[quote]New York's Staten Island was broiling under a life-threatening heat wave and borough President James Molinaro was seriously concerned about the ar..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

U.S. electricity blackouts skyrocketing

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, December 3, 2023 10:14
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Monday, August 9, 2010 5:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

New York's Staten Island was broiling under a life-threatening heat wave and borough President James Molinaro was seriously concerned about the area's Little League baseball players.

It was last July's Eastern heat wave and Consolidated Edison was responding to scattered power outages as electricity usage neared record highs.

So, authorities followed Molinaro's suggestion to cancel that night's Little League games, which were to be played under electricity-sucking stadium lights.

"Number one, it was a danger to the children that were playing out there in that heat, and secondly it would save electricity that people would need for air conditioning in their homes," said Molinaro, who'd been forced to sleep at his office that night because of a blackout in his own neighborhood.

Throughout New York City, about 52,000 of ConEd's 3.2 million customers lost power during the heat wave. Triple-digit temperatures forced residents like 77 year-old Rui Zhi Chen, to seek shelter at one of the city's 400 emergency cooling centers. "It felt like an oven in my home and on the street," Chen said.

Should Americans view these kinds of scenarios as extraordinary circumstances -- or a warning sign of a darker future?

Experts on the nation's electricity system point to a frighteningly steep increase in non-disaster-related outages affecting at least 50,000 consumers.

During the past two decades, such blackouts have increased 124 percent -- up from 41 blackouts between 1991 and 1995, to 92 between 2001 and 2005, according to research at the University of Minnesota.

In the most recently analyzed data available, utilities reported 36 such outages in 2006 alone.

Compare the U.S. data to Japan which averages only four minutes of total interrupted service each year. "As you can see, we have a long way to go," said Andres Carvallo, who played a key role in planning the smart grid in Austin, Texas.

Experts point to the northeastern and southeastern U.S. as regions where outages pose the most threat -- mainly due to aging wires, pole transformers and other lagging infrastructure.

"They know where they have tight spots," said Mark Lauby, of the North American Electric Reliability Corporation, which enforces reliability standards. Without mentioning specific regions, Lauby said utilities are "making sure the generation and the transmission are available to help support those consumers."

Building a national smart grid "won't be cheap and it wont be easy," acknowledged Amin. Much of it could be completed as soon as 2030 at a cost of up to $1.5 trillion, according to the Department of Energy. It's unclear who would foot the entire bill, but the Obama administration has committed about $4 billion in investment grants.

Carvallo jokes about the so-called "Easy Button" at Austin Energy. It's not really a big red button on the wall, but it is a mechanism that allows an operator to control tens of thousands of home thermostats.

"Austin is two to three years ahead of everybody else," said Carvallo, now chief strategy officer for the smart grid software firm Grid Net.

He points to a volunteer program that offers free thermostats to customers who allow the utility to remotely control their air conditioners during specific months and hours. This way, thousands of power-gulping air conditioners can be cycled off for a short time when electricity was needed elsewhere.

By summer's end, Austin expects to begin enabling its 700,000 streetlights to be turned "on and off with a flip of a switch," saving $340,000 in electricity each year, and eliminating 200 tons of carbon dioxide air pollution.

Replacing old-style electric meters with "smart meters" is often described as the first step in creating a smart grid. All 400,000 of Austin's meters are smart meters.

Nationwide, 26 utilities in 15 states have installed some 16 million smart meters in homes and businesses.

The only problem with those "smart meters" is things like this here in Californiaq:
Quote:

Customers complained of skyrocketing bills after PG&E installed smart meters into their homes, and for months officials had brushed off the complaints, wanting to talk about how many of the meters are working correctly.

In a well-orchestrated press conference in San Francisco, PG&E officials finally acknowledged the tens of thousands of reported problems.

"Regaining our customers' trust for PG&E and these devices is absolutely critical," said PG&E senior vice president Helen Burt. "I really don't believe we did a good job about seeing the world through the lens of the customer."

For weeks, PG&E has stressed the fact that just one percent of installed smart meters have had problems, "but lets face it, one percent of 5.5 million meters is nearly 50,000 customers," Burt said.

"One customer is one customer too many," she added.

Customers like Tiffany and Joshua Sucevich of Esparto said their bill quadrupled the month their smart meter went in, and then tripled again the next month.

