaries. The tapes show that the helicopters were first dispatched to rescue Egyptians, and then demonstrate the confusion as to the identification of the target ship. Cristol adds: "The tapes confirm that the helicopter pilot observed the flag at 3:12 p.m." which would coincide with the audio tapes the Israel Air Force released to Judge Cristol of the radio transmissions before, during and after the attack. The English translations of the Israeli Air Force tapes are published in Appendix 2 of Judge Cristol's book The Liberty Incident.

On October 10, 2003, the Jerusalem Post ran an interview with Yiftah Spector, one of the pilots who participated in the attack [4], and thought to be the lead pilot of the first wave of planes. Spector stated in the interview that the ship was assumed to be Egyptian at the time of the attack; the transcripts of the Israeli communications about the Liberty are also in interview.

As of 2005, the National Security Agency (NSA) has yet to declassify "boxes and boxes" of Liberty documents. Numerous requests under both declassification directives and the Freedom of Information Act are pending in various agencies including the NSA, Central Intelligence Agency, and Defense Intelligence Agency.

On June 8, 2005 the USS Liberty Veterans Associations filed a "Report of War Crimes Committed Against the U.S. Military, June 8, 1967" with the Department of Defense. Department of Defense Directive 5100.77 requires the Department of Defense to conduct a thorough investigations of the allegations contained in this report.

[edit]
Details in dispute
The events surrounding the attack, even very simple elements such as its duration, are the subject of fierce controversy. Among the disputed facts:

Visibility of ensign: The most vehemently debated point is the visibility of the large American flags that the ship was flying; Americans claimed the flags were clearly visible in the wind. The Israeli pilots claimed they were either unable to notice it altogether (possibly due to there being no wind, or because the Liberty was steaming with the wind at the same speed that the wind was blowing), or considered it an Egyptian diversion aimed to mislead them. One point is beyond dispute: USS Liberty bore an eight-foot-high "5" and a four-foot-high "GTR" along either bow, clearly indicating her hull (or "pendant") number (AGTR-5), and had 18-inch-high letters spelling the vessel's name across the stern. These marking were not cursive Arabic script but in English.
Israeli aircraft markings: American survivors of the attack unanimously assert that the Israeli aircraft were unmarked. Israel never responded to this claim. It is unknown whether Liberty possessed any crew members trained in aircraft spotting, and the visibility of markings painted on high-speed combat aircraft from a ship hundreds of feet below is questionable in any event.

Jamming: An additional point on which Israel did not comment is the use of radio jamming. In the absence of reliable records, it is only left to speculate whether jamming (of Navy tactical and international maritime distress frequencies) did take place, or whether the deficiency in communications originated in the attack itself (i.e., loss of power and damage of antennas). Both Liberty and USS Saratoga radio operators reported hearing the distinctive buzzing sound usually indicative of radio frequency jamming. According to a book by Russell Warren Howe (see below), Captain McGonagle testified that the jamming of his transmissions had been on American, not Egyptian, frequencies, suggesting that the Israelis were aware of the nationality of the ship. The U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry concluded that Liberty experienced jamming (finding 47).
Probability of identification: Americans claim the thirteen closer flybys of the previous two days should have been sufficient for identification. Israel acknowledged the ship had been identified as American and neutral the previous day; however, it claims that at 11 a.m., the ship moved out of the status board. An hour later, when explosions were heard in El-Arish, Israel claims to have reacquired the ship without being aware that it was the same one that was flown over the day before.

Effort for identification: The American crew claims the attacking aircraft did not make identification runs over Liberty, but rather began to strafe immediately. One Israeli report claims several passes were made.
Speed of the vessel: According to Israeli accounts, they made (admittedly erroneous) measurements that indicated the ship was steaming at 30 knots (56 km/h). Supposedly, Israeli naval doctrine at the time required that a ship traveling at that speed must be presumed to be a warship. Liberty's speed was later recalculated to be 28 knots (52 km/h), although maximum sustained speed of the Liberty was only 17.5 knots (32 km/h), 21 knots (39 km/h) being attainable by overriding the engine governors. According to Body of Secrets, by James Bamford, and Liberty crewmen (including the Officer-of-the-Deck), the ship was steaming at 5 knots (9 km/h) at the time of the attack.

