On this subject, I've been hearing for a long time that the Repubs WANT the economy worse, for their own profit.[quote]Dear citizens, please do not think..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Republicans WANT the country to fail?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, November 10, 2022 07:42
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Monday, September 6, 2010 11:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


On this subject, I've been hearing for a long time that the Repubs WANT the economy worse, for their own profit.
Quote:

Dear citizens, please do not think that delay of financial reform or perks for the bank industry in the bill now making its way through Congress is in the best interests of this country or our people. This GOP "No" tactic has two purposes: one is the same old ploy of making this administration fail at all costs and the other is to protect the high finances of cronies and lobbyists.

This legislation has protections for credit card abuse by banks, lending limits and debt to equity requirements (which many economists say would have prevented this current crises and recession), disclosure for stockholders and clarity in derivatives investing.

Our two Arizona senators are stonewalling and obstructing every step of this process with their party-line voting and telling us it is in our best interests and is too much control over the investment industry, the investment industry that caused a global recession because they cannot regulate their own greed.

http://kdminer.com/Main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=73&ArticleID=389
36


This is old, but still valid:
Quote:

Rush recently said that he wanted Obama to fail. With the republicans refusing to work together even after critical parts of the bill were compromised, and with republicans actively harassing people from their own party who try to work with Obama, are republican refusing to help because they want this country to fail under Obama? or are they trying to avoid helping so they can free themselves of blame if things go wrong?

Comments on the above:

--Uh duh, if you want the president to fail or if you want his policies to fail that means you want the country to fail, regardless of what label you make up. Socialism is a republican n-word, if a democrat comes close to doing anything that might be considered socialist, repubs start screaming bloody murder. But i haven't heard anything from rush about the republicans who are now calling for nationalizing the banks.

--No, they don't want the country to fail, and yes, they are trying to avoid helping so they can free themselves of blame if things go wrong.

--They try to counter everything democrats do as a means of appealing to their base.

Obama could want to deploy 50,000 troops to Iraq and give a 20 billion dollar tax cut and the republicans would still try and turn it against him.

--Obama is leading the US towards Socialism. Rush said he hopes Socialism fails. Hence if it is perpetuated by Obama, Obama fails.

--Yep. Their President was inept, so now they want America to fail too.

--Yes, and they openly admit it. It is beyond comprehension to me.

As you can see, opinions are divided as to whether they want the country to fail or believe Obama's ideas are bad so want to block them to avoid the country failing. I have my own opinion.
Quote:

During a conference call, Stabenow lamented the mean-spirited Republican filibuster of a jobs bill, during a time of near-double-digit unemployment:

“We don’t have even one Republican willing to help us break this filibuster,” she said. “We have every anticipation that we will not have the votes. It’s become very clear that the Republicans in the Senate want this bill to fail.”

Sen. Stabenow can only conclude that Republicans are following a game plan to sink the economy even further, to gain an edge in the mid-term elections. The GOP realizes that angry and frightened voters will blame the Party in power for the failed economy:

“It’s a cynical move, because it doesn’t serve them in terms of their elections this fall. They have decided they want this economy to fail, and they’re willing to take the country down with them,” she added.

Unemployment extensions during times of recession have been historically deficit funded on an emergency basis. But suddenly Republicans have developed deficit religion. “If 15 million people without jobs isn’t an emergency, I don’t know what is,” said Stabenow.

What will happen now? People will needlessly suffer, children will go hungry and state workers, such as teachers, firemen and police will lose their jobs, as governors try to balance their budgets without the expected state aid included in the killed bill.

http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/06/24/sen-stabenow-republicans-want-this
-economy-to-fail
/
Quote:

"It's unpleasant to think about, and I really hope it's not true, but it may be time for a discussion about whether GOP lawmakers are trying to deliberately sabotage the economy to help their midterm election strategy," Steve Benen wrote.

Do Republicans actually want the economy to fail? Greg Sargent says they just want the government to fail, and they don't care if they take out the economy in the process. Ezra Klein says they've just deceived themselves into believing that tackling the deficit is more important and responsible.

I think Republicans don't want to hurt America, but I also think they literally don't give a shit about the poor and unemployed. Philosophically, Republicans are not concerned about a huge and growing underclass of desperately impoverished people, and instinctively they just dislike the unfortunate. That's why Orrin Hatch want's to drug test the unemployed.

Republicans don't hate America, they just don't care about lots of Americans. (And many of them don't count about half of Americans as Real Americans.) They don't want the country to fail, they just don't think it counts as a failure when millions of people can't find work or afford healthcare or buy groceries.