"I cried, I literally cried," Tiffany said.

PG&E claimed the couple must have used more energy. CBS13 viewers have told us they've been blown off by the energy company when they tried to complain.

Of course, we all trust PG&E, they're good guys, like BP... But the potential for problems is enormous...and looking to PG&E (or any other energy company) for fairness is like, well, y'know:
Quote:

They plan to release monthly reports on the smart meter rollout; they previously said the reports were not public. They're also adding staff for call centers dedicated to answering smart meter questions.

"Candidly, we should've done a better job explaining it from the beginning," Burt said.

PG&E said they are working to rebuild consumer confidence, especially since every customer will have a smart meter by 2012, like it or not.

PG&E is continuing to install about 15,000 smart meters a day.

In other words: like it or lump it. So to quote a TV show I liked, "Where do we go from here?"


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Monday, August 9, 2010 6:41 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Solar Power?

What are you advocating? Government controlled power?

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Monday, August 9, 2010 7:27 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


saw this headline this morning over on MSN or CNN or wherever-it-was, and decided it was the disaster-de-jour story for the week. Like every other infastructure story, it's predictable: somebody invested in creating something, probably with government subsidy, and ever since, has been taking the cash out of it, without budgeting enough for on-going maintenance or growth in spite of increasing demand. Now it's wearing out and gonna collapse. Railroads, highways, water systems, bridges-- Hey, isn't the Golden Gate about to drop into the sea?-- schools, hospitals, Which is gonna give out first?

Spider Robinson once wrote about the "spaceship Earth" metaphor that the media is the ship's intercom and that it keeps bringing damage control reports about breakdowns in remote compartments that we can't do anything about. The only solution to the stress that causes that he can suggest is to turn the thing off for a while.

And this one--If it's not a PR motivated statistically manipulation -- a 125 % increase over 20 years-- is a slo-mo problem that has been predicted for a very long time, every summer, and the solution is pretty simple-- reduce profits and increase investment. Or conserve and reduce usage. Or bill more fairly, charge the billion kilowatt hour industrial users at the same rate that they charge billions of small domestic users- a kilowatt hour used is a kilowatt hour used, and costs just as much to generate whether it's used to power a 13 watt energy saver light bulb or a 500 horsepower motor drive or 100 kw industrial heater.
But of course there's no political will for any of that. So 'scuse me, I'm gonna change the intercom channel to the easy listening station...

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Monday, August 9, 2010 7:40 AM

FREMDFIRMA


I know what I am advocating, and that's spending the fucking money on the necessary infrastructure to update our power grid to even 20th century standards - if any of ya knew just how bad a shape a lot of it is in you'd be horrified, and it's not like we didn't get a hard lesson about that not too long ago with a serious blackout.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_2003

But no, all the money in the world for pointless slaughter, while our infrastructure crumbles around us - we let it go three, five more years, we won't even be ABLE to repair it, and think of what it would cost then ?

For the want of a nail....

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, August 9, 2010 11:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, Frem, right on.

2007:
Quote:

Business groups push infrastructure investment

The Senate passed legislation Aug. 2 that would create a national commission to analyze and prioritize America's infrastructure needs.

The key issue is how to fund infrastructure improvements. President Bush opposes an increase in gasoline taxes, contending Congress should first re-examine how it allocates federal highway funds.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2007/08/20/story8.html

February, 2008:
Quote:

Governors pushing for federal money to repair roads, water systems and bridges say they did not get the response they wanted from the White House on Monday.

Governors raised the issue during a meeting with President Bush. "It's the best type of stimulus, even better than what was in the first package," Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, a Democrat, said as he left the White House.

Bush this month signed an economic stimulus package to send $300 to $1,200 rebate checks to millions of Americans and to offer tax incentives to businesses. He opposed including infrastructure projects because "it's not really a stimulative way to get the economy going," White House press secretary Dana Perino said Monday.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-02-25-governors-bush_N.ht
m


April, 2008:
Quote:

Save for a few projects, the Bush Administration is likely to oppose Congressional Democrat leadership efforts to increase spending on infrastructure. The opposition will be based on limited government and lower taxes grounds.

The United States has largely ignored the condition of its infrastructure for more than 30 years.

The public infrastructure spending would produce "a most salient result" economist David H. Wang said -- it would stimulate U.S. economic growth even more than the income tax rebate and investment credit act passed earlier this year.