Visual communications: Joe Meadors, the signalman on bridge, states that "Immediately prior to the torpedo attack, he was on the Signal Bridge repeatedly sending 'USS Liberty U.S. Navy Ship' by flashing light to the torpedo boats." The Israeli boats claim to have read only the signal "AA", which was exactly the signal dispatched by the Egyptian destroyer Ibrahim Al-Awal when it was engaged by the Israeli navy eleven years earlier. Meadors claims he never sent "AA" (which would require him to identify himself as well); this disagreement may be settled by considering the fact that Liberty was unable to read signals sent from the boats.

Call for ID: Israel claims to have called the ship on radio several times without receiving an answer, while the American crew members deny ever receiving a call for identification. The crew's failure to receive any call for identification may be related to the Israeli jamming of radio frequencies. (Refer to Jamming above.)

Israeli ships' actions after the torpedo hit: The American crew claims that after Liberty had been torpedoed, Israeli boats circled the ship firing machine guns at descended (unmanned) life rafts and sailors on board the ship. Israelis claim they recognized the ship as American immediately after it was hit and ceased fire. The former point of view was expressed by many of the crew members, while the latter one is reinforced by the lack of mention of the action by the ship's captain. The former point of view has also been corroborated by Captain Ward Boston, senior counsel to the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry.[5]

Israeli offers of help: Reports differ regarding whether the Israeli boats offered help. The crew claims the torpedo boats simply withdrew, while the captain and the Israeli crew report that help was offered; the captain stated that he had asked the Israeli boats to stay away by the means of signal flags.

U.S. rescue attempts: At least two rescue attempts were launched from U.S. aircraft carriers nearby but were recalled, according to David Lewis, officer of the deck (OOD) during the attack. Lewis wrote and made an audio recording about a meeting 6th Fleet Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis requested in his cabins: "He told me that since I was the senior Liberty survivor on board he wanted to tell me in confidence what had actually transpired. He told me that upon receipt of our SOS, aircraft were launched to come to our assistance and then Washington was notified. He said that the Secretary of Defense (Robert McNamara) had ordered that the aircraft be returned to the carrier which was done. RADM Geis then said that he speculated that Washington may have suspected that the aircraft carried nuclear weapons so he put together another flight of conventional aircraft that had no capability of carrying nuclear weapons. These he launched to assist us and again notified Washington of his actions. Again McNamara ordered the aircraft recalled. He requested confirmation of the order being unable to believe that Washington would let us sink. This time President Johnson ordered the recall with the comment that he did not care if every man drowned and the ship sank, but that he would not embarrass his allies. This is, to the best of my ability, what I recall transpiring 30 years ago."

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

(edited to add 'From Wikipedia' to the appropriate spot.)

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 5:00 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

For a couple of major reasons, I cannot fathom why attacking a US naval vessel could possibly make any sense for the Isralis.

Primarily , I'd say the fog of war led to the Liberty ending up as a target. Iraq ( when fighting Iran ) hit a US vessel w/ an exocet missle. The US shot down an Iranian airliner, during the lead up to the Gulf War.

Secondly, pilots are generally told to disregard what flag a ship is flying, least it be a ruse by an enemy ship.

But what do I know ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 5:41 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

History Channel broadcast actual gun-camera footage from Israeli aircraft attacking USS Liberty. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing. US Govt and its masters needed a propaganda coup to trick the American sheeple into supporting a racist psychopathic criminal invasion and genocidal first strike perped by Israel against Egypt, in a massive land grab by European fake-Jews. LBJ was in control of USS Liberty from the start of that mission, breaking all the rules to block all defensive actions of the US fleet. Killing US troops this way is considered no different than killing them any other way in war, since they're just slaves and cannon fodder for the elitists. That's why it's called Uncle Scam.

