This speaks to me:[quote]Looking for empathy and support? You're more likely to get it from a poor person than you are from a rich one, according to new ..."/>

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The Rich Are Different: More Money, Less Empathy

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, November 25, 2010 06:52
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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 11:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


This speaks to me:
Quote:

Looking for empathy and support? You're more likely to get it from a poor person than you are from a rich one, according to new research published in Psychological Science.
In a series of experiments, the new study found that lower-class people were better at reading emotions on others' faces — one measure of what researchers call empathic accuracy — than people in the upper class. "A lot of what we see is a baseline orientation for the lower class to be more empathetic and the upper class to be less [so]," says Michael Kraus, a co-author of the study and a postdoctoral student at the University of California, San Francisco.

Looking for empathy and support? You're more likely to get it from a poor person than you are from a rich one, according to new research published in Psychological Science.
In a series of experiments, the new study found that lower-class people were better at reading emotions on others' faces — one measure of what researchers call empathic accuracy — than people in the upper class. "A lot of what we see is a baseline orientation for the lower class to be more empathetic and the upper class to be less [so]," says Michael Kraus, a co-author of the study and a postdoctoral student at the University of California, San Francisco.

An earlier study by the same researchers found that those of lower socioeconomic status were also more helpful and generous, suggesting that it's not just empathic accuracy but empathy itself that may be enhanced by circumstance. "Coming from an environment where you're more vulnerable, you solve problems by turning to others," says Kraus. That increases empathy and strengthens social bonds.

For the new study, Kraus and his colleagues conducted three different experiments. The first involved 200 university employees, some with college degrees and some without; the university setting is one in which educational attainment is particularly linked to job status and can be used as a proxy for social class. When asked to look at photographs of faces and identify the emotions portrayed, those with only a high school degree did better than their college-educated counterparts.

This measure of empathic accuracy — "a person's ability to accurately read emotions that other people are feeling," says Kraus — is important because it is a key part of empathy itself: if you can't recognize what someone else is going through, it's hard to respond with kindness to their needs.

The second experiment involved college students who were asked to rate their own class status by placing themselves on a ladder representing various class ranks. In previous studies, subjective measures of class similar to this one have been found to accurately predict psychological and physical problems among lower status people.

In the experiment, two participants alternately watched and then took part in a hypothetical job interview with an experimenter. Once again, people who judged themselves to be lower class outperformed the those who identified as upper class in reading the emotions of their fellow participant.

In the third experiment, students were asked to compare their own class status with either someone at the top of the socioeconomic ladder — or someone at the bottom. People who compared themselves with a lower-class person, which made them think of themselves as having a higher status, were less accurate at reading emotional expressions. Conversely, those who were made to feel that they were in a lower class were better at reading emotions.

"I think [the study] is really well done and extremely compelling,” says Jamil Zaki, a postdoc at Harvard who studies empathy but was not associated with the research.

In addition to navigating lives that involve more social threats and vulnerabilities, the impact of power relations could also help explain why people lower on the class ladder might be better able to read emotional signals. When your job depends on knowing when the boss is angry, for instance, you're more likely to try to get better at reading him than he is to bother worrying about reading you.

"People induced to feel more power do all sorts of things that show that they are not paying as much attention to people and to the emotions of others," says Zaki.

More at http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/24/the-rich-are-different-more-mone
y-less-empathy/#ixzz16EmjNNCQ



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 12:58 PM

CANTTAKESKY


The way I understood the studies, the more power a subject perceived himself to have, the less attention he paid to emotional cues on faces.

So the news article headline, to me, is a bit misleading. It is not about money really. And it is not about empathy really.

It is, more accurately, about perceived power and attention to emotional cues on faces.

It makes sense that someone who is dependent on graces of more powerful people would pay more attention to emotional cues. It may not be empathy at all, but simply a survival tool we turn on when we feel powerless.

I wonder if we learned this skill as kids, watching our parents' faces carefully for approval, disapproval, what we can get away with today... ;)

Anyway, interesting studies.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 1:09 PM

WHOZIT


....unless you're a member of the Hollywood left or a Kennedy, or George Soros, or Keith Olbermann, or Nancy Pelosi, or Al Gore, or John Kerry's wife, or any other rich liberal then you're OK.

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 2:11 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I wonder if there's more we can do to villify the wealthy.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 3:52 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Well, if we really wanted to vilify em, we could always delve into how they got that money...

Ask the Carnegie family how many unionists had to die to make their fortune, for example.

But it's kind of idiotic to hold the people who didn't DO it responsible for that sorta thing, you don't get to pick who you're born to, sure.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 4:09 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Yeah, ever since 2001, whenever I hear a group singled out as being bad and fit to be messed with, I remember ole Gandalf talking to Frodo about Gollum.

The idea of judging people is terrifying and awesome. Not in the Bill and Ted awesome way, either.

Yet there are people who would do it in an instant. Take X, Give Y, Mete out Z, all with the same level of trepidation associated with putting on socks.