Quote:

For all of its eloquence and admirable candor, the unusual retirement statement by Indiana's Democrat Sen. Evan Bayh also revealed a stunningly keen grasp of the obvious -- for millions of Americans watching the playground antics of the elected clowns in D.C. with bipartisan head-shaking.

"For some time," Bayh said, "I've had a growing conviction that Congress is not operating as it should. There is much too much partisanship and not enough progress; too much narrow ideology and not enough practical problem-solving. Even at a time of enormous national challenge, the people's business is not getting done."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/02/evan-bayh-.html

I keep hearing that their actions in being "party of no" are because they WANT the country in worse shape...for the 2010 midterms or 2012 election or because they don't care about the people or for some other reason. Seems to me if they wanted to buck Obama's policies, offering some of their OWN would go further than just hoping the economy (and the country) "fail". The attitue is so cynical and exactly the opposite of "working for the good of the people" that it both astonishes and repulses me.

So what is it, do you think? Cynical political mentality, uncaring, belief making Obama fail is "good" for the country, or what? As far as I'm concerned, bringing the government to a virtual stand still has NO excuse.



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Monday, September 6, 2010 12:25 PM

KANEMAN


And the Dem's want it good for their profit....Wow, what a smart fucking hippie you are. Did that come to you in a deep sleep? How insightfull...

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Monday, September 6, 2010 12:29 PM

KANEMAN


I want the economy to CONTINUE failing. How can the GOP want what is already happening in future tense? You mean they want it to CONTINUE to fail under obama..

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Monday, September 6, 2010 3:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Continue to lie and spin mindless propaganda.

While it's true, some wanted the Dems to gain full power ( as they have ) of the WH and Congresss, so that they'd fail miserably ( as they have ) and then that would force most right thinking people to see how inept the Left is, resulting in an overwhelming return to power for the GOP.

Well, that's going to happen, but I think it's a costly way to vie for power. Sort of like retreating so far and fast, that the opponents extend themselves and show their weakness.

Like Patton said ( well, from the movie ) I never like to pay for the same real estate twice. The GOP had power, and failed. Waiting for the Dems to fail even worse.... seems pretty weak to me.

I love the Dems wackiest new claim, that all these American business owners are intentionally holding onto their $$, so as to watch Obama fail ( we're all racists, of course ). Though most of us 'racists' did vote for the guy....huh.

Now, when the Dems claimed we'd lost the Iraqi war, before the surge, it wasn't seen as WANTING the US to fail, was it ?


Of course it is. But they didn't want just Bush to fail, but ALL the US.




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Monday, September 6, 2010 5:04 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Now, when the Dems claimed we'd lost the Iraqi war, before the surge, it wasn't seen as WANTING the US to fail, was it ?

A prediction, jerkweed. And watch what happens next. To paraphrase a quote: "We'll be back."



The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, September 6, 2010 5:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


jerkweed?

No, brainless. Senator Reid actually said " the war is lost ". It wasn't a prediction, it was a g-damn statement of fact ( as he viewed it ).

The Dems voted for this war, before they turned against it. Then they were all hell bent on seeing us fail. For purely political reasons.

Jerkweed.




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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 1:33 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Where and when was there a vote on this war? I remember a vote authorizing use of force as a last resort, but there was no vote to go to war. Dubya usurped that authority from Congress, which stupidly gave it away too easily, but as you said in another thread, let's at least be honest about this: there was no "vote for this war". Nobody declared war, nobody voted to do so.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 4:10 AM

HERO


Do Republicans want the economy to continue to fail? No. Some do, but there are always some who seek the worst outcome to further their agenda or justify their beliefs. I note for the record some liberals also want the economy to fail because Obama has not done enough in their view.

Did Democrats want us to lose the war in Iraq back when Bush was President? No. Some did, but there are always those who seek a negative outcome to further their agenda or justify their beliefs. I note for the record that some liberals continue to want the war to be lost because Obama has not done enough in their view.

Republicans and Democrats have different ideas about what makes the economy work. Republicans believe that the economic program enacted by the Obama administration is wrong for America...and polling shows most Americans agree.

It is natural that given the complete failure of the Obama recovery program and the apparant long term damage he has done (in their opinion) that they would not be supportive of additional efforts along that path to failure. This is not obstructionist...its opposition. In this country one party is allowed to oppose the policy direction of the other and advocate their own ideas instead. In a few weeks we'll have an election and the American people can decide which way they think is best.