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Dead in the Water - Israeli Sinking of the USS Liberty - During the Six-Day war, Israel attacked and nearly sank the USS Liberty, claiming mistaken identity. The truth turns out to be more sinister... By BBC News (similar to History Channel)
www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_cover-ups.htm

Actual flag flying on USS Liberty during the attack
www.USSLiberty.org

Quote:
"It is the business of a general to be quiet and thus insure secrecy. He must be able to mystify his officers and men by false reports and appearances, and thus keep them in total ignorance."
—Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Two words: Operation NORTHWOODS. James Bamford did not mention NORTHWOODS during his interview on History Channel, regarding USS Liberty. I asked Bamford on a radio interview, why he didn't mention NORTHWOODS. He replied because History Channel didn't ask him. So, if HC had asked him, he would have tied NORTHWOODS to USS Liberty, since he mentioned them both in his book, Body of Secrets, which first blew the lid off NORTHWOODS, in 2000.
www.bodyofsecrets.com

Quote:
"Operation NORTHWOODS may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. Operation Northwoods had called for nothing less than the launch of a secret campaign of terrorism within the United States in order to blame Castro and provoke a war with Cuba."
—James Bamford, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. Code named Operation NORTHWOODS, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro. America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation." The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years. The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military. Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job. Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy. "The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford."
—David Ruppe, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"We could blow up a drone (unmannded) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. The presense of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The US could follow with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existant crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation. We could develop a Communist Cuba terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Flordia cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. Use of MIG-type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping, and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type palnes would be useful. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce that fact. Hijacking attampts against US civil air and surface craft should be encouraged. It is possible to create an incident which would demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civilian airliner from the United States. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be subsituted for the actual civil aircraft and the passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rondevous. From the rondevous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly to an auxiliary airfield at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. Meanwhile the drone aircraft will continue to fly the filed flight plan. The drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency "MAY DAY" message stating it is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by the destruction of aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow IACO radio stations to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident. It is possible to create an incident that will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly Tail-end Charlie. While near the Cuban island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. This pilot would then fly at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who performed the mission under an alias would resume his proper identity. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared. A submarine or small craft would distribute F-101 parts, parachute, etc. The pilots retuning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found."
—Jewish Zionist General L.L. Lemnitzer, chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff at Pentagon, Memo to Secretary of War Robert McNamara - Subject: Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba - Operation NORTHWOODS, March 13, 1962 (declassifed 2000)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

LBJ was Jewish. His admirals have confessed they were eyewitness to LBJ ordering, "I want that goddamned ship sunk to the bottom of the ocean!" That's why the order came from the White House to recall the Navy fighters sent to rescue USS Liberty. They pulled the same fraud at Gulf of Tonkin (except there was no attack at all), to reverse JFK Sr's order to retreat from Vietnam.

US presidents, generals and world dictators performing "mock" human sacrifice to Jewish Molech/Lucifer/Satan at Bohemian Grove in Monte Rio, California. The Jews were constantly punished for worshipping Molech in the Christian Bible and Jewish Torah
www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/bohemian-grove
www.infowars.com/bg1.html
www.piratenews.org/video-archive.html

Search for "Molech" in King James Bible:
www.bible.com

Auraptor, either you are [* MOD ACTION: personal attacks and flaming are not accepted on these forums -- if this continues, threads will be moved wholesale to troll country and accounts may be suspended *]

Quote:
"I don't trust government. And neither should our citizens."
—US Senator Larry Craig (Republican), United States Senate, Committee on the Judiciary, "DOJ Oversight: Terrorism and Other Topics", testimony by US Attorney General John Ashcroft re President George Bush Jr.'s Executive Orders to "legalize torture" of US citizens and refusal to release that memo (felony Contempt of Congress), C-SPAN2, June 8, 2004

"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO (VERSION 2)
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 5:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

pirate - you're [* MOD ACTION: personal attacks and flaming are not accepted on these forums -- if this continues, threads will be moved wholesale to troll country and accounts may be suspended *]

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 6:20 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

I rest my case. Auraptor is [* MOD ACTION: personal attacks and flaming are not accepted on these forums -- if this continues, threads will be moved wholesale to troll country and accounts may be suspended *]

I haven't made you ANGRY, have I?!
-Mal

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 6:57 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Ya never know when those mind reading Gov't satilites are flying over your town.

Watch out raptor, ya better stay out of airports, or you might have to tell the truth to your Big Brother.

Quote:
Airline passengers face lie detector tests

Adrian Blomfield
London Telegraph
April 6 2006

Millions of airline passengers travelling through Russia will soon have to take a lie detector test as part of new security measures.

