I believe this is what our right-wing friends here are missing, in my opinion. They're so focused on crowing about their "big victory" that they're not s..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

THIS is the truth of it:

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, November 8, 2010 07:32
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Sunday, November 7, 2010 10:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I believe this is what our right-wing friends here are missing, in my opinion. They're so focused on crowing about their "big victory" that they're not seeing beyond it to what comes LATER. There is already talk about shutting down the government...which worked so well for them last time...and I fear that, going in with an ideology but no specific plans, they're going to find out it's a hollow victory.
Quote:

It is in the nature of politicians, and political observers--mea culpa!--to overread election returns. The Democrats certainly did this in 2008: their mandate was to focus on an economy that Republican-style deregulation had brought crashing down (with a major assist from Larry Summers, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac), and also to bring an end to the era of Bushian arrogance overseas. The mandate didn't include an across-the-board imposition of the perennial Democratic wish list, even though health care reform and energy legislation, including a price on carbon, are very much in the long-term interests of this country. There was an economic crisis; Barack Obama was hired because he seemed cool and rational dealing with it during the fall campaign and John McCain did not.

This time, the mandate is more ephemeral. The national vote was probably no more than strong disapproval of the President's inability to get the economy moving again, aided and abetted by a general bedfuddlement about why Obama wandered off into health care and cap-and-trade when there was so much meat-and-potatoes work to be done. But the Republicans, especially the loonified precincts of the party are taking these results are an indication that the public wants to do everything from repeal health reform to privatize social security. In such moments, clever politicians retreat to the ancient tactic of jujitsu--use your opponent's momentum drive him off a cliff.

Frank Rich has a good jujitsu idea for the President in his column today. Put the spotlight on the Tea Party leaders, bring them to the White House, ask them to make specific proposals, publicize just exactly what people like Jim DeMint and Michelle Bachmann want to do. Bill Clinton did a version of this in 1995: he let the Republicans try to set the budget agenda during the first nine months of the year, let them overreach, which they did, culminating in their disastrous shutdowns of the government in September and again in December.
Quote:

(more at http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/11/07/the-wages-of-ignorance/#ixz
z14d2xi7Vl
)

Our RWAs here will no doubt say unpleasant things and crow about how they "slaughtered" the Dems, but I don't think THEY have any specific plans for fixing the ills of the country either...SPECIFIC plans, that is, not just talking points.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Sunday, November 7, 2010 10:19 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



It was Clinton who shut down the Gov't.

Don't ever be fooled into thinking otherwise.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Sunday, November 7, 2010 10:43 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Niki

I know a lot of people fear a rise in fascism, a sweeping of the right wing to power. What they forget is that Hitler got his popular support because he FIXED THE ECONOMY for the, literally, starving masses. The TeaBaglicans are not about to do that. Their blind ideology will lead them to make things worse, and their support will evaporate in all but the nuttiest.

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Sunday, November 7, 2010 10:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...




Your revisionist history is sometimes hysterical.
Quote:

The 1995 shutdown of the United States federal government was a major political crisis in which the U.S. federal government, as a result of a failure to pass a budget bill, stayed non-essential services from November 14 through November 19, 1995 and from December 16, 1995 to January 6, 1996.

When the previous fiscal year ended September 30, the president and the Republican-controlled Congress hadn't passed a budget. A majority of Congress members wanted additional cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, education, environmental controls, and the EITC.

To keep the government running in times of deficit, it is necessary to increase the limit of debt that the Treasury Department is authorized to accrue. Newt Gingrich threatened to refuse to raise the debt limit, putting the country in default.

On November 13, major players on both sides, including Vice President Al Gore, Dick Armey, and Bob Dole, met once more to try resolving the budget. In response to a discussion on Medicare, Clinton writes: "Armey replied gruffly that if I didn't give in to them, they would shut the government down and my presidency would be over."

DeLay writes in his book No Retreat, No Surrender:
Quote:

"He told a room full of reporters that he forced the shutdown because Clinton had rudely made him and Bob Dole sit at the back of Air Force One... Newt had been careless to say such a thing, and now the whole moral tone of the shutdown had been lost.
Gingrich's complaint resulted in the perception that he was acting in a petty, egotistical manner.

Wikipedia

Let's see, WHO shut down the government, again? You can try, but you can't revise history.

They're talking about doing it again, too:
Quote:

“I think there’s an understanding that the mood of the nation has changed in such a way that there is not going to be toleration of business as usual. If that means shutting down the government, so be it. I mean, we’ll do what it takes,” Joe Miller says.
Quote:

Quote:

There will be no compromise on repealing Obamacare. There will be no compromise on stopping Democrats from growing government and raising taxes," Pence told conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt Thursday evening. "And if I haven’t been clear enough yet, let me say again: No compromise."
Pence said his party wouldn't compromise on issues like spending or healthcare reform, two of the weightiest items on Congress's agenda next year, when the Republicans control the House.

Now, I don't believe that the Republican leadership thinks shutting down the government would be a good idea. It's that the base is going to demand it. Indeed, Pence made that statement in response to conservatives who were furious because Senator Judd Gregg conceded the obvious reality that repealing the Affordable Care Act is not a realistic goal.