The choice is not complicated. The Democrats wants more spending, more taxes, and more regulation. The Republicans want less spending, less taxes, and less regulation. There are arguments for and against both plans. It is possible to make those arguments without personal attacks on the other side. It is unlikely that the arguments will be made without personal attacks on the other side because that is the nature of politics in America.

The economic policies of President Obama have failed and will likely get worse as more taxes and regulation come online from programs such as ObamaCare and lending regulations put additional burdens on small businesses while limiting their access to capital investments and credit.

On the other hand Bush's economic policies from 2001-2009 resulted in staving off recession in 2001 and 2002 and keeping unemployment low despite huge problems in energy and finance, war, and the complete destruction of a major American city. However, those policies and the failure to identify and correct the problems in the banking industry resulted in the origin of the present economic crisis.

Democrats are generally campaigning on a continuation or expansion of the failed policies of the past 20 months. Republicans are generally looking to take what worked under Bush, Clinton, and Reagan and apply them to today's problems without, hopefully, repeating the mistakes made during those three administrations.

Throw in a couple social issues, immigration, some name calling, and a couple tax scandals and you have the alternatives we all have to weigh...but I think most everyone regardless of party, or who they choose to vote for this year...most everybody wants this country to succeed during the 2nd half of the Obama administration no matter who gets the credit.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 7:43 AM

BYTEMITE


Well said, Hero. I think the goals of each party might be more complicated than you've represented, and I'm not sure about the successes and failures as you're reporting them, but you got two very important things right on.

1) Lots of people worried about the economy, and 2) lots of people wondering if the stimulus worked, is working, isn't working, etc.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 8:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The Dems have had such a hard time, and failed, BECAUSE the Republicans have stymied everything they've tried to do for the country. Threatening a filibuster on virtually EVERYTHING has made any forward progress extremely hard, if not impossible, to attain. If the Republicans had ever made any effort to work WITH the Democrats, things would have been quite different. Even legislation the Republicans THEMSELVES proposed or supported has been rejected and fought against; that speaks clearly to a desire to stymie everything, even good things, in an effort to worsen the situation.

Having control of the Presidency, Congress and Senate means nothing if the Senate is stopped from passing any legislation. The mistake on the Dems part has being their refusal to force an actual filibuster...in that they have been weak wooses; that's THEIR failing.

Democrats never said we had “lost” the Iraq War—one person did—by the way, they said we were losing it and SHOULD GET OUT. That is an attempt to keep us from a long, drawn-out war which we could never win, like Vietnam, not acting against the best interests of the country. How many soldiers have we lost since that time, and we’ve not “won” that war by any means; we’re pulling out, just as the Democrats urged back then. You really think we WON the Iraq War? If so, you delude yourself.

As to voting for the war, as Mike said (and the righties among us will no doubt ignore), there was no vote to go to war. Democrats and Republicans alike were lied to, pressured and misled into voting as they did; Bush took it from there. How many Republicans are against it NOW? NOW they’ve learned what a stupid thing it was to do and are against it, as did the Democrats long before.

Hero, the first two paragraphs well said and accurate. The American PEOPLE don't want the country to fail, for the most part, Republicans, Democrats and others. But what the politicians want is quite possibly another matter. Their actions speak louder than their words; and the "Party of No", their own given name, has made it abundantly clear that they intended to stop everything, bad or good; that doesn't show a desire to improve things, merely a desire to keep things going the way they were, which was disasterous.

I disagree that Democrats want more taxes, where taxes have been raised in any way; what the future brings is not relevant to their or Obama’s ACTIONS. As to less spending; every Republican President has increased the deficit, and the last one spent us into disaster. As to regulation; where did deregulation get us, exactly? Show me where it has improved ANYTHING—prove it, if you can. You left out that Republicans are in favor of tax cuts for the rich, as well, and where has that gotten us—and will get us, if the tax cuts by Bush are allowed to stand for the rich. You forgot to mention that Republicans are in favor of special concessions to big business, big oil, big pharma, which has done a lot to damage this country and will continue to do so.

Bush made himself look better by hiding the costs of the war from showing up in the budget. That’s not “less spending”, that’s “spending on the sly”.

These claims are talking points which have been reiterated over and over, but facts show they don’t hold. If necessary, I can provide facts and figures showing otherwise, but I’ve done it before and shouldn’t have to keep on doing it.