"From both an infrastructure needs and an economic stimulus standpoint, you can make a strong case for infrastructure spending," Wang said. "Of course, if private sector investment and growth magically returns to robust levels, the case is less strong. But don't look for that anytime soon."

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/04/15/federal-infrastructure-spendi
ng-could-gain-traction-if-u-s-rece
/

Gee, I guess he was right. So here we sit.

And I am NOT saying Obama's doing any better. For all he blathered about infrastructure investment in his stimulus package, it hasn't happened; so far he's no better than Dumbya. Admittedly he ONCE AGAIN compromised by taking a lot of the planned spending out, but it did no good, as usual, bought no votes, and he's just keepin' on keepin' on.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Monday, August 9, 2010 1:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And here you see the inevitable problem with maintaining an empire. At some point, you're stretched so far and so thin that your taxes and tributes aren't enough to keep up with your military spending and your infrastructure needs, so something has to be dropped. And it's NEVER military that gets dropped!

Why America thinks it can do empire right when so many have failed before is beyond me.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Monday, August 9, 2010 2:06 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Someone needs to do a study on the ideal strength to size ratio of a government. At what size does a government show maximum strength in defense ability, infrastructure, representation of citizens' needs, etc in relation to its size or population?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, August 9, 2010 2:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Someone needs to do a study on the ideal strength to size ratio of a government. At what size does a government show maximum strength in defense ability, infrastructure, representation of citizens' needs, etc in relation to its size or population?



Thing is, Anthony, it's all so fluid, and depends on so many other factors. How many other nation-states are there? How powerful are they? How AGGRESSIVE are they? What are their strengths and weaknesses, where can we work cooperatively and where must we compete for resources?

Beyond that, there's some fluidity and leeway within the subject nation itself. Less militarism will free up infrastructure money and education resources, etc. America used to be #1 in the world in graduating our people from college; now we're #12. That can't be helpful. So it's not like it's a big circle graph (think the fascism/anarchism/left/right graph that Frem posts now and then, for example); it's a "squishier" graph, with some fluidity and flow - add to one area, and you take away from others.

It would be fascinating to study, though, to see what the "ideal" conditions should be. But even if you could conclusively prove that, how do you (a) get others to agree, given that facts will not sway an ideologically set mind, and (b) how do you get national leaders to try to move a nation toward those ideals?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Monday, August 9, 2010 3:15 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"It would be fascinating to study, though, to see what the "ideal" conditions should be. But even if you could conclusively prove that, how do you (a) get others to agree, given that facts will not sway an ideologically set mind, and (b) how do you get national leaders to try to move a nation toward those ideals?"

Hello,

Oh, I've no hope of either of those. But maybe the next new country, say on Mars, might benefit from the research. ;-)

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, August 9, 2010 3:19 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Good point.

Of course, to get to Mars, you have to achieve a certain level of expertise and NOT collapse under your own weight, so it might be helpful to have an idea where those squishy boundaries are if we're ever going to get off this rock...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Monday, August 9, 2010 8:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

What are you advocating? Government controlled power?
OH NO! God forbid we should give the power over to an organization we can vote on!

'Cause I really love MONOPOLY POWER, don't YOU? I was going to post a rant about friggin' Verizon *ssholes dicking with our dsl service 'cause we don't go thru their service, but by god we gotta use their effin' line. So aside from gating our service (which they're not supposed to do 'cause we're paying top dollar for high speed) they left us high and dry for five days, one day without PHONE SERVICE.

And let's not get started on net neutrality, and applications stealing your personal info off your smart phone.

Oh, yeah, I just LOVE monopolies. It's like we're turning into a third-world country, for god's sake! Power goes out at random, the phone service is unreliable, ya gotta play nurse to your relatives in the hospital 'cause the hospitals are too friggin' understaffed to actually... yanno... take care of their patients just so that the insurances can rake in the big bucks. I mean... WTF???

When did we get so ideologically hidebound that we've gotten past the point of cutting off our noses to spite our faces? What is wrong with us??? Did we all take stupid pills, or something? Do we REALLY think that facts don't matter?

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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:50 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Easy solution. Just raise the rates for electricity to that prevailing in most of the developed world, and fix the grid.