The technology, to be introduced at Moscow's Domodedovo airport as early as July, is intended to identify terrorists and drug smugglers. If successful, it could revolutionise check-ins.

Passengers will pick up the handset of a "truth verifier" machine while they are asked questions. Apparently the machine, developed by an Israeli company, can even establish whether answers come from the memory or the imagination.

At first, only passengers deemed suspicious by the FSB, the security service that succeeded the KGB, will take the test. But it will eventually encompass all passengers.

The machine asks four questions. The first is for full identity, while the second, unnerving in its Soviet-style abruptness, demands: "Have you ever lied to the authorities?" It then asks if the passenger is carrying weapons or narcotics.

To cut delays to a minimum, passengers will take the test after putting their shoes and baggage through the X-ray machines and before retrieving them. Officials insist that it will take between 30 seconds and a minute.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=NIEU4QILRI1VVQFIQMGCFFO
AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/04/06/wlie06.xml

Ha. That's funny. That's the same exact questions I ask cops on cross-examination in court for traffic ticket defense. GUARANTEED to freak 'em out. Too bad 30% of airport screeners in USA are illegal aliens. And too bad KGB General Primakov is paid $2-million/year by Jr Bush to run US Dept of Homeland Security, with Israeli citizen Michael Chertoff, Jr Bush's czar of Homeland Security born in Commie Czechoslovakia.

Jewish Commies Separated at Birth: Butchers of Russia & New Orleans
www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1746&forum
=3&post_id=26254

Bill Clinton-Blythe (Rockefeller) and Emperor Nero
Separated at Birth: Jewish Butchers of Christians at Waco/Crawford & Rome
www.stargods.org/ReincarnationOfTheSpirits.htm

Quote:
Israeli officials and Jewish organizations worldwide have asserted that materials claiming the Liberty incident was deliberate are often used as a pretext for anti-Semitic declarations and acts.

Semite.
1 a person regarded as descended from Shem
2 a member of any of the peoples speaking a Semitic language, including the Hebrews, ARABS, Assyrians, Phoenicians, etc.
-Webster's New World Dictionary

You can either watch TV or you can make TV.
-Joss the Boss

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO (VERSION 2)
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 9:03 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

I forgot to ask you not to reply, PirateNews. You have a way of turning people off of any conversation.

As a curiosity, is there anyone who is not a Jew?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 9:08 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Auraptor,

I have to agree. That's one of two things that has never been satisfactorily explained: How would the Israelis benefit from the destruction of a US Navy Ship? I can't figure a benefit.

The other thing that has never been satisfactorily explained is why the US recalled fighters sent to assist the Liberty. THAT is probably the most controversial part of this particular picture. I bet those classified documents would shed some light on it.

I suppose the answer is embarrasing, or else we'd know already.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 9:16 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Incidentally...

She was a tough duck, eh? Torpedoed, rocketed, machine gunned... still sailed out on her own steam.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, April 7, 2006 2:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

The bureaucracy of this Gov't is a source of unending amazement. How decissions are made, why and how folks escape responsibility ,regardless of who is in office, remains to me a mystery. And an unmitigated disaster.

I don't know why planes assisting the Liberty would be called off, other than to possibly keep an event from escalating into a full scale battle.

And fyi, I'm not a Jew.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, April 7, 2006 3:39 AM

FLETCH2

There are far far too many friendly fire incidents even at the best of times. During Gulf War 1 some American pilots attacked a British Army unit and killed half a dozen men. In war shit happens.

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Friday, April 7, 2006 5:30 AM

