REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

American Drug Policy

POSTED BY: DEEPGIRL187
UPDATED: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:39
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Sunday, December 9, 2007 8:59 AM

DEEPGIRL187


I'm going to post this here in the hope that a large-scale fued won't break out (of course, saying that is like saying the Captain won't wear suspenders tomorrow; just not logical ).

My intent is to get some more info on US drug policy, from all sides of the debate. I'm writing a final paper about it, and I thought it wouldn't hurt (though it probably will) to get some info from disparate sources.

Opinions are welcome (not like I could stop anyone here from giving them), but my hope is to maybe get links to websites with more information. All help is appreaciated (she says apprehensively).

*************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."


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Sunday, December 9, 2007 9:21 AM

SERGEANTX


I'd suggest you track down the drug war episode of Penn & Teller's "Bullshit!". They do a great job clarifying the insanity of the whole concept.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 9:37 AM

CHRISISALL


Drug companies are in bed with the government, which is why when one wanted to test a new Hep-B vaccine on someone (in the late seventies), the Gov't facilitated a trip to Africa to test it on unwitting innocent villagers. Forget the fantasies of green-tree monkeys suddenly spreading it after centuries of not, HIV was created by accident there by our own dabbling. And if it gets out officially, the reparations and fallout would be frightening.
Meanwhile, here at home, there was recently a fight to make vitamins available only by prescription,
http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Lcodex.htm
http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2005/01/12/vitamins_and_nutritional
_supplements_to.htm

...luckily the drug companies only have so much power, even if they feel like Gods.

Leash the FDA Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 9:43 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'm 100% fully for decrminalizing marijuana, at the very least for personal use. While I have no intention of smoking pot, but it's a matter of rights and an individual's freedom of choice. To allow one type of plant leaf to be smoked, even to the point of Federal subsidies, and to outlaw another plant leaf, is pure hypocricy.

LegalizeItRaptor

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 9:47 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm 100% fully for decrminalizing marijuana, at the very least for personal use. I have no intention of personally smoking pot, but it's a matter of rights and an individual's freedom. To allow one type of plant leave to be smoked, even to the point of Federal subsidies, and to outlaw another plant leaf, is pure hypocricy.

LegalizeItRaptor


I'll agree with this- plus, good for tax revenues.

Dude, Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 9:53 AM

LEADB


10 years ago, I would have argued vehemently that we needed to crack down on illegal drugs; however, I'm getting much more comfortable with legalization and managing more like we do the other all time favorite US drug, alcohol.

Re: Prescription drugs; I think we should go to a 'single payer' system.

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 10:05 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by leadb:
I'm getting much more comfortable with legalization and managing more like we do the other all time favorite US drug, alcohol.


Didn't they try an experiment a while back to see what would happen if alcohol was removed entirely from American consumption? I believe many died from lead poisoning as a result....

Untouchableisall

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 11:33 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Yeah, you really wanna go dig into the Temperance Movement and Prohibition and it's justifications and subsequent failures... as a historical background if naught else, because some part of Prohibition II: The War on (some)Drugs even today has some quasi-religious roots to it.

I am of the belief that you should be able to do anything you please, to YOURSELF, since you are your own property - and to consider your person, your body, anything else is about as reprehensible a concept as I can possibly imagine.

Like Government, our Drug Policy is a problem masquerading as it's own solution - wasn't all that long ago you could buy opiates right over the counter for your headache or toothache, and we did not have any large scale "drug problems" and the related crime and savagery we do now.

Our very policy created, and continues to cause, the problems it was theoretically intended to prevent and deter - much like solving a bleeding head wound by applying a tourniquet to the neck, it was a counterproductive process from it's very inception.

And it continues to be.

As far as taxes go, for them that brought it up, so long as they are reasonable and fair, people will have no problem with it - but when it becomes rabid exploitation, as it has with tobacco now, it opens up the same exact can of worms over the tax stamp as simple Prohibition would do - we're already seeing a LOT of interstate and cross border cigarette smuggling, with the related benefits and expansion of organized crime, and this will only continue as the Gov squeezes harder.

And I know it's kind of a weird thing to ask, but I am curious enough to be interested whether or not I might agree with the conclusions....

Would you care to post the finished piece for us ?

I'd be right interested, to be honest.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 1:41 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And I know it's kind of a weird thing to ask, but I am curious enough to be interested whether or not I might agree with the conclusions....

Would you care to post the finished piece for us ?

I'd be right interested, to be honest.

-Frem



Sure, Frem. Wouldn't mind at all. Though I'll forewarn folks that this is my first time writing a piece of this nature, so I'm sure I'll have a few flaws, factually wise. But it'll be great (not to mention intimidating) to have everyone's opinion on it.

*************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 1:47 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
But it'll be great (not to mention intimidating) to have everyone's opinion on it.


Don't use any of that stuff about us creating HIV like that- peeps git crazy about that subject, mad even- they'll deny, demand proof from government sources, and give you an F. So steer clear of that, I included it for personal informational purposes only.

Free the info Chrisisall

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 2:26 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Don't use any of that stuff about us creating HIV like that- peeps git crazy about that subject, mad even- they'll deny, demand proof from government sources, and give you an F. So steer clear of that, I included it for personal informational purposes only.

Free the info Chrisisall



I won't, don't worry. My focus is how the drug war is mainly used for the political and financial gain of the gov't.

*************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 7:41 PM

FREMDFIRMA


That I can maybe help you with, provided I don't have to pull a double tomorrow.

Illegal drugs only, or should I throw in some of the rather detailed abuses for personal gain of Gov anti-tobacco campaign funds too ?

You came to the right place for THIS kind of info, provided I have time to get it to ya...

-F

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 8:42 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


here's one that sounds logical and true, but I can't cite sources for it.
Marijuana was criminalized right before World War 2, for racist reasons. It was legal before that, grown by farmers and grew wild ( hence the name weed.) and used as a source of fiber for rope.
In the 30's , it was perceived as a drug used by poor, illegal Mexican workers who couldn't afford bootleg booze. So possession was made a crime, on the theory that the cops could stop a Mexican, search him, find MJ on him , and either jail or deport him.

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 11:53 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Don't use any of that stuff about us creating HIV like that- peeps git crazy about that subject, mad even- they'll deny, demand proof from government sources, and give you an F. So steer clear of that, I included it for personal informational purposes only.

Not wanting to derail the thread to much, but I do have a problem with your theory. HIV is extremely similar to simian viruses, just as H5N1 or SAARS are similar to Avian Flu strains. It seems very likely that HIV is a primate virus that jumped the modest species gap to Humans, why this didn't happen sooner is a different question. Why didn't Avian Flu cause a pandemic prior to 1918? The Spanish Flu (which killed more people than the First World War) jumped the species gap and then went on to kill so many due to economic and social reasons. Never before had there been such a mass movement of people in the unsanitary conditions forced by the War; Millions on the march and then returning home spread the virus, and the economic depression inherent with a major war made treatment difficult. The First World War allowed the Spanish Flu to jump from birds to Humans and cause a mass pandemic, and these conditions had never existed before.

I'd posit that a similar situation happened in Africa. I suspect you'll probably find that HIV has gone from primates to humans before, but Africa prior to European Colonialism was a very different place to the Africa we see today, and those differences prevented a wide ranging pandemic keeping an outbreak strictly local. HIV isn’t a particularly easy virus to catch, it’s not airborne, it doesn’t last long out side the body, the only way to get it is swapping bodily fluids, and even then it’s not a certainty. Previous outbreaks probably claimed a small group, not even an entire tribe, before it sputtered out. I'd suggest that the apparent unprecedented spread of HIV is to do with social changes in Africa, rather than its sudden appearance out of nowhere. Beyond that, who knows how many Africans wasted away under the spectre of AIDS, before the first Westerners started getting sick and the world took notice?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, December 10, 2007 3:19 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
That I can maybe help you with, provided I don't have to pull a double tomorrow.

Illegal drugs only, or should I throw in some of the rather detailed abuses for personal gain of Gov anti-tobacco campaign funds too ?

You came to the right place for THIS kind of info, provided I have time to get it to ya...

-F



Both would be welcome, Frem. Thanks a lot for the help.

*************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Monday, December 10, 2007 4:14 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I've seen Reefer Madness. It is very clear from that documentary that if you smoke one joint you will go insane pretty fast. You also may be able to play the piano really, really fast.