The problem for the Republican leadership is that that base is whipped up into a frenzy -- a frenzy they themselves have helped foment -- and one characteristic of this frenzy is a belief that the party leadership is prepared to sell them out. Nowm the dynamic over the next two years, assuming Republican control of the House, is that the GOP is not going to be able to get its agenda passed because it will require President Obama's signature. That means no repealing the ACA, no passing new tax cuts, etc. That leaves two options: compromise with Obama and pass bills they don't like, or shut down the government.

It seems clear that the base is not in a mood to accept compromise. And House Republicans fear their base more than anything else, because most of them are far more vulnerable to losing their seat via a right-wing primary challenge than any other way. I'm sure the Republican leadership would love to win the House and convince their base that the next two years will be about keeping the status quo, blocking appointments, maybe throwing some sand in the gears of government and tying up the executive branch with investigations, and then hopefully working on a positive agenda if they can win the presidency in 2012. I just don't think they can get the base to accept that, because it's going to mean passing budgets with large deficits that keep the ACA in place (or budgets with smaller deficits that include a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes, which would be worse).

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/78618/why-republicans-will-shut
-down-the-government



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, November 7, 2010 11:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Nah, they won't really DO it, cept maybe as a gesture, and you know why ?

Cause it'd be damn fuckin funny if they *DID*, and no one who really matters (i.e. other than Gov-Bot trough-feeders) even noticed!

Might lead to some hard questions about why we need em, you see - in fact it was the Pontiac Police Depts threat to remove themselves from the street which caused the persons of that city to think that might actually be a GOOD idea...

And fire the whole fucking department, entire.

Hmm, speakin of helping your opponent right off a cliff... heh heh heh.

-F

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Sunday, November 7, 2010 12:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Niki,

Clinton got w/ the unions and colluded w/ them to shut down the gov't.

They'd get the employees to cry to the media, and the public opinion would then paint the GOP as being meanies and Newt as the Grinch who stole Christmas.

Only it was a distortion of what really went on, much like the media distorted what really went on in New Orleans.

And I didn't need to run to google or resort to cut/ pasting entire articles to make my point.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Sunday, November 7, 2010 12:31 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I dunno, Frem. It's being discussed that they thought it didn't work before because they didn't hold out long enough (!), and it WOULD affect millions. If they're going to be determined not to compromise on ANYTHING, they'll try to stop funding of stuff; if the Dems don't cave in, you've got a stalemate.

Raptor: You're an AFAF, that's all. No sense trying to talk sense to you.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, November 7, 2010 12:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Raptor: You're an AFAF, that's all. No sense trying to talk sense to you.


Always Free, America First ?

yeah, I guess that fits. Thanks !




"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Monday, November 8, 2010 2:22 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

And I didn't need to run to google or resort to cut/ pasting entire articles to make my point.



Translation: "I could find absolutely nothing anywhere that supports this idiotic belief, but I'm sticking to it anyway!"


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Monday, November 8, 2010 3:34 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
The 1995 shutdown of the United States federal government was a major political crisis in which the U.S. federal government, as a result of a failure to pass a budget bill, stayed non-essential services from November 14 through November 19, 1995 and from December 16, 1995 to January 6, 1996.



And it wasn't that much of a big deal. Many Federal employees got basically long Thanksgiving and Christmas vacations and eventually got paid for their time off. Unfortunately for me, I was classified as essential personnel and had to work.

This used to be pretty much a yearly thing for Federal employees and bureaus. The Budget for our organization would sit in Congress until the end of September, and we'd get the word to prepare lists of essential and non-essential employees in case of a shutdown. Then Congress would pass a continuing resolution for a few days, which kept everyone working, but didn't allow money for equipment or supplies. This could go on until the end of December. A very few times there'd be a couple of day gap between continuing resolutions and some folk would get a day or two off, with pay.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, November 8, 2010 6:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer, I didn't know it was such a common occurrence. That puts it almost in the category of California's never-on-time budget, which is a shame. It's worse here, and I'm hoping (have to look it up) that the measure passed here which requires that if the budget isn't on time, the legislators lose their pay until it's done PERMANENTLY. That's more appropriate; it wouldn't be as much so in Washington, where people have to be pretty wealthy independently to BECOME a legislator, but it's just as stupid.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Monday, November 8, 2010 7:12 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

And I didn't need to run to google or resort to cut/ pasting entire articles to make my point.



Translation: "I could find absolutely nothing anywhere that supports this idiotic belief, but I'm sticking to it anyway!"


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.




Observation: "You have absolutley no opinion of your own, so you will troll Aurapt's posts with Nikki, because you are a stalker....and gay"

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Monday, November 8, 2010 7:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Omigawd, HE's a stalker? When's the last time you let a post by me go by without responding with a personal insult??? Particularly if I put up a thread, I KNOW the first response will be something idiotic and nasty from you, generally having nothing to do with the issue and always with a personal insult. It's become so regular I don't even have to bother reading the first response to me.

Pot calling kettle black, are we? Given, he does it to you, but it's no more than you do to a number of us!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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