Babysitting is not a crime Unless you actually sit on the baby. by piratenews

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Babysitting is not a crime Unless you actually sit on the baby.

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Thursday, October 1, 2009 11:20
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VIEWED: 890
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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:31 PM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

$1,000 fine for babysitting
www.wzzm13.com/news/news_story.aspx?storyid=114016&catid=14#

"It takes a village to destroy a family."
-The Village Idiot

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:39 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Should be that once a complaint like this is found to be frivolous, you get to have the name of the complainer, and that complainer goes on a list, and his/her complaints get ignored for at least a year.

I would likely respond with flaming dog poop on the door step.

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Dude, did you used to write for the "Weakly" World News, or what? You seem to have never gotten one single "fact" right in anything you've posted.

You say it's a crime, you mention $1,000 fines, and everything in the article discredits those claims. She was *threatened* with fines, pointed out that she takes no money and is not in business, and now legislation is pending that would exempt people like her from licensing requirements.

So, no fine, no crime, nothing like you've claimed. Once again, in your zeal to create some sort of issue where there is none, you've gotten every single facet of the story dead wrong.

No wonder nobody will show your stupid-ass garbage on TV, public-access or anywhere else! You seem to be a menace to anything even remotely related to the truth.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:46 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Ease off him a bit, Mikey - this one's local, and heres more info.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090930/ap_on_re_us/us_baby_sitter_backlas
h_mich

While no one ELSE is saying it, let it be known the "complainant" was in fact the owner of the local daycare center, of COURSE, and attempting to exploit a well meaning law into the opposite of it's intention - this is again, why I am an Anarchist, cause laws are too damn easy to wind up counter to their very purpose, and in a society that values those laws MORE than the stuff they are supposed to be protecting, this stuff happens.

Jenny (our Governor) chewed a few ears on the phone over this, and is kinda pissed off about it cause while as a legislator she's all business, she has a soft spot for kids as big as mine, AND a good head on her shoulders about it, without the fanaticism that leads to stupidity like this.

I'll refrain from quoting Liz Boyd's initial off the record commentary, but let's just say you couldn't have quoted it on public television, neither.

We're working on this, but it really is a perfect showcase of why community should take priority over legislation 99% of the time.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:55 PM

CHRISISALL

Once again, Mal's words on the subject come true.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:14 PM

TRAVELER

The legislators are working to amend the law. It is obvious it was never intended to penalize someone in this situation. That is why it is so difficult and time consuming to create a new law. You have to look at any new law from every direction or you get situations like this. It is foolish and I am sure the agency does not want to fine her, but the law ties their hands. So let the state correct the law and everything will work out.

It is like everything you create for the first time. It will have flaws and when they are discovered you correct them. You should see how many devices we create in engineering that end up in the trash because no one noticed some flaw in the design. You just take what you learn and start again. That is why the Constitution was designed to add Amendments. Our forefathers saw that corrections would come up and provided for them. Rather smart of them.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:26 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, perhaps cranking out laws by the dozen which are so tremendously verbose, yet so vague they could mean ANYTHING...

Isn't the solution to most of the problems facing the world today, hmm ?

-F

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:29 PM

DREAMTROVE

Frem

People are easily manipulated. Watch them all jump to defend their self-assigned wards should anyone *appear* to be attacking them. Call getting shot in a foreign war a gay rights issue and pretty soon you have a whole new crew of lemmings. Could happen to anyone.

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:08 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
A West Michigan woman says the state is threatening her with fines and possibly jail time for babysitting her neighbors' children.

The Department of Human Services received a complaint that Snyder was operating an illegal child care home. DHS contacted Snyder and told her to get licensed, stop watching her neighbors' kids, or face the consequences.

If she babysat the kids today, she would be arrested, hit with $1,000 fine (per kid per day), plus court costs, lawyer fees, probation fees, bail bond, etc.

Here's how it "works" in that state, by "summary" conviction without trial:

Quote:
The Michigan Department of Consumer & Industry Services (CIS), Bureau of Regulatory Services has issued an order of summary suspension and notice of intent to revoke action to Kent County family day care home provider Julie DeJong, 641 79th St., Kentwood, Michigan. Julie DeJong was ordered to immediately cease providing care to children effective 6:00 P.M. on Thursday, November 15, 2001. These actions are the result of a recent complaint investigation of the family day care home.

Under Michigan statute, a Family Day Care Home is defined as “a private home in which 1 but fewer than 7 minor children are received for care and supervision for periods of less than 24 hours a day, unattended by a parent or legal guardian, except children related to an adult member of the family by blood, marriage, or adoption. Family day care includes a home that gives care to an unrelated minor child for more than 4 weeks during the calendar year.”