I never yearn for revolution without thinking of that bladed lady. There she is in my mind: Severing friendly and unfriendly heads, innocent and guilty, deserving and undeserving, all with the uncaring lack of discrimination one might expect from gravity and steel.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 5:50 PM

RIGHTEOUS9




Yeah, Anthony we get it. By the way, not all of us with an issue about how much wealth rich people have think they are inherently bad people. They DO have disproportianate influence, and as a result, it is the policies they typically push that have done them such great favors and done such harm to the overall welfare of the nation. This should be pretty obvious to you, given that you seem to appreciate that our government is for the most part bought and paid for. I've got news for you, it's not you and me who are the title holders.


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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 7:16 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Looks to me like the topic should be "The Better Educated Are Different: More Degrees, Less Empathy"




"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 7:28 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Yeah, Anthony we get it. By the way, not all of us with an issue about how much wealth rich people have think they are inherently bad people. They DO have disproportianate influence, and as a result, it is the policies they typically push that have done them such great favors and done such harm to the overall welfare of the nation. This should be pretty obvious to you, given that you seem to appreciate that our government is for the most part bought and paid for. I've got news for you, it's not you and me who are the title holders."

Hello,

My dissatisfaction with government is manifold.

However, at no point does pointing at a group of people and saying, "Oh, they are different than us, They have no Empathy," seem like the start of something wonderful. It does not seem scientific or useful. It seems like the foundation of something vile.

Medically, there is a group of people who have been diagnosed with empathy problems. These people are generally labeled sociopaths and psychopaths. It would not surprise me to learn that sociopaths might even achieve a disproportionate amount of success in our world, because we reward that sort of behavior.

But there are two leaps I'm not prepared to make.

1) Rich people are all empathy-challenged sociopaths and psychopaths, very different from normal people.

2) I should get their stuff.

--Anthony



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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 11:15 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I never yearn for revolution without thinking of that bladed lady. There she is in my mind: Severing friendly and unfriendly heads, innocent and guilty, deserving and undeserving, all with the uncaring lack of discrimination one might expect from gravity and steel.


While I suspect you're referring to ye olde guillotene there, it struck me a bit amusing that the same phrase could be attributed just as well to Kali - who is not invoked lightly because it's quite similar to throwing a grenade, as you say broad strokes and indiscriminate destruction tend to do far more damage than folk realize, so when resorting to that, one should be damn sure the situation warrants it.

There's even a Meme/Trope for it, in fact.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodzillaThreshold

And yes, it bothers me as well when folk who haven't thought it through tend to call for things they do not fully understand the consequences of, sure...

That said, folk who are *actively* engaged in things detrimental to other people wholesale for the sake of their own profit - like Chertoff and his damn machines - ought to be called out and held fully accountable, all too many times when some robber baron does this shit, even if they do get stopped, they get to keep the money, and I find that objectionable too.

One of the worst ways we encourage this is by making fines for criminal actions on a grand scale rather pathetic in comparison to the profit gained - if someone makes three million in a scheme that pauperizes many people, and is fined a mere $30,000.00 and given probation, the only message we've sent is that crime pays when executed on a grander scale and from a higher social position, which in our society it does... to deny this is because we WISH it wasn't so does us no favors, and simply ensures that behavior continues.

If the profit from an unlawful act can be determined, they should lose *ALL* of it, with punitive damages beyond even that sufficient to discourage, rather than encourage, said behavior, with the proceeds used to repay the victims such as is possible.

I liken it to penalizing a bank robber with house arrest and a $3,000.00 fine, yet letting him keep the thirty grand he made off with - if you think "That's Ridiculous!", then GOOD, now consider that this is exactly how we "penalize" white collar crime done by the wealthy...

Pyschologically, Socially - this bitterness you're seeing Anthony is not really much different than the obvious historical parallels, peasant revolts against the nobility, which makes a lot of logical sense when one admits that we HAVE, essentially, reduced ourselves to Neo-Feudalism and starving peons don't really care about right and wrong any more than Robespierre did.

They don't care a whole lot more about collateral damage, either - and perhaps the folks up at the top of our society who helped bend it in this direction on purpose shoulda thought about historys lessons before they did that, neh ?

When it comes to our society - there ARE no innocents, it's all a matter of just how much guilt, and for what, each of us bears.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, November 25, 2010 1:48 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Pyschologically, Socially - this bitterness you're seeing Anthony is not really much different than the obvious historical parallels, peasant revolts against the nobility, which makes a lot of logical sense when one admits that we HAVE, essentially, reduced ourselves to Neo-Feudalism and starving peons don't really care about right and wrong any more than Robespierre did.

That's what I'm seeing too.

I think the experiments are ok. But the author of the article is slanting their interpretations to confirm bias (and bitterness) against the wealthy..

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Thursday, November 25, 2010 6:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Yeah, Anthony we get it. By the way, not all of us with an issue about how much wealth rich people have think they are inherently bad people. They DO have disproportianate influence, and as a result, it is the policies they typically push that have done them such great favors and done such harm to the overall welfare of the nation.
Quote:

Pyschologically, Socially - this bitterness you're seeing Anthony is not really much different than the obvious historical parallels, peasant revolts against the nobility, which makes a lot of logical sense when one admits that we HAVE, essentially, reduced ourselves to Neo-Feudalism and starving peons don'r really care about right and wrong any more than Robespierre did.


Yup.




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, November 25, 2010 6:52 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:



Yup.





Hello,

"... and so here's how we're going to change the system to make it equal for everyone, without treating any person or class of people different from any other person."

GO!

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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