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Monday, December 10, 2007 4:55 AM

FREMDFIRMA


I have tried to limit these to sources appropriate for the work, so that you'll have proper references to cite and not get flamed for "conspiracy theory" in spite of the fact that many of those places do have more accurate and updated information relative to the topic oft-times.

Profiteers and Prohibition
http://www.cfdp.ca/barbados98.htm

Getting Real About the Economics of Cocaine
http://alternet.org/drugreporter/65679/

Treating Doctors as Drug Dealers: The DEA's War on Prescription Painkillers
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3778

The War in Afghanistan: Drugs, Money Laundering and the Banking System
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ200
61017&articleId=3516


The Contras, Cocaine, and Covert Operations
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm

Funding Sources for Alcohol & Drug Abuse Research & Other Projects
http://depts.washington.edu/adai/grants/
(seen as almost "Free Money" cause they will without question finance the most ludicrous things, as long as they are at least tenously connected to drug abuse prevention)

POLICING FOR PROFIT: THE DRUG WAR'S HIDDEN ECONOMIC AGENDA
http://www.fear.org/chicago.html

Reining in Forfeiture: Common Sense in the war on drugs
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/forfeiture
.html


Executive Privateers: A Discussion on Why the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act Will Not Significantly Reform the Practice of Forfeiture
http://www.fear.org/hadaway.html

ACLU: Police Practices : Asset Forfeiture.
http://www.aclu.org/police/forfeit/index.html

Those should be good for a general overview, let me know if you need more.

Two item's I will mention in passing worth a look as well.

#1 - Big Pharma has some level of collusion in the whole anti-smoking agenda as a method of selling nicotene patches (which have some nasty side effects, mind you) with programs designed to fail, thus simply transferring the addiction from one product to another.

#2 - Detroit.
It doesn't make the news so much, but I see it at work a lot... do NOT drive a nice car down cass corridor, the cops.. if they are so inclined, will immediately pounce on and seize your vehicle under suspicion of drug trafficking, impound it (without even necessarily charging YOU for any crime) and then file asset forfeiture for it, and they usually win because defending against that is more expensive than replacing the vehicle.

I see at least two of these a week, and it's become a point of contention between the DPD and that Federal Oversight Task Force, which is still here, at our tax expense, trying to pound the DPD into acting like cops instead of the mafia...

And once seized, they're usually sent to "auction" at some backwater, undisclosed location for "security purposes" with only the police to bid on it, usually winding up in the hands of one of the officers in question or his buddies for a mere pittance.

Legalized theft, is what it is... "Hey, nice car, let's TAKE it!" - to be blunt.


Anything else you need, lemme know.

-Frem

PS - IRL, I actually charge folk a modest fee for such research, as it's time consuming to wade through all the corpo-shill crap to get real data, but for a local and a fellow browncoat, never!

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Monday, December 10, 2007 5:02 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Jong, that flick was actually sponsored in part by the father of journalistic propaganda, William Randolph Hearst - who, having a financial stake in wood pulp and paper mills, feeling somewhat threatened by a new process that promised to make hemp paper cheaper and more widely available, sought to vilify it as sharply and quickly as possible.

And this is a guy good enough at swinging public opinion that he gave us an un-necessary and wasteful, futile war based on a lie made out of whole cloth.
"Remember the Maine!" My ass...

Like any hysterically-bad propaganda flick, Reefer Madness is best taken as an unintentional comedy.

-F

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Monday, December 10, 2007 5:22 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
PS - IRL, I actually charge folk a modest fee for such research, as it's time consuming to wade through all the corpo-shill crap to get real data, but for a local and a fellow browncoat, never!



Frem, you're a saint. This stuff will really come in handy.

*************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Monday, December 10, 2007 5:45 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
HIV is extremely similar to simian viruses, just as H5N1 or SAARS are similar to Avian Flu strains. It seems very likely that HIV is a primate virus that jumped the modest species gap to Humans, why this didn't happen sooner is a different question.

Quote:

The most likely route of transmission of HIV-1 to humans involves contact with the blood of chimps that are often hunted for bushmeat in Africa.


Go ahead- blame it in the black man, oppressor.

Chrisisall

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:06 AM

SERGEANTX


The broader issue surrounding drug legalization is the notion of personal responsibility. As much as it pains me to acknowledge, some people look to the law for their cues on good and bad (i.e. - if it's legal it's good, and if it's bad it damned well ought to be illegal.) That's the sort of attitude that has driven prohibition in the first place and it's what we're up against if we hope to change things.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:08 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Go ahead- blame it in the black man, oppressor.