I disagree completely wih
Quote:

On the other hand Bush's economic policies from 2001-2009 resulted in staving off recession in 2001 and 2002 and keeping unemployment low despite huge problems in energy and finance, war, and the complete destruction of a major American city. However, those policies and the failure to identify and correct the problems in the banking industry resulted in the origin of the present economic crisis.
First and foremost, there was no “complete destruction of a major American city”! Several buildings were destroyed; the city stands; and the attack was utilized quite effectively by the Bush Administration to act unconstitutionally and deprive us of a number of our freedoms.

One can never prove a negative. But if McCain had won, how do you know things wouldn’t be worse? The myths of the Depression notwithstanding, the FACTS show that without the actions taken at that time, it would have lasted longer. Obama inherited the biggest mess this country has ever seen; that he hasn’t cured it in 20 months is a great talking point, but PROVE nothing except that he hasn’t curd it in 20 months. Believe what you will about the success or failure of Obama’s policies, only Republican obstructionism has kept them from being implemented properly. Again, obstructionism by demanding a filibuster-proof majority has stopped the country from moving forward; compromise in hopes of getting support has weakened what few things have been done.

How you can say Bush “saved us” from recession from 2001-2009 is beyond me. Another stat for the ages: The current recession is the worst since the 1981-1982 Reagan recession
Quote:

As the Clinton administration ended, the United States entered the new century and decade with the strongest, most-resilient, most-adaptable, and technologically advanced economy on the face of the earth, according to an analysis by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. Job growth had been enormous in the 'Roaring 90s' -- with more than 22 million jobs created in eight years. Median incomes were rising, poverty rates were at their lowest levels in decades. Business investment and new business formation were strong. The stock market was booming, capital markets were sound, and driven by the promise of new technologies, the United States was poised to enter a new phase of growth and development, with the benefits spread across its society.

The Bush administration began in 2001 with the passage of a $1.35 trillion tax cut -- a cut many economists and analysts felt was not necessary, given that the U.S. economy was already recovering from the mini 2001 recession. But the biggest problem with the tax cut was that it was tilted too much toward the rich and upper-income citizens -- Bush's political base -- and it almost guaranteed that, over time, broad-based demand would remain soft, and probably fail, in a few years.

Moreover, Bush's refusal to build on President Clinton's successful earned income tax credit (EITC) policies -- which literally lift millions of working poor / lower income adults and families out of poverty annually -- further prevented the bulk of society from benefiting as much as upper-income groups during his years.

President Bill Clinton favored the EITC because he believed that, "If you work hard, play by the rules, you ought to be able to live a decent life." President Bush disagreed with Clinton's policy, and sure enough, as his presidency continued, the decent life slipped away for many, typical citizens, including millions of working families.

Further, given a lack of legitimate engines of growth (new sectors), and the continuing march of globalization, low- to moderate-job growth -- job creation inadequate for sustainable U.S. GDP growth -- was almost guaranteed, as well, and this is exactly what transpired during the Bush years. President George W. Bush presided over the creation of fewer jobs in the U.S. economy in the modern era than any president since President Herbert Hoover, according to U.S. Labor Department data.

Further, a debt trap began to build. Excessive homeowner borrowing increased private debt, and that fact, combined with public borrowing to pay for defense spending for the Iraq War and the War on Terror -- Bush opposed tax increases to pay for the increased defense spending -- meant the United States was piling-up debt at a record rate, in just about every corner of its economy: private, public, corporate. At the end of President Clinton's presidency, the federal government was running a yearly budget surplus, and the national debt was about $6 trillion. At the end of President Bush's presidency, the national debt had grown to $10.6 trillion.

In short, Bush's tax cut massively benefited upper income citizens at the expense of both squandering the budget surplus achieved during the Clinton presidency and jeopardizing the nation's financial health.

My biggest quarrel with Bush was the environment, were again, his focus was big business and not the health of the country:
Quote:

Further, Bush had no energy policy, preferring to 'let the market determine the price for oil' and the kinds of cars auto makers want to manufacture. Bush also opposed Democratic Party efforts to make domestic vehicles more fuel-efficient. As a result, when emerging market oil demand and investor speculation pushed oil over $80 per barrel in 2007 and then over $100 in 2008, high energy costs squeezed disposable income further, almost guaranteeing a recession. The recession appeared, starting in late 2007, aggravated if not outright triggered by the U.S.'s third oil shock in 35 years. Further, sales of less-efficient U.S. manufactured cars and SUVs slumped badly. And by the end of 2008, Detroit's auto makers, devoid of stylish, high-m.p.g. vehicles, would need a massive government loan to avoid bankruptcy.

