Viva Las Vegas by Bytemite

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Viva Las Vegas

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Thursday, March 7, 2024 08:15
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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:34 AM

I probably haven't been around long enough to go off on one of my diatribes on how other states keep stealing Utah resources. California is one perpetrator, but that's more of a population thing than anything they can help.

But Las Vegas... I could go on for some time about waste associated with it, the impracticality of it's location, and that's not even getting INTO how it's a goddamn boil upon the soul of humankind.

But this is just yet another way Las Vegas has pissed me off, and if the guestimates about the dust is accurate, this could have wide-reaching consequences.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13304723

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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:55 PM

MANGOLO

I saw a documentary recently called HOME by Yann Arthus-Bertrand. (It is free and online and it is beautiful to watch)

One of the lines that struck with me was about the global crisis for drinkable water.

In Rajasthan, India, people have to get their water by hand from ever deepening wells. They survive on less than 2 liters of water per person per day.

In Las Vegas, water is used at a rate of 8000 liters of water per person per day.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=86085840444

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:57 AM

PIRATECAT

Yeh but look how green those golf courses are. And every subdivision has beautiful water falls. Then all them lights at night just magnificent. But they are trying to go green. In every hotel room there is card to tell you to conserve as you gaze upon the strip all lit up. Utah is mormon country so no body cares.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:54 AM

DREAMTROVE

Byte,

No, by all means DON'T give California a free pass. Yes, I know plenty of people in CA, so surfer 'coats just chill and listen:

The govt of CA has been able to do what the Saudis do for 20 years now, and just has bickered about it rather than do anything. NO there would be no energy cost nor environmental damage to desalinate the water and run it up from the ocean, because this is done all over the world. The sun provides ample heat to evaporate water and recondense it without salt, energy which can be focused and water which can be captured. It's simple cheaper to take that water from the rocky mountain states.

Now, per Las Vegas: This is a testament to American greed and stupidity. (New Orleans also comes to mind. A city whose destroy below-see level residential neighborhoods were built on a huge cash cow scheme, rampantly destroying the environment, and done LONG AFTER people knew what would happen.)

Now this Las Vegas thing is bogus for so many reasons, and you can kill it: (If californian for a lazy america can kill desalination)

Quote:
The Southern Nevada Water Authority wants to build a 300-mile pipeline that would siphon 50,000 to 60,000 acre-feet from the valley to support current and anticipated growth in Las Vegas

1. There will be no growth. This is yet another prediction that requires no real thought: In a depression, there will be no growth, not anywhere, even locally. Everything will decline. Some things will totally collapse.

I could give a lot of economic analyses that state this is a depression, but one fairly safe one is the marked is sitting at less than half its high. I would call it at least a recession when the market was off of the high for more than a year, but when it's off by more than 50% for 9 years, that's a depression.

Politicians lie for business. All you need to do is to call them on it, and make it political suicide for anyone in either state to go through with this.

2. If they're going to run a 300 mi pipleline then WTF? Las Vegas isn't even 300 miles from the sea! The could run that pipeline from the ocean, get their water and not effect anyone, and that water is going to evaporate over 300 mi. Yeah, I know, people are going to nitpick this suggestion, but trust me, this works. I'd design it myself.

Quote:
Dust storms out of Nevada, said Brian Moench, president of Utah Physicians for a Healthy Environment, would carry millions of tons of toxic substances, including mercury, an asbestoslike substance called erionite, radioactive particles left from 900 nuclear tests conducted in Nevada and fungus spores that cause valley fever, a potentially lethal infection spreading across the desert Southwest.

Want to kill a project like this? Use fear. No one votes for sympathy. If the people of Las Vegas think that the Utah water is already contaminated and radioaction, they're not going to be too happy with the plan either.

I'm not saying "lie" I'm saying "use what you can find. Fear works.

Check this out:

Yes, that's acid run off in a river in West Virginia.

Here's a double mouthed fish.

These things aren't really connected. I have another one showing the drainage basin.

So West Virginia has everyone convinced that the polution is so bad that no one could survive in WV, without ever saying so. Reality, WV is one of the safest places to live, environmentally speaking. But they want the strip mining to stop.
Their real concern:

But all this does is destroy property values in WV: The problem is that no one has been able to show that this problem effects anyone else.

Now, back to Utah. You can find your own two-mouthed two-headed fish. This is a birthing defect in fishes due to the nature of fish eggs, it doesn't indicate anything at all. You can undoubtedly find things that people might not want in their drinking water. You can play up the cost, whose property will this run over? can you find a way to charge for that? Is there a way to make the plan economically infeasible on the Utah side?

Play up the devestation images on the UT side as well, but make sure that you get a large community of NO votes to the project, and have these people attack the local press, bombard them with opinions. Have them independently collect evidence which made it look like a bad idea.

Bird flue, swine flu and SARS aren't fake, they're just blown out of porportion. You want to do the same thing. Here's another angle. Paint this as a short term solution, that after the desertification of Utah, Las Vegas will once again be out of water. Get a lot of scientists on board, make the arguments look and sound so scary that no one dare question them.

Then propose an alternate solution.

You don't need to produce the quantity of water they ask for, you need to stall for time until Las Vegas collapses, which it will do. This city has no industry other than decadence, which is a big seller to the underclass, but not when they have no money at all.

Organize, get people together, make websites, etc., but when these people write editorials in the press, make sure they are

A) on both sides of the border
B) are never easily connected with your organization
C) show some unique new problem, a lack of voter support, hazards for NV and a really high sticker price for the plan.

I'll make up plans and send them to you for a Las Vegas aqueduct. Just futsing around, I designed one of these as a hypothetical solution for Nigeria, Las Vegas would be a better place to start, because they might pay for the damn thing.