The November 14, 2001 findings of the complaint investigation found that:

· A minor household member was inappropriately touched by another minor household member.
Criminal charges have been filed.

Effective as of 6:00 P.M., November 15, 2001 the Summary Suspension Order required Julie DeJong not to operate a Family Day Care Home at 641 79th St., Kentwood, Michigan or at any other address or location. Children are not to be received for care after that date or time. The order required Julie DeJong to inform all of the parents or guardians of children in care that her certificate of registration was suspended and that she can no longer provide child care.

An Administrative Hearing regarding the Department’s suspension and revocation action will be scheduled.

Julie DeJong has held a certificate of registration to operate a Family Day Care Home since August 28, 1996. The certificate of registration was for 6 children.

www.michigan.gov/dleg/0,1607,7-154-10573_11472-49123--,00.html

And this one DID HAVE A LICENSE.

Babysitter License from Hell
www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,1607,7-124-5455_49572_50051---,00.html

Note that it is a crime for babysitters to be high school students, and an adult with a high school diploma CANNOT be a babysitter until they have been an apprentice babysitter for "3840 hours", as an employee of another babysitter.

A "license" is defined as permission from the govt to do something that is UNLAWFUL and ILLEGAL. In other words, a license is permission to commit a crime...

A Citizen's Guide to Filing a Complaint against a Licensed Child Care Provider - BCAL PUB-RAT
www.michigan.gov/documents/dhs/BCAL-PUB-0811_271294_7.pdf

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:37 PM

TRAVELER

Yet you need to regulate business. One of the occurances in the city of Milwaukee, where I live, is bus drivers leaving children in their buses after finishing their shift. A child will fall asleep and miss their stop. There they sit with out being noticed. We now have a law that makes the drivers tour their buses to be sure they are empty.
A new law that should have neen in place from the first school bus. It came to a head when a hot day caused a child to sufficate. Even with this law there are drivers who either ignor or forget to do this simple task.
The death was mainly caused by the existance of daycares that have very small buses that heat up fast. In the past the children were in full size buses that had a lot more air and gave the police time to find them. It is not the daycares fault, if they hire a driver with a proper license. The drivers has to be sure that ever child is delivered and none are left in the bus.
It seems something new like this crops up ever couple of years. I hope it does not require a death to discover a flaw in any regulations.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:06 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Hmmm.. no.

I don't think you can effectively legislate common sense any more than you can effectively outlaw stupidity - all that tryin does is cause heartache and misfortune.

I note for the record that attempting to legislate morality is a damned bad idea as well.

Besides that, the case in question there - there's already something on the books to handle a matter like that, called Criminal Negligence.

And while currently reduced to a chorus of puppets for the prosecution, the role of the Jury in matters such as this is intended to flatten out the lumpy grey areas in any legislation by allowing ones peers to decide if the law is being applied properly, or even should be applied to the case in question - so as to avoid the *NEED* of legislating every little petty detail and causing situations like this.
http://fija.org/

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:

$1,000 fine for babysitting
www.wzzm13.com/news/news_story.aspx?storyid=114016&catid=14#

"It takes a village to destroy a family."
-The Village Idiot

Shouldn't surprise anybody who has spent time in Michigan. Ganders keep reelecting their Socialist Canadian Governor (Jenny Granholm).

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Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:27 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Suck it, Rappy, if you're gonna come here and pick shit, especially bull-shit, have the fucking decency to do it under your own username instead of playin games with us.

Bash Jenny if you like, but given the absolute slime the "other guys" oozed into the other side of the voting booth, you shouldn't be surprised if no one around here could stand the stench long enough to pull a lever for em.

We've danced this dance before, if you ain't got no worthwhile bid to bring to the table, go find one instead of bitchin... seriously, Dick Posthumous ?
Fucking DeVos ??!!

Who showed up disheveled and hung over, practically drooling on the podium, to debate a former State Attorney General who's *notorious* for being intelligent and articulate ?

Dude, your pathetic little party needs to find a better barrel to scrape the bottom of, if you ever wanna so much as glare in the direction of Jenny without being a laughingstock, well, more of one than you already are.

-F

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:56 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I note for the record that attempting to legislate morality is a damned bad idea as well.

But even such widely accepted laws against murder are just a reiteration of our common morality.

Good to hear that the legislators are working on that stupid law. And thanks for answering the question: WHO would complain??? I thought it was a cranky neighbor trying to sleep in, hating to be disturbed by a chorus if little voices. Turns out, it was much more focused than that!

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:15 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Turns out, it was much more focused than that!

