Hey, we can trust Wall Street, why should we change anything? Things are just great as they are; the rich get richer, and the rest of us pay the tab:[qu..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Re: Goldman Sachs

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 08:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 439
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey, we can trust Wall Street, why should we change anything? Things are just great as they are; the rich get richer, and the rest of us pay the tab:
Quote:

"Our assets are our people, capital and reputation. If any of these is ever diminished, the last is most difficult to restore."
-- From Goldman Sachs Business Principle No. 2

The hot question on Wall Street these days is whether Goldman violated the securities laws in the Abacus case, as the Securities & Exchange Commission charges. But I don't much care about the legality of what Goldman allegedly did, because something doesn't have to be illegal to be wrong. And almost everything about the Abacus 2007-AC1 "synthetic collateralized debt obligation" deal was wrong.

No, not for legal reasons, but for the reason Goldman cited in Principle No. 2. The firm not only put its reputation at risk in Abacus, but by its own account also managed to lose money on it. It wasn't just dumb, it was double dumb.

Let me explain. Abacus, as we'll soon see, wasn't an investment vehicle -- it was a gambling vehicle. By definition, with a synthetic CDO someone's gain is someone else's loss. Think of it as a big-bucks poker game in which Goldman lined up three high rollers, provided them with a private room, helped negotiate the rules, and took a fat fee for bringing everyone together.

When you host one of these games, you not only have to make sure that it isn't rigged, you can't afford to have it looked rigged, in case the losers (or the people who cover their tab) go to the cops. In addition, if you're smart -- what Goldman calls "long-term greedy" -- you make sure the game doesn't help undermine the society that makes your business possible.

Goldman, based on what I think I know about this case, violated both these principles. (The firm, not surprisingly, declined to comment beyond what it's already said.)

(more at http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/19/news/economy/deal_sloan_abacus_goldman
.fortune/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin
)

"Goldman Might Want to Settle:



Of course, they're happily making huge profits in the meantime:
Quote:

Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said Tuesday its first-quarter earnings almost doubled to $3.3 billion as its trading business again surpassed the rest of the financial industry. It was a bit of good news for the bank as it faces a government civil fraud charge.

Goldman Sachs earned $5.59 a share on revenue of $12.78 billion as bond, commodities and currency trading buoyed its profits for yet another quarter. That was well above expectations of analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters. In the fourth quarter, Goldman Sachs earned a record $4.79 billion.

Goldman Sachs also reported sharply higher fees from underwriting stock and debt offerings.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/20/business/main6413860.shtml


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 20, 2010 4:10 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Hey, let's just forget all this "Innocent until proven guilty" stuff. Right? Some columnist says they are wrong, so who needs a trial and proof and stuff like that?

That the way you really want the world to work, Niki?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 20, 2010 4:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Yeah, forget all that innocent until proven guilty stuff - unless it pertains to Obama getting campaign money from Goldman, eh? Then we'll just assume guilt and carry on with the lynching!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 20, 2010 5:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Dollars to donuts the only reason why the SEC took action is bc the German bank that got snookered pushed 'em. If Goldman had stuck with raping ordinary Americans, sure the SEC woulda let it slide. In any case, now that the SEC has opened the door, other lawsuits from all over the world will follow.

Let the games begin!


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 21, 2010 8:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Most likely going after Goldman right now is tied to the effort at financial reform. Personally, I hope it works!

As to other countries joining in, the games HAVE begun:
Quote:

The market watchdog in UK, Financial Services Authority (FSA), said it would investigate the London units of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. This followed a decision by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) of the US to sue the financial major for fraud.
As far as "innocent until proven guilty", I've learned enough about the facts to have my own opinion; it's up to courts to decide the "official" verdict.
Quote:

Goldman Sachs, Fabrice Tourre and the complex Abacus of toxic mortgages

At the centre of the US regulators' fraud charges against Goldman Sachs and employee Fabrice Tourre is a CDO – a parcel of sub-prime mortgages - called Abacus 2007-AC1.

On January 23, 2007, Fabrice Tourre sat down to write what is likely to go down in the annals of the financial crisis as one of the most memorable emails to have found its way out of Wall Street.

Typing in French and in English to a friend who may never be named, the Goldman Sachs banker shared his apparently true feelings on the state of the US housing market: “More and more leverage in the system. The whole building is about to collapse anytime now ... Only potential survivor, the fabulous Fab[rice Tourre] ... standing in the middle of all these complex, highly leveraged, exotic trades he created without necessarily understanding all of the implication of those monstruosities [sic]!!!”

On January 23, 2007, Fabrice Tourre sat down to write what is likely to go down in the annals of the financial crisis as one of the most memorable emails to have found its way out of Wall Street.

Typing in French and in English to a friend who may never be named, the Goldman Sachs banker shared his apparently true feelings on the state of the US housing market: “More and more leverage in the system. The whole building is about to collapse anytime now ... Only potential survivor, the fabulous Fab[rice Tourre] ... standing in the middle of all these complex, highly leveraged, exotic trades he created without necessarily understanding all of the implication of those monstruosities [sic]!!!”

On January 23, 2007, Fabrice Tourre sat down to write what is likely to go down in the annals of the financial crisis as one of the most memorable emails to have found its way out of Wall Street.