To be sure, the oil patch states of Texas and Oklahoma boomed, but every other region of the country suffered economically during the Bush years. Further, when the housing bubble burst and hundreds of billions of mortgage-backed securities went bad, the financial crisis began, spread around the world, and the U.S. recession deepened, with corporate revenue and earnings declining and job lay-offs mounting. More than 2.6 million jobs were lost in 2008 alone, and the unemployment rate, which stood at 4.2% when President Clinton left office in January 2001, had rocketed to 7.2% in January 2009, when President Bush left office.

There were some economic successes during the 'Bush 43' era: trade ties were expanded, exports rose, and inflation remained low/moderate through his eight years. And, as noted, one segment of society (upper-income citizens) saw an increase in wealth.

But those few positives in no way blot-out the Bush Administration's many failures: scant job creation, unemployment high and rising, declining real median incomes, record budget deficits, record home foreclosures, a large trade deficit, no energy policy, no health care policy, and increasing poverty rates, among other problems.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/01/15/the-bush-economic-legacy-the-
u-s-s-decade-of-descent
/

Check it out; the facts are all there. There are studies by many economists which show the truth.

Finally and most important; aside from “lower taxes, less spending (which is questionable given history) and less regulation”, exactly which policies have the Republicans offered? Those three (aside from spending) didn’t exactly help the country for the last nine years, what makes you think just those would “fix” it now? I’d LOVE to hear some viable suggestions from the Republicans; thus far we haven’t.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 10:54 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
First and foremost, there was no “complete destruction of a major American city”! Several buildings were destroyed; the city stands; and the attack was utilized quite effectively by the Bush Administration to act unconstitutionally and deprive us of a number of our freedoms.


I was refering to New Orleans and Katrina, not New York and 9/11. Somebody has a one track mind.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 12:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

The Dems have had such a hard time, and failed, BECAUSE the Republicans have stymied everything they've tried to do for the country.

Threatening a filibuster on virtually EVERYTHING has made any forward progress extremely hard, if not impossible, to attain.



Surely, you can't be serious. Barry's gotten every bit of major legislation he and his party has put forward. Where he's run into problems ( cap & tax , Stimulus 2 ) is with his own party members not playing ball.

Quote:



If the Republicans had ever made any effort to work WITH the Democrats, things would have been quite different.



They did. Barry was having nothing of it though.

Quote:

Even legislation the Republicans THEMSELVES proposed or supported has been rejected and fought against; that speaks clearly to a desire to stymie everything, even good things, in an effort to worsen the situation.


Barry and the Dems are the ones worsening the situation.








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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 12:27 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I was refering to New Orleans and Katrina, not New York and 9/11. Somebody has a one track mind.


Katrina was in 2005 though, so since you mentioned 2001 and 2002 just before that, I can see where confusion might come in.

I figured you meant Katrina but I wasn't sure.

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Tuesday, September 7, 2010 12:36 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

I was refering to New Orleans and Katrina, not New York and 9/11. Somebody has a one track mind.



His name is Rudy Giuliani.



AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, September 8, 2010 7:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


As to New Orleans, yes, given the dates mentioned, "Bush's economic policies from 2001-2009 resulted in staving off recession in 2001 and 2002 and keeping unemployment low despite ... the complete destruction of a major American city", of course that's what I thought about. It does tend to be what comes to mind when someone mentions 2001.

As to Obama getting "everything" through...no, he got weak, pathetic measures through, some of which may do more harm than good, because he and the Dems kept caving and compromising in the stupid hope of Republican compromise. If they'd gotten the message about the "party of no" from the beginning, I think things would be quite different. What we ended up with were half measures.

I still give them credit for at least trying to deal with all the third rails nobody else has even tried to TOUCH before, and hope they are just first steps to righting a whole bunch of wrongs in this country. That's how it works when tackling ugly issues, just like civil rights, which was weak and pathetic when IT began.

As to Obama not working with the Republicans, that is just plain hysterical, given the FACTS.
Quote:

Quote:

Even legislation the Republicans THEMSELVES proposed or supported has been rejected and fought against; that speaks clearly to a desire to stymie everything, even good things, in an effort to worsen the situation.
Barry and the Dems are the ones worsening the situation.

Then why did the Republicans propose/support those things in the first place? That sentence has nothing to do with what I posted.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, November 10, 2022 7:42 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

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