Of course, most rates are set by governmental agencies. They're supposed to be based on the utility's costs, but also consider political realities of keeping the current set of politicians in power. Someone who's in office when the rates go up will have a bad image to overcome.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh horse shit - not when MY local provider, also a monopoly, is allowed to make RETROACTIVE profits by charging an additional cost on top of the fucking bill, which in the case of natural gas, fully constitutes SIXTY PERCENT of my goddamn bill, or more, during the summer when the only thing using gas is the fuckin water heater and that thing is set to minimum anyhows.

And don't even get me started on Comcast, just don't, cause I got enough dirt on them that if anyone with the authority to do something gave a shit, they'd be run out of this STATE on a rail if not outright imprisoned, I am not whatever kidding.

So don't hand me that "free market" bullshit, especially when anyone who can remember Enron creating deliberate artificial shortages and outages to drive up the prices can refute you.

That one especially pisses me off, cause I pointed it out AT THE TIME, and got shouted down as a freakin conspiracy theorist, and fat lotta good it did coming out AFTER the rest of that bullshit - cause it was all fucking true.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yep, it was all sadly true. So CA got stuck contracting for electricity at the then-prevailing rates, along with a 32 billion shortfall. And right after the contracts were signed, the rates came down.

Gee. Who could've ever guessed?

/snark


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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, my, I can't stay in this thread. If I even got STARTED on net neutrality, the Great California Electric Fuckover, or about any of the other things discussed here, well, I'd resemble RivkaneKirkAntiZit in my obscenities. No sense sujecting you guys to THAT.

Suffice it to say a simple to them all...

(Aside from which, I have my own ranted to put up--related to this )


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:11 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Oh horse shit - not when MY local provider, also a monopoly, is allowed to make RETROACTIVE profits by charging an additional cost on top of the fucking bill, which in the case of natural gas, fully constitutes SIXTY PERCENT of my goddamn bill, or more, during the summer when the only thing using gas is the fuckin water heater and that thing is set to minimum anyhows.



We in the U.S. pay, on average, 1/2 to 1/4 of what folks in Europe and Japan pay. Then we bitch because the utilities don't have the money to keep the system upgraded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing

BTW, we pay 2/3 to 1/2 of what Europe pays for natural gas.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/ngasprih.html

And your region pays below U.S. average for both gas and electricity.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/cf_tables/steotables.cfm?periodTy
pe=Annual&startYear=2004&startMonth=1&endYear=2008&endMonth=12&tableNumber=16


"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Here's one. We just had a ballot measure, cutely named something like "citizens right to vote" or something. The ads all touted that it gave people the right to vote on whether their electricity could be run by their local governments or private companies.

Now, the idea of local-government-owned electricity is a good one, most of the time. Look it up. It's been done. And of course the bill was proposed and the ads put up by electric companies. I got tagged and asked to sign the petition, along with a bunch of others. Luckily I READ the damned things and reject the ones that are sly, like this one.

But you put "don't you want to have your say", "Isn't it right you should get to vote" on a ballot measure, and people will most likely vote for it. Not realizing, of course, that if their local government DOES try to run it's own electric and that comes up on the ballot, they'll no doubt vote it down because it either costs money or "omigawd, the GOVERNMENT running it?!?!"

I don't remember whether it passed or not. I just remember being infuriated by the propaganda and the fact that most likely it would pass because of it.

How our country works.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

We in the U.S. pay, on average, 1/2 to 1/4 of what folks in Europe and Japan pay. Then we bitch because the utilities don't have the money to keep the system upgraded.
Yeah, and yanno what they get? RELIABLE ELECTRICITY. GREEN POWER. FAST NEUTRAL INTERNET.

And yanno what WE get???

Massive profits for the wealthy. Screwed effing over.

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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:02 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
yanno what WE get???

Massive profits for the wealthy. Screwed effing over.

Well, some things are more important than others, Signy.
I'm personally willing to be screwed so that fat rich peeps can pay for hot models to blow them on their yachts in the Bahamas.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
yanno what WE get???

Massive profits for the wealthy. Screwed effing over.

Well, some things are more important than others, Signy.
I'm personally willing to be screwed so that fat rich peeps can pay for hot models to blow them on their yachts in the Bahamas.





And when I'm on my yacht in the Bahamas, I will thank you for your support!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Sunday, December 3, 2023 10:14 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

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