Typing in French and in English to a friend who may never be named, the Goldman Sachs banker shared his apparently true feelings on the state of the US housing market: “More and more leverage in the system. The whole building is about to collapse anytime now ... Only potential survivor, the fabulous Fab[rice Tourre] ... standing in the middle of all these complex, highly leveraged, exotic trades he created without necessarily understanding all of the implication of those monstruosities [sic]!!!”

On January 23, 2007, Fabrice Tourre sat down to write what is likely to go down in the annals of the financial crisis as one of the most memorable emails to have found its way out of Wall Street.

Typing in French and in English to a friend who may never be named, the Goldman Sachs banker shared his apparently true feelings on the state of the US housing market: “More and more leverage in the system. The whole building is about to collapse anytime now ... Only potential survivor, the fabulous Fab[rice Tourre] ... standing in the middle of all these complex, highly leveraged, exotic trades he created without necessarily understanding all of the implication of those monstruosities [sic]!!!”

But a month later, on February 26, French-born Tourre produced another document, a 65-page “flip book” that contained details of a $1bn investment fund, designed to be given to potential investors.

The fund was no ordinary fund, however, but a synthetic collateralised debt obligation (CDO) – a parcel of sub-prime mortgages - to be called Abacus 2007-AC1.

In other words, it was jam-packed with the types of “highly leveraged, exotic trades” he had previously criticised.

Tourre’s role in Goldman Sachs’ scandal – which yesterday saw the bank and Tourre charged with two civil counts of securities fraud – is central to understanding what exactly happened in the marketing of the Abacus fund, and why the world’s biggest bank is now effectively on public trial.

The Securities and Exchange Commission's 22-page court filing details what it portrays as an orchestrated attempt by Goldman and its junior employee to allegedly deceive clients in order to profit twice – once from structuring the Abacus fund, for which it earned $15m, and once from Paulson & Co, the New York based hedge fund run by John Paulson, for which its profits are not known.

Paulson came to Goldman in January 2007, asking it to help buy protection against what it believed would be a fall in US residential mortgage-backed securities, and then “discussed with Goldman possible transactions in which counterparties to its short position might be found.” Those counterparties were to be “found” in Abacus 2007 AC-1 – a new CDO which was part of a wider programme of CDOs structured by Goldman.

Unlike other CDOs, however, the SEC allege that this one had been constructed under the influence of Paulson – which is not itself accused of any wrongdoing.

Having decided to create a CDO to allow investors to invest in a potential increase in the value of sub-prime mortgages – which Paulson would then short – Goldman needed independent validation that what it was selling was kosher. Step forward ACA Management, a specialist in analysing credit risk owned by ABN Amro, the Dutch investment bank.

But although ACA was recruited as the ultimate “portfolio selection agent” of the mortgages within the Abacus derivative for its “credibility”, unbeknown to it – or future investors – Paulson is alleged by the SEC to have initially handed Goldman a list of 123 residential mortgage-backed securities (RMBS) to be considered for inclusion.

The 123 RMBS were based on Paulson’s selection criteria of those most likely to default – and so included mortgages from borrowers with low credit scores, and from states which had seen high rates of house price appreciation, states like Arizona and Florida which have since seen high repossession levels.

After discussion with ACA, the SEC alleges that ACA and Paulson together selected 90 RMBS in which Abacus would invest, but only after Paulson allegedly “kicked out” a number of Wells Fargo mortgages which were “generally perceived” to be of higher quality.

Of course, once Abacus had been constructed, it was up to Tourre to market the issue, and market he did.

The SEC alleges Tourre misled ACA into believing Paulson invested up to $200m in the equity of Abacus, and told IKB, the German bank which invested $150m, that the mortgages were selected by ACA, as the bank had previously informed Goldman it was not interested in investing in CDOs that hadn’t been selected by a third party.

But Tourre also allegedly misled investors by not telling them – either verbally or in the CDO’s marketing documents – that Paulson was all the while shorting the RMBS within Abacus.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/759997
0/Goldman-Sachs-Fabrice-Tourre-and-the-complex-Abacus-of-toxic-mortgages.html


They can have their "allegedly-es", it makes sense to me. Again, it's my OPINION, I'm not authorized to judge or punish them.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Sun, April 28, 2024 09:30 - 2313 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Sun, April 28, 2024 07:40 - 6311 posts
Dangerous Rhetoric coming from our so-called President
Sun, April 28, 2024 07:30 - 1 posts
Scientific American Claims It Is "Misinformation" That There Are Just Two Sexes
Sun, April 28, 2024 02:45 - 20 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Sun, April 28, 2024 02:09 - 3573 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Sun, April 28, 2024 02:03 - 1016 posts
The Thread of Court Cases Trump Is Winning
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:37 - 20 posts
Case against Sidney Powell, 2020 case lawyer, is dismissed
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:29 - 13 posts
I'm surprised there's not an inflation thread yet
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:28 - 745 posts
Slate: I Changed My Mind About Kids and Phones. I Hope Everyone Else Does, Too.
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:19 - 3 posts
14 Tips To Reduce Tears and Remove Smells When Cutting Onions
Sat, April 27, 2024 21:08 - 9 posts
Russian War Crimes In Ukraine
Sat, April 27, 2024 19:27 - 15 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL