The Christian Left by TheHappyTrader

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Christian Left

POSTED BY: THEHAPPYTRADER
UPDATED: Friday, December 3, 2010 08:46
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Thursday, December 2, 2010 8:12 AM

We hear all manner of negative things regarding the "Christian Right" and it perpetuates the stereotype that Christians are inherently super conservative and purposefully ignorant. But what about the Christian Left? Does that exist? My aunt (who's very liberal) showed me a website about it.

http://www.thechristianleft.org/

I'm normally not a fan of associating the religion I love with something as corrupt as politics, but I gotta admit, I really like most of what's on their site. Especially things like

Quote:
The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious. The Christian Left maintains that such a stance is relevant and important. Adhering to the standard of “turning the other cheek,” which they believe supersedes the Old Testament law of “an eye for an eye,” the Christian Left often hearkens towards pacifism in opposition to policies advancing militarism.

and

Quote:
Bottom Line: We welcome ALL to their place at God’s table, just as they are. All means ALL. No exceptions. We reject all attempts to define our Faith by the two wedge issues of Gay Marriage and Abortion.

Any of y'all ever heard of the Christian Left? What do y'all think of it?

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 8:44 AM

MALACHITE

Sounds good to me -- though I would find a better verse than "turn the other cheek" to justify military pacifism since I think "turn the other check" is contextually more related to not getting tangled in legal issues. How about, off the top of my head, "... Overcome evil with good", taken from Romans 12 if I'm remembering right.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 8:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ooo, I gotta check that out. Christianity isn't my thing, but I liked the excerpts you mentioned and it might be interesting to explore. Thanx!

And yes, "Christian right" IS a term to describe those with closed minds and ideologies, for ME anyway. That they call themselves such, that they don't seem to believe in the things (at least in practice) that I thought Christianity was pretty much about, and that they seem to consider lack of education a virtue, among other things (as well as their desire for power), made it a generalized term for me, and I consider someone who is conservative in thought and Christian in religion NOT "Christian right". Right or wrong, that's how I've come to think about it.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 9:22 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

I'm a big fan of the 'turn the other cheek' verse. I just wish there was a corresponding one in Islam.

Back when I was a Christian I kind of despised liberals like these. Now I'm a liberal and not a Christian; but bizarrely I still feel like these guys aren't doing it right...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 9:36 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Of course there is a Christian "Left". These are the pastors, reverends, etc. and their flocks that advocate and assist legal and illegal immigrants, advocate and assist the homeless and the poor, and many other groups of people including sick and terminally ill children of all faiths. Christianity itself has never really waivered from it's ideals of brotherly love; it's some Christians that sometimes seem to have forgotten what it means to be a Christian. Of course sometimes the tenets of Christianity seem to clash with the modern-day dangerous realities we face. It can often be a conundrum.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 10:31 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Any of y'all ever heard of the Christian Left? What do y'all think of it?

I consider myself a left Christian. I used to be a Left Fundie, which was almost unheard of, but I knew others like me. Not a lot, but they're out there.

I don't believe in pre-marital or extra marital sex, but I don't believe in judging those who do. I am personally prolife and believe abortion is murder; but I always vote pro-choice because I don't get to force my religious beliefs about conception on other women. I don't believe homosexuality is a sin, and believe in gay and transgendered equality, including legalizing gay marriage and allowing gays in the military. I believe in legalizing all drugs and prostitution, though I don't drink alcohol or even coffee. I'm a pacifist philosophically, in that I believe all homicide is morally wrong; but again, I don't judge those who believe otherwise. I want to see corporate welfare and military welfare taken down before daring to touch social welfare. I prefer universal health care to mandatory insurance coverage.

I think God doesn't hate anybody. I don't believe in judging people, period.

Is that Left enough?

Usually, people say it's not Christian enough.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 12:47 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I work with a whole lot of Christian lefties (and Jewish ones as well). They are pretty okay in my book.

I was raised as a Catholic when the Church was its most liberal, post Vatican 2. There were many priests and nuns who were fantastic people in my view, tolerant, into social justice and really concerned with injustice in the world and willing to take action. Then the conservatives reclaimed their vice like grip and all that hope that that institution could be a force for good in the world was dashed. Back with the intolerance and superstition, power and cover ups, supporting the status quo.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 2:40 PM

CATPIRATE

Niki2, Christianity isn't to be afraid of. Jesus was a real man. It takes a man to deal with the Roman Empire. Now the first 2 hundred years was some cool religon. Ya had the gnostic view from Egypt the more spiritual side, the mushroom eating followers with mind expansion you can see mushrooms in some of the renaisance art, and the Paul's view more for simple people that could understand. I don't think Jesus would get upset with Paul he brought change to Greece. Jesus taught true meanings to his apostles in private. I really like the Christian Faith. But make no mistake I don't talk to fundementalists in a disperging way. They take there view to heart. If there not on Niki2s level just let them have there view till they grow alittle.

When North Korea water boarded James Bond no one said a damn thing about it. Wikileak that.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 2:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Another reason why I'm an atheist.

Quote:
We’re not ‘Communists’ or ‘Marxists’ either. We reject all such labels. We will not be profiled or pigeonholed and we will not ‘Be Quiet.’ We’re Christians. We’re Liberals. Please get used to it. Thank you. ;>)

Yeah, you're communist and / or Marxists. Feign indignation and declare your innocence all you want. Not impressed.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 3:36 PM

DREAMTROVE

CTS,

You're pretty solidly to the right of me, so it's not very left. You might be to the left of some of the christian right. You're about as left wing as Ron Paul. Actually, you're a pretty good political match for him now that I think about it.

I don't know if you missed this one, but mandatory private insurance is what the the democrats just passed back here, that's why the backlash. If they'd actually passed the public option, I don't think there would have been many unhappy people.