Heh, though a significant portion of my blame goes to the European colonial powers and their modern day replacements. The black man may be contracting it through Bush meat, but the White man setup the poor socialogical enviroment enabling it to spread.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:12 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
The black man may be contracting it through Bush meat, but the White man setup the poor socialogical enviroment enabling it to spread.


That's a little better, melanin-challenged one.

Notthemanisall

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:18 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
That's a little better, melanin-challenged one.

Its also what I said (or at least aluded too) in my initial post



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:27 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Its also what I said (or at least aluded too) in my initial post


We don't read here; we REACT!!!!

Chrisisall

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:40 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Hope it does - as for the other...

To quote Richard B Riddick from Pitch Black: Dark Fury.
"I been called a lot of things in my day... that ain't one of em."

-F

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Monday, December 10, 2007 3:07 PM

LEADB


St. Frem. I like it.

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Monday, December 10, 2007 3:57 PM

SERGEANTX


I gotta say, it was nice to hear some good news from the Supremes today. Mandatory minimum sentencing took a pretty good hit and that's a good thing in my book. Getting rid of them, that is.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, December 10, 2007 5:29 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Meh, Chris, if you ever plan to try Canonizing me, a laughable concept given the life I have lived, just make sure ya stick me next to Gabriel Possenti.. heh heh.

Honestly tho, if Anarchism has a patron saint, it'd be Peter Kropotkin.

It sure as hell would not be me.

A saint, or a decent, empathetic, humane person, would be mentally and emotionally crushed and destroyed in under a month of dealing with the kind of issues I do, at the point-blank range which I choose to engage it at... I know, having seen it time and time again as they burn out, flake out, or just implode - did you know police who are given this work are excised from the rest of the force, given special considerations, and then treated for all intents and purposes as a departmental suicide ?

And why ? because it *will* poison and destroy them, it's only a matter of time.
http://www.mainecaan.usm.maine.edu/2001%20Fall/Burnout.htm

Some evils... are best fought with another kind of evil, and while folks like Shelby Earnshaw and Alice Miller do wonders on the public, aboveboard end of things - but when you send someone down the rabbit hole to confront things so ugly that most folk can not, will not, even acknowledge their existence... you'd best make sure to send someone nasty enough in other ways that their own wickedness shields them from being so sandbagged by horror that they cannot function effectively.

Some have accused me of simply selecting a target for that wickedness that no sane person would complain about it being landed on in order to feed it fully, without drawing societies ire.

Sorry for the rant, but it kind rubs me wrong when folks don't quite get that I can do what I do.. cause I am at heart almost as nasty as they are, just in different ways.


-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:01 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Drug policy in the US is such that if you can grow it on your own and nobody can make money on it, it is illegal.

Anything that has been made in a lab and wasn't tested beforehand is fair game though as long as there is enough money to be made on it to still pay the shareholders after all of the lawsuits.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, December 10, 2007 6:59 PM

LEADB


Frem "Sorry for the rant, but it kind rubs me wrong when folks don't quite get that I can do what I do.. cause I am at heart almost as nasty as they are, just in different ways."

Hmmm, I was hoping for a chuckle. I will concede that it requires a rather unusual definition of St. for you to qualify, if that helps any In any event, I'll surely excuse the rant.


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Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:16 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Meh, Chris, if you ever plan to try Canonizing me, a laughable concept given the life I have lived, just make sure ya stick me next to Gabriel Possenti.. heh heh.


All just folk here, Frem.

Some just smartern' others Chrisisall

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Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So since we all agreet that our current "war on drugs" is pretty effed up, what do you think a rational drug policy would be?

First step: legalizing marijuana.

Okay. What next?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:05 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Making all drugs legal for those over 21. (Before then the brain is still wiring itself up, not a process one would wish to alter.) HOWEVER, making them scrip only and sold at cost in drab government pharmacies. It would take all the profit - and therefore glamour - out of the 'illegal' drug trade.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:09 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Okay. What next?


How about not giving more jail time to folks with a drug problem than to folks that physically harm others? Make 'em clean highways and work at soup kitchens? Jail should be for dangerous peeps IMO.

