REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A Layman's Understanding of Debt

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 15:52
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Monday, November 17, 2008 3:20 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by out2theblack:
I expect that Hero knows how to take the joke , but if he doesn't , I'm sure I'll hear from him about it...


You made a joke? I wondered what that "THUD" sound was coming from my computer the other day...

H

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Monday, November 17, 2008 3:24 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by out2theblack:
Congress may NOT Lawfully 'delegate' , abdicate , or abrogate , its Constitutional Duties...


Acually they can exercise their power as they see fit. Its in the Elastic Clause, thats the clause that says they can do what needs to be done when it comes to their powers.

H

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Monday, November 17, 2008 5:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

producing greater total income from tax revenue. Consider Reaganomics a template for this. Unfortunately, often the political landscape changes before the full benefits are realized. Another party comes into control riding the coattails of the fiscal conservatives
Yes, please do. Because Reagan built up a deficit higher than all previous Presidents combined. The only other avid practitioner or Reaganomics was Bush II, and he managed to outdo Reagan in terms of deficit. So Reaganonmics has been tried twice, each time over eight years, and failed both times AFA Federal Revenues. (And don't forget that Reagan's "tax reforms" led to the middle class paying a higher percentage in taxes bc he eliminated many deductions.)



---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Monday, November 17, 2008 8:11 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:


...Acually they can exercise their power as they see fit. Its in the Elastic Clause, thats the clause that says they can do what needs to be done when it comes to their powers.

H



Elastic clause ?

Oh yeah , that's the one on Barney Frank's underwear...'Fruit of the Loon'...

Leastways , that's what Hank Paulson said...

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Monday, November 17, 2008 10:18 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


OTB

"As always , You strain your gnats while gulping the camel...
Rue , you belong at the zoo...They'll put you in with the primates , where you may feel free to nit-pick..."

And you replied, so what does that make you ?

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Monday, November 17, 2008 10:19 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


OTB

"What is Lawful Money ?
According to the Constitution , it's Gold and Silver COIN !"

Where does it say that in the constitution ? Please, point it out to me.

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Monday, November 17, 2008 10:30 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


OTB

"the Constitution of the resulting nation went to significant lengths to establish a national currency which was backed by tangible assets"
Not true. There is NO requirement in the constitution that that says the federal government must back its currency with tangible assets of any kind.

"In the united States of America, paper money is illegal and unconstitutional. Article 1, Section 10, of the Constitution for the United States of America states, in part: “No State shall.. make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in payment of Debts.”"
Refers to STATES. You DO know the difference between states and the federal government, don't you ?

"Money is in fact defined as: ... (1870, page 192)"
And apparently no one has written any other definition either before, at the time, or since.

"More recent Federal Reserve Notes state: “This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private” Please note that there is no period at the end of the statement, suggesting that perhaps the statement is not complete ..."
Speaking of straining at gnats.

And the rest is so much fluff, because it's based on the specious notion that only gold and silver are legal NATIONAL money.

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Monday, November 17, 2008 10:36 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Liberals proclaim that during economic growth the gains should be diverted to increasing social spending rather than downpaying the debt."

Then why is it that whenever the democrats are in charge government debt goes down ? This statement seems to be an example of an ideologically-based 'tude, rather than a fact-based thought.

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Monday, November 17, 2008 10:46 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Elastic clause ?
Oh yeah , that's the one on Barney Frank's underwear...'Fruit of the Loon'...
Leastways , that's what Hank Paulson said..."

And once again OTB demonstrates his preference for facts over snark, and his stellar legal acumen.

HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . . . . . .

Yeah, that'll be the day.

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Monday, November 17, 2008 6:41 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
OTB

"As always , You strain your gnats while gulping the camel...
Rue , you belong at the zoo...They'll put you in with the primates , where you may feel free to nit-pick..."

And you replied, so what does that make you ?





The Zoo Keeper...


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Monday, November 17, 2008 6:49 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
OTB

"the Constitution of the resulting nation went to significant lengths to establish a national currency which was backed by tangible assets"
Not true. There is NO requirement in the constitution that that says the federal government must back its currency with tangible assets of any kind.

"In the united States of America, paper money is illegal and unconstitutional. Article 1, Section 10, of the Constitution for the United States of America states, in part: “No State shall.. make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in payment of Debts.”"
Refers to STATES. You DO know the difference between states and the federal government, don't you ?


...And the rest is so much fluff, because it's based on the specious notion that only gold and silver are legal NATIONAL money.






You are legally fallacious...

It's your right to remain ignorant...

'Specious' notion ? That's some kind of Freudian slip on your part :

SPECIE--

" Coin of the precious metals , of a certain weight and fineness , and bearing the stamp of the government , denoting its value as currency . Metallic money ; e.g. gold or silver coins ."
BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY , 5th Edition .


Fortunately you remain unable to convince anyone but yourself , and an occasional transient sycophant...

States' rights are legally superior to those of the Federal government , inasmuch as , if there were no States , then the Federal government would be unable to derive any just powers from the consent of the governed , and the Constitution itself reveals that the powers not specifically Allowed to the Federal government are " RESERVED to the States..."

“ The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution , nor prohibited by it
to the States , are reserved to the States respectively , or to the people.

Now , in the interest of being ironical , a quote from that tool , Wilson :

“ Liberty has never come from government. Liberty has always come from the subjects
of government. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a
history of limitations of government power, not the increase of it.” --Woodrow Wilson , September 9, 1912.

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Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:38 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Consumer Price Decline Prompts Fear of Deflation
By JACK HEALY 4:52 PM ET
Consumer prices fell in October by 1 percent, the largest drop in the history of the survey, raising the specter of deflation.


As SignyM so succinctly stated, economic collapse can either be inflationary or deflationary.

If indeed we are in for a deflationary collapse (due to what SignyM noticed is the reluctance of the government to put more dollars in the hands of people) this would NOT be the time to buy gold. It would quickly lose value to currency.

BTW - Frem - the one thing I've noticed about goods like gold and gems is that they're only good for trading outside of the country. As an example - 'blood diamonds' are never used within country as items of trade. Rather they are used to trade with people outside of the country for arms and services.


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Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:40 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"'Specious' notion ? That's some kind of Freudian slip on your part "

And once again OTB demonstrates a lack of understanding of basic English.

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Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:52 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

BTW - Frem - the one thing I've noticed about goods like gold and gems is that they're only good for trading outside of the country. As an example - 'blood diamonds' are never used within country as items of trade. Rather they are used to trade with people outside of the country for arms and services.

Mostly true, not completely, but mostly - I do a sort of triangle run with them via a broker I trust for reasons I shall leave unsaid, and clout the currency exchange for an additional profit boost when possible.

In country, Silver is more immediately useful, as are trade goods, tools, ammo, little bit of this, little bit of that, kinda like The Finn from william gibsons books, favor trading included.

I picked my investments in that fashion for minimum bulk, steady increase in value, and portability should things ever go to hell in a handbasket.

My real moneymaker in a total fiasco though, would be mechanical know how, skills pay bills, no matter what exchange you happen to be using, and I can make barrel hoops just as well as I can repair appliances or small engines - outside of really specialised knowledge a blown tech base couldn't support anyhow, I'll always be ok.

It's everyone ELSE I worry about, to be honest with it.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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