KUANGZHEDE

While friendly fire seems a likley result, there seems room to consider a planned attack. However, I trust the intention of such a planned attack, if true, would be more beneficial to the goals of the us and its allies then not. As for the Northwoods stuff as well, I expect my goverment to do messed up stuff to influence the mindless masses of this country by diversion and lies. This is not candyland we live in people. This is the world, limited land and resources, and everybody wants a piece. While the events occuring to the Liberty where unfortunate, chess is not played without making sacrifices. Though this may seem blunt, people need to understand that the world is messed up, people are greedy, and eutopia unattainable. I used to like to bitch about such things but realized at the end of the day, to what end would this effect anything. While the morality of firefly is lofty and heady, there is a damn good reason the alliance won. If one expects a goverment to do the morally right thing all the time and not make the hard decisions to manipulate the scenarios being played out in the world, then a goverment is useless. We vote these people in to represent us and make these decisions for right and for wrong, so we can go about doing what is truely important...living life, day to day, as best we can. You will hear people say that we attacked iraq for oil and now troops are dying and we have no exit strategy. But these are the same people who will not let us tap into the massive reserves off the east coast and the reserves in alaska do to enviromental concerns. "Does that make since to you?" I love america but that does not mean I need to know, approve of, or understand every decisions made to protect my freedoms and lifestyle. One would never be able to sleep and would go mad if they knew a tenth of the true horrors done by a goverment on an almost daily basis. Oh and history channel sensationalizes history into a nice 48 minute format that they sell on tape for ungodly amounts of money.

Crushing reality or ignorant bliss, the masses will always chose the latter. (religion)(the world)(firefly season 2)

Embrace and accept reality and ignorance becomes irrelavent. Try to alter peoples reality (even if that reality is based in ignorance), and you will be fought at ever turn by people unwilling to except it. There is no good and evil, right or wrong, it is all in the eye of the beholder, morality is in its fundamental context, a system of control.

So do what you want, know what you want, and be what you want, but realize that it is only an illsuion. These things where created for you by other people.

So all in all, you are screwed, the world is going to end one day, there is nothing you can do about it, light a cig, grab a cocktail, put on your blue sun t-shirt and enjoy the ride.

Kuang Zhe De

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Saturday, April 8, 2006 10:33 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I forgot to ask you not to reply, PirateNews. You have a way of turning people off of any conversation.

As a curiosity, is there anyone who is not a Jew?

--Anthony

Wow! I feel so all-powerful. I can actually turn off someone's brain by remote control. What a rush. Is that the same as remote viewing?

Too bad you're unable to [* MOD ACTION: personal attacks and flaming are not accepted on these forums -- if this continues, threads will be moved wholesale to troll country and accounts may be suspended *]

As for neoCONs running the White House and destroying USA, it truly is hard to find one who is not a non-Semitic Khazarian AshkeNAZI White-European fake Marranos "Jew".

For those of you who are still brain washed, mind controlled and dumbed down, the reason this issue is relevant and material, during this criminal trial for treason, is that the Junior Bush White House alleged "EVIL ARABS" attacked USA on 9/11/2001, so we must borrow trillions of dollars from the European "Jewish" banksters (that we can NEVER afford to pay back), to pay for a genocidal war that has already murdered 1.7-million Iraqis (many of them Christians) and 200,000 US soldiers, and maimed 500,000 US soldiers.

In legal terminology, this is called "opening the door", which authorizes cross-examination on this topic in any court of law (and court of public opinion), under Rules of Evidence.

Never mind that NONE of the alleged ARAB terrorist were listed as passengers on the airliners on 9/11. Never mind that ZERO videocams showed the alleged ARAB hijackers boarding ANY of the airliners on 9/11. Never mind that half the alleged hijackers ARE STILL ALIVE AND GIVING TV INTERVIEWS. Never mind that ARABS ARE SEMITES AND 90% OF "JEWS" ARE NOT SEMITES. Never mind that THE IRAQ WAR IS BY DEFINITION ANTI-SEMITISM. Never mind that 9/11 victims and survivors, police, firefighters, soldiers are suing the Bush Gang under RICO Act for perping the terrorist massacres on 9/11/2001. Never mind that most of the neoCONs in the White House are CURRENT ISRAELI CITIZENS, a racist nation that is currently waging war on USA with 1,000s of spies and terrorist bombers in USA. Never mind that Jr Bush promoted an Israeli citizen to run US Dept of Homeland Security. Never mind treason. Never mind that patriotic American "Jews" are saying all these facts in public, in newspapers, in magazines, on TV. Never mind that neoCON fake-Jews are destroying your future, while genociding innocent Arab-Semites and US citizens, and leaving the US borders undefended from 30-million to 100-million CRIMINAL alien invaders, whose official goal is to DESTROY USA.
www.september911surprise.com

www.votetoimpeach.org

WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T THINK!!! GO BACK TO SLEEEEEEEP..... ALL IS WEEEEEELLLLLL.......