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 3:47 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I don't know if you missed this one, but mandatory private insurance is what the the democrats just passed back here,

I think the democrats might say they only passed it because the republicans wouldn't let them pass anything else.

But yes, that is why I put it on the list. I am left of that bill for sure.

And yes, Ron Paul's a good match for me. The only thing I disagree with him on is immigration.

I'm all about open borders (a la Ellis Island), baby. And birthright citizenship. How's that for left? :)

Quote:
You're pretty solidly to the right of me, so it's not very left.

You're not a Christian, so you don't count as a measuring stick on this thread. :P

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Thursday, December 2, 2010 5:15 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I don't know if you missed this one, but mandatory private insurance is what the the democrats just passed back here,
I think the democrats might say they only passed it because the republicans wouldn't let them pass anything else.

But yes, that is why I put it on the list. I am left of that bill for sure.

And yes, Ron Paul's a good match for me. The only thing I disagree with him on is immigration.

I'm all about open borders (a la Ellis Island), baby. And birthright citizenship. How's that for left? :)

Quote:
You're pretty solidly to the right of me, so it's not very left.
You're not a Christian, so you don't count as a measuring stick on this thread. :P

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

Okay,

First, they *could* have passed the public option, but Harry Reid said it would be immoral to force the vote using reconciliation, only to then turn right around and use it on the very next bill, which was the forced insurance.

This was an internal-democrat dispute.

I'm not sure the democrats could as left

Ron Paul is on the immigration thing? What a shame. The last thing I heard from him on it was that Americans should move to Peru, I guess you're a pretty good match for him.

I think it's unfortunate that people are falling for this totalitarian close the borders xenophobia. It shows how intensely retarded we are. First: Keep everyone out is a policy of keep everyone in. Second: Who cares who comes in? I mean really. You can't live on the same 2 million square miles with another mexican? what about the 45 million latinos that are American citizens? It's insane.

Today I came up with this radical notion: Abolish citizenship. America could be a nomansland. Anyone could be here, work here, etc. It wouldn't matter where they were from.

Think about it. It's sort of how we work anyway. What makes me a New Yorker? I'm not from here. I wasn't born here, I didn't even go to school here. I've lived here many many years, but I was a Kentuckian. I can be one again. If I live somewhere, I pay property tax there, if I work somewhere, I pay state income tax there. If I buy something, I pay sales tax there. But all of this is done without any New York citizenship. I don't see that it's at all necessary. At least, inside the US. Maybe when you travel, you need a passport. But really, it seems pointless. Nothing in the running of actual govt. requires citizenship.

NY has its own healthcare program which is already better than Obamacare. We pay for our own schools, there are universities everywhere, and we could do without this Federal Govt. anyway.

But wait a sec. If Arizona can set its own immigration policy... can we do the same in the other direction? We could be like New Zealand ;) A back door into America. Open immigration to NY. Then go wherever you want.

I was avoiding Sig's thread 'cause I think she's had a rough time and didn't want to argue about Mexico, but actually, I think we could be more like Mexico, it wouldn't be a bad thing. We need to be less paranoid, and we need to be less egotistical about this nation. It's a nice piece of land, that which hasn't been fracked, and it has some nice people. It has a lousy govt, and it is as someone just said, falling way behind.

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Friday, December 3, 2010 5:46 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"I was avoiding Sig's thread 'cause I think she's had a rough time and didn't want to argue about Mexico, but actually, I think we could be more like Mexico, it wouldn't be a bad thing. We need to be less paranoid, and we need to be less egotistical about this nation. It's a nice piece of land, that which hasn't been fracked, and it has some nice people. It has a lousy govt, and it is as someone just said, falling way behind."

Hello,

I wouldn't want to be more like Mexico. We have already acquired the best part of Mexican culture through Mexican-Americans. I'd rather be a better U.S.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Friday, December 3, 2010 8:13 AM

DREAMTROVE

Anthony

Yes, I didn't expect it to be a majority opinion, but Mexico it's spending 90% of its tax revenue on a pointless war in the middle east. I can think of better models for a country than Mexico, but I can also think of worse ones. I have little hope that the US will reform and become something better than it is. Culturally, maybe, but not as a govt.

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Friday, December 3, 2010 8:17 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I'd rather be a better U.S.

Me too.

If it ever happens, let me know. I'll come back.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Friday, December 3, 2010 8:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Cat, I don’t think I ever indicated I was AFRAID of Christians or Christianity. I’ve known many, and many really good ones; I guess for me it’s those who seek power over others who piss me off, and they only “scare” me in that if they got the power they want, they’d use it to control people (as in legislation). But I’m not “afraid” of Christianity in any way. So I’m not sure what you mean. Maybe it's a snark, but if so, I missed it.

By the way, I’m quite happy to let anyone believe whatever they do in peace. I’ve not HAD “peace” from some proselytizing Christians, some prejudiced (usually Born-Againers), or the Mormon clergy (long story), but it’s not what they BELIEVE that bothers me, it’s that they can’t let me believe what I do, and sometimes get aggressive about it.

Quote:
If they'd actually passed the public option, I don't think there would have been many unhappy people.

To me the more accurate statement would be “Dems wanted the public option, they caved to Republican obstructionism and ended up passing a bad bill”. I don’t think the public option was an “if”; I don’t think it ever had a chance in hell, but I’m pretty convinced it’s what the Dems WANTED. (Ooops, I see CTTS made my point in the very next post.)

Okay, I agree with DT as to Mexico in these respects:

Quote:
We need to be less paranoid, and we need to be less egotistical about this nation

I imagine there are aspects of EVERY country we could learn from, as far as that’s concerned. I know it’s not what the thread is about, but it’s valid nonetheless.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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