Not good for the Correctional Industrial Complex though Chrisisall

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Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:18 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Making all drugs legal for those over 21. (Before then the brain is still wiring itself up, not a process one would wish to alter.) HOWEVER, making them scrip only and sold at cost in drab government pharmacies. It would take all the profit - and therefore glamour - out of the 'illegal' drug trade.

***************************************************************




I have always wanted to try Cocaine and Heroin but they've always been so expensive. Plus, there's the chance that I might get busted. Any speculation on how much I could expect to pay in a week for legal Heroin, because if its competitive with my current beer budget I might be for this legalisation thing.


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Tuesday, December 11, 2007 2:50 PM

LEADB


Take the crime driven economic issues out of it, it should be pretty cheap.

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Tuesday, December 11, 2007 3:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The only problem I have with legalized drugs is that SOME people are extra-sensitive to certain drugs (besides children, who're extra sensitive to a lot of things). Take nicotine for example. Most people have an one gene that make them insensitive to nicotine, and one gene that makes them sensitive. Some have both "sensitive receptor" genes and zing!, do they get hooked! And some folks have two non-sensitive receptor genes and these folks (called "chippers") never get hooked.

Also, I suspect that "the dose makes the drug". If you chewed coca leaves all you'd get is a mild buzz. Snort it, and you get higher'n a kite. Smoke it, and you're history. And for SOME folks that first rush is so powerful they spend the rest of their lives trying to reproduce that first high.

So if we were to legalize drugs, should there be some kind of concentration limit, so that the first try isn't the start or a lifelong problem? And then wouldn't you have the same problem with legalized "street drugs" as you do with "hillbilly heroin"? (People willing to supply you with more of, or stronger, than your doctor allows?)

Also, how does one get an Rx to begin with?

One of the things I just heard is that people often self-medicate for problems that they already have: meth for bipolar, alcohol for anxiety, etc. So wouldn't your doctor just RX for a pharma drug?

I like the idea, but I think it needs to be fleshed out.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:10 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
First step: legalizing marijuana.

Okay. What next?

Legalize the rest.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D., founder of homeopathy

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Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:23 AM

DEEPGIRL187


I promised I'd post my finished paper as soon as I was done, so here it is. I'm liking to my LJ so as not to bog things down. Please go easy.

http://deepgirl187.livejournal.com/672.html

And by the way Frem, I hope I didn't offend with the saint comment. But I am really appreciative for the info.

****************************************************



"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:37 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I promised I'd post my finished paper as soon as I was done, so here it is.

You'd better see an "A" from that- it was bursting with info, yet succinct and well written.
Be proud.

Impressed Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:37 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Very nice paper.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, December 12, 2007 12:16 PM

FREMDFIRMA


*standing ovation*

Well Done!

And no, you didn't offend...
I just took it a little badly and got snappish, my apologies for that, it's a bit of a sore spot with me, is all.

You did good, Kiddo

-F

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Wednesday, December 12, 2007 12:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey signy... why is it any of yours or my business if somebody gets high. Worry about you and your own and don't worry about playing nanny to everyone else.

If the government would stop supporting the wretches, and parents took an active role in their kids lives, I don't suppose people would be drawn to the drugs in the first place if there was nothing to fall back on when you hit bottom.

If you legalize it, then we stop funding groups which don't like us none too much and our costs as a nation drop significantly when we're not jailing people for having an ounce of weed and by cutting our law enforcement staff, particularly on the federal level, by at least a third.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, December 12, 2007 12:46 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


SignyM

I don't have all the details worked out and you asked some tough questions. Since at the moment I'm very VERY busy I'll have to reply later. If I forget, could you bump this up from time to time ? THANKS !

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:06 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
The only problem I have with legalized drugs is that SOME people are extra-sensitive to certain drugs (besides children, who're extra sensitive to a lot of things).




This is very true but one of the worst, alcohol is already legal. I know a guy who was a heroin addict for years and it turns out that kicking the heroin habit was the worst thing he ever did. He substituted alcohol and soon found that it takes a whole lot more alcohol to satisfy an addictive personality than it does heroin. Last I heard he was near death at 50. One thing is for sure, legalization will reduce the number of people in the gene pool with an addictive personality.

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Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:45 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Aww gee, guys.

****************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Monday, December 17, 2007 10:39 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Bump for me to get to this later.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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