I'm not going to be anybody's butt-monkey anymore!!!
-Xander, BTVS

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO (VERSION 2)
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Dead in the Water - Israeli Sinking of the USS Liberty - During the Six-Day war, Israel attacked and nearly sank the USS Liberty, claiming mistaken identity. The truth turns out to be more sinister... By BBC News (similar to History Channel)
www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_cover-ups.htm

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Saturday, April 8, 2006 11:29 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

[* MOD ACTION: personal attacks and flaming are not accepted on these forums -- if this continues, threads will be moved wholesale to troll country and accounts may be suspended *]

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Saturday, April 8, 2006 12:58 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

If YOU support Bush, who worships Molech at Bohemian Grove, YOU are going to burn in HELL!

Quote:
Moloch.
an ancient Phoenician and Ammonite god, to whom children were sacrificed by burning.
-Webster's New World Dictionary

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.
-Leviticus 20:1-5, Christian Bible KJV

And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
-1 Kings 11:6-7, Christian Bible KJV

Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction. But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it. And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
-Jeremiah 32:32-35, Christian Bible KJV

And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
-Leviticus 18:21-22, Christian Bible KJV

And the king sent, and they gathered unto him all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem. And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel. And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove. And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech. And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and returned to Jerusalem. Jehoahaz was twenty and three years old when he began to reign; and he reigned three months in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Hamutal, the daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah. And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD. And Jehoiakim gave the silver and the gold to Pharaoh; but he taxed the land to give the money according to the commandment of Pharaoh: he exacted the silver and the gold of the people of the land, of every one according to his taxation, to give it unto Pharaohnechoh. Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign; And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done.
-2 Kings 23:1-37

Note how it's the JEWS worshipping Molech in JERUSALEM... Just like Jews worship Molech in Bohemian Grove homosexual nudist colony and presidential compound. My own Jewish cousin was invited as a guest to Bohemian Grove. Yes, BG is Jewish. Do you RepubliCONs really like the idea of Jew Bill Clinton-Blythe III (Rockefeller) worshipping Molech at BG, then genociding the Christians at Waco, and genociding feds in OK City? And you sheeple believe these pathological liars are "Christians", when they attend Jewish synogogues and recite the Kol Nidre prayer that legalized lying and fraud by Jews against the Goyim? SUCKERS!

Kaylee: Look they've got boy whores. How thoughtful.
Inara: They're fags, sweetie.

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO (VERSION 2)
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Saturday, April 8, 2006 2:00 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

PirateNews, really...

You can't just throw out a bunch of race terms like the pellets of a shotgun. They mean nothing to me, most especially since you seem to use different definitions for them than the rest of the world. Work on focus and communication skills, man.

This is what your posts look like to me:

"As for neoCONs running the White House and destroying USA, it truly is hard to find one who is not a non-Garlitic Lemon LollipopHORSERADISH White-European fake Orange "Cucumber"."

As for turning off someone's brain... Well, you can do that with a firearm or a well placed kick. But PirateNews, you regularly turn off people's interest in intelligent discourse. Or rather, make them believe that intelligent discourse isn't possible with you.

My dog may hold the answers to the universe, but all he can do is bark.

You may have the ultimate truth, PirateNews, but if you can't say anything but Horseradish Garlic Lollipop Lemon Cucumber, then you're not going to get the message through.

Now, maybe you don't want to be understood. If so, why are you still talking?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, April 9, 2006 11:05 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

[* MOD ACTION: personal attacks and flaming are not accepted on these forums -- if this continues, threads will be moved wholesale to troll country and accounts may be suspended *]

did I touch a nerve?

Do you still feel empowered?

How does it feel to be treated in the same way that you treat others?

Are you beating your little fists on the keyboard? (Im still trying to get the sacrificial blood off of mine).

Maybe you should just come over to the dark side while there is still time.

Remember that by your own logic the Illuminati conspiracy are planning to genocide 90%+ of the worlds population. And yet also by your own logic everyone in the world except you is a Jew.

Can you see where this is going?

ANTHONY T i'm realy sorry to have hijacked your thread but PN deserves it.

"You cant stop the Pigswill"

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