As with most things, it was driven by the greed and chasing after filthy lucre.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:28 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"As with most things, it was driven by the greed and chasing after filthy lucre."

Maybe we should outlaw capitalism ?

Just kidding, sort of.

I've often wondered if 'intent' statements drafted into the laws themselves would help with interpretation and enforcement: "the intent of this law is to prevent unregulated childcare businesses from operating in this state."

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:33 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I note for the record that attempting to legislate morality is a damned bad idea as well.

I note for the record that only I'm allowed to note for the record.

And babysitting is not a crime in Ohio. Neither is running an unlicensed daycare. But if you choose to run an unlicensed daycare (meaning you only watch a few kids in your own home) you have some minimal regulation. For example, you can't be a child molester or have a child molester living in your house. You can't leave the 3 year alone by the pool for an hour resulting in their death.

I note for the record that while I have never prosecuted anyone for babysitting, I have prosecuted babysitters and child molesters for violating that 'no child molester' rule. I have also prosecuted babysitters for violating the 'don't let the child drown in the pool because you were busy watching 'The View'' rule.

But if Michigan wants to prosecute neighbors for being neighborly...well, thats Michigan. Michigan sucks. Go Bucks!

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:55 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But even such widely accepted laws against murder are just a reiteration of our common morality.

Yeah, but that's for the JURY to decide, you see ?

Just cause imma Anarchist doesn't mean I wanna smash a system that WERE IT USED AS INTENDED, is acceptable and helpful to most of society, being that they're generally *not* Anarchists.

That's where me and most other Anarchists differ, in that I do not wish to take away structures other people actually want, just cause they offend MY sensibilities - that's just another form of tyranny, in my opinion.

Fixing a mess though, that benefits everyone.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:13 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

The only constitutionally valid law is common law of torts allowing lawsuits against anyone who accidentally causes damage or harm, or arrest for anyone who intentionally harms another. Licenses (tax) to run a business (merged by contract with the State) are not valid law.

Babysitting is not a crime, just like driving is not a crime. Oh wait, yes it is. If you dont voluntarily buy a license to do that which is illegal. (But its ok for 75% of judges to practice law without a license to practice law.)

All normal human behavior will soon require a license to live and breathe. The license will be a computer chip, carried in your purse or embedded in your body, as currently on passports and driver licenses. Without it -- or if Big Bro turns it off for being a bad boy or girl -- you will no longer be allowed to exist. Game over.

Government is evil. It's minions are traitors, unless they fight Big Bro every day.

Revolution and Civil War by design to overthrow USA TODAY. And the idiot cops and prosecutors contribute to their own destruction. Frakkin morons.

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:29 AM

TRAVELER

When the first creation of laws were decided, what compass did they have? Each step along the path of creating just laws requires some guidence. This woman is watching over other peoples children. From what I understand it was not just one or two, but several. In truth, they were waiting for a bus and would be gathered there anyway. I see in the picture that some were very young and it would have been irresponsible to let them be unsupervised. The law, in my mind, is unjust to fine her running an unlicenced daycare. But currently it is the law. The agency that has jurisdiction has received a complaint and must follow through. If she were to take this to court a judge would have a choice of what direction to take. I hope it will not go that far. As I stated before it appears the legislature is going to amend this law. But if not, a judge must look at the facts and make a verdict. I would throw it out, but I am not the judge. Chances are she would receive a warning and case closed. This means each parent would have to attend their child until the school bus arrives. The point is the state legislature sees their error, I hope, and are working on a change.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:43 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"As with most things, it was driven by the greed and chasing after filthy lucre."

Maybe we should outlaw capitalism ?

Just kidding, sort of.

As was I. When capitalism is outlawed, only outlaws will make money!

You can have my goods when you can pry them from my cold, dead hands. For a fair price, of course, including profit and operating costs.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:45 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
I note for the record that only I'm allowed to note for the record.

I note for the record that you're wrong, and your remarks should be stricken from the record! :D

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:51 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:

Revolution and Civil War by design to overthrow USA TODAY.

Really, you'd think there'd be an article on it here: http://www.usatoday.com/

Personally I've always liked their general overview and cool color layouts. If you want to overthrow something...try the Farmer's Almanac.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, October 1, 2009 11:20 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:

Revolution and Civil War by design to overthrow USA TODAY.

Really, you'd think there'd be an article on it here: http://www.usatoday.com/

Personally I've always liked their general overview and cool color layouts. If you want to overthrow something...try the Farmer's Almanac.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

I've always referred to USA TODAY as "McPaper". It's cheap, colorful, and has zero value.

Mike

The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means;
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams

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