Here's the reason you need your own alternative: If the deal gets killed, Nevada will just go somewhere else, which could end up having the same effect on your water supply:

I need to keep reminding myself of this river layout, I always think of it as North-South, which you set me straight on.

Anyway, I think as I gnaw this over, that you can use this to your advantage: If the Las Vegas aqueduct idea is workable, the city does have a ton of cash, if than it can be made to look cheaper, they might shell it out, then Cali might copy the idea.

I'll send you my notes on this, now you have me thinking. Meanwhile, you have to stall for time. Think of that as your #1 objective.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:54 AM

BYTEMITE

PirateCat: Yeah, but I'm not Mormon, and the land in Northern Utah is actually green and pretty, especially near the mountains. All the "Utah is a wasteland" jokes are actually a justification for the aforementioned theft, and I take it seriously.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:07 AM

BYTEMITE

Thanks, Dream. :)

I wonder if there's any environmental groups I can sic on the Utah politicians working out this deal. Only problem is, environmental groups then tend to turn on the alternative proposed solutions as well.

Maybe I can stir up some university students... All it might take would be a booth at the Student Union about the problem. Students tend to like Environmental Issues, and I've noticed full-time students have a heck of a lot more time to get involved than do people with jobs. I could get them to mail or e-mail the politicians or something. Also need to somehow get in touch with the people who would be affected in Snake Valley...

Might be a good way to spend my Friday off day, actually. Not only would I be informing people about problems I see, but I bet booth sitting is good and boring and might be helpful for my writing hobby.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:37 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
I saw a documentary recently called HOME by Yann Arthus-Bertrand. (It is free and online and it is beautiful to watch)

One of the lines that struck with me was about the global crisis for drinkable water.

In Rajasthan, India, people have to get their water by hand from ever deepening wells. They survive on less than 2 liters of water per person per day.

In Las Vegas, water is used at a rate of 8000 liters of water per person per day.

Wow. Getting water by hand, couldn't that potentially introduce contamination into the wells?

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:10 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Irrigators are the largest water consumers in the American West; consumingroughly 80 per cent of fresh water. ... In the United States, irrigators have traditionally been heavily subsidised by the federal government; typically paying only the pumping and conveyances costs but not the scarcity value of water (Libecap2007). Furthermore, a portion of the water applied to agriculture is toward the production of low-valued crops such as hay and alfalfa."

I think that is the first problem that needs to be solved. And I think it would be easy to get people irked by the fact that large-scale water-users are getting a free (or at least really cheap) ride. They are not paying their fair share - and WE in fact are paying THEIR water bill and allowing them to waste water as they wish.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:00 AM

BYTEMITE

Well, that's a good point too. I see a lot of those center pivot irrigation set ups region wide, and whenever I'm heading through rural areas, I always see them watering during the day. Utah also tends to do a lot of hay and alfalfa farming. But then again, I also have seen the farmers having to struggle with wheeling out the big irrigation set-ups to the fields, so there may be some other difficult factors in regards to water conservation for farmers, such as obsolete technology (and funny enough, central pivot is considered water conserving, compared to earlier methods). I agree with you that irrigation water conservation is something that needs to be worked on, but this is a longer term goal, and less immediate.

A big problem here is the issue of the water claims for this particular aquifer. Technically, geographically, it's in both states, but Utahans have tapped it and Nevadans, not so much. This aquifer is also considered to be a slow recharge, so there's some uncertainty whether the water can be replaced as city as the Las Vegas municipality pumps it out.

I sort of think the water claims system has problems in of itself, really. You'd think that a pre-existing owner with some rights to a water claim could take action against a later party coming in nearby and drawing down so much that the first owner no longer has access to the water they have a claim on, but this isn't the case.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:42 AM

DREAMTROVE

Take over Las Vegas and introduce water use regulations.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:48 AM

MANGOLO

I don't know about Vegas, but here a golf course is classified as Agricultural use of land (and water). I know Vegas has a bunch of golf courses and those take millions of gallons each.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=86085840444

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:56 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Take over Las Vegas and introduce water use regulations.

Yes... Step number 586 in the world domination plan.

Mangolo: EIGHTEEN golf courses. I can think of two, maybe three in Salt Lake City. They're classified as agriculture? What a bunch of...!

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Wednesday, September 20, 2023 6:13 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Reavers in Las Vegas!

Why MGM in Vegas Is Losing Millions of Dollars Per Day Right Now
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2023/09/19/why-mgm-in-vegas-is
-losing-millions-of-dollars-per-day-right-now-n2628592
If you visit Las Vegas, you might want to avoid at least one location: MGM Resorts. It got hit by a cyber-attack, creating chaos that’s been felt from the casino floor to the hotel rooms. Booking and checking in are now arduous tasks. Hotel key cards at the resort are also reportedly twitchy due to the hack. For eight days, MGM Resorts has been in a state of paralysis that’s costing them over $8 million daily, thanks to the hackers shutting down all the slot machines.

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Friday, September 22, 2023 8:58 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Vegas teen told cops ‘I’ll be out in 30 days’ after he was nabbed in killing of retired top cop chief in hit-and-run: report

https://nypost.com/2023/09/22/jesus-ayala-and-jzamir-keys-appear-in-la
s-vegas-adult-court-following-andreas-probst-death/

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Thursday, March 7, 2024 8:15 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department issued an arrest warrant for 45-year-old Daniel Rodimer.A former congressional candidate was identified by Las Vegas police as the murder suspect in the death of Christopher Tapp

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/crime/murder-suspect-identified-deat
h-idahos-christopher-tapp/277-6ec200ae-9fb3-4702-8b9c-add28250cc6b

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