They won't let it go... by Niki2

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They won't let it go...

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 2, 2011 17:57
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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:45 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell just announced in his party's private weekly lunch that he intends to offer health care repeal legislation as an amendment to an FAA bill currently on the floor, according to a GOP leadership source. (update: Sen. McConnell just told reporters he will go to the Senate floor shortly to lay out the specifics of his amendment.)

McConnell could formally offer the repeal measure on the Senate floor as soon as today. However, it is not clear when the vote would take place. The FAA reauthorization bill could be on the Senate floor for some time – possibly weeks.

Regardless of when the vote takes place, GOP sources admit the health care repeal legislation has virtually no chance of passing. If all 47 Senate Republicans vote for the repeal, as it appears they will, they would need 13 Democrats to reach a 60 vote threshold needed for passage.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/01/gop-source-mcconnell-t
o-offer-health-care-repeal-amendment-as-soon-as-today/#more-145314

I sure wish they'd knock it off and get down to some REAL business...and we have yet to hear what THEIR alternative might be, which would be nice but I'm not holding my breath. The Republicans seem to be totally stuck on being AGAINST everything, but proposing no viable alternatives.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:03 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/01/south-dakota-individual-manda
te-guns_n_816772.html

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

That is HARDLY "getting down to business", in my opinion, is totally stupid, has nothing to do with the Congress or Senate getting down to running the country, and besides; weren't the Republicans promising to be all about "jobs, jobs, jobs"? So where are the jobs?

Aside from which, they even say:

Quote:
The bill is reportedly meant as a quixotic attempt to protest the reach of the health insurance mandate set to be implemented by President Obama's health care reform, ruled unconstitutional by a Florida judge on Monday.

In other words, it's literally a "snark"...so much for responsible legislating.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:21 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I sure wish they'd knock it off and get down to some REAL business...and we have yet to hear what THEIR alternative might be, which would be nice but I'm not holding my breath. The Republicans seem to be totally stuck on being AGAINST everything, but proposing no viable alternatives.

ObamaCare, specifically individual mandates, is unconstitutional and should be repealed.

The Obama administration argues the govt can force you to do anything. Like buy a car. After all what car you buy or don't buy affects interstate commerce, they should not only be allowed to tell you to buy a car regardless of whether you want or need one...they should be able to decide specifically what car, where to get it, colors, options, price, etc.

I disagree as does a Federal Judge and at least 5 Supreme Court Justices.

Even Obama agreed in his State of the Union show that the legislation needed fixing. Republicans ran and won big on a 'get rid of ObamaCare' platform.

It seems reasonable that since this issue is clearly in play and likely to lose on appeal, why not scrap the whole thing and start over. Obama can propose a new plan, run on it in 2012 and if Americans like tons of spending, high taxes, and no end to govt regulation of Health Care...they can vote him in with a real mandate.

Its pretty clear that where this all went wrong for Obama was letting Pelosi and Reid run the show last two years. They pretty much jammed it through and said 'once its passed, we'll figure out what's in it and like it'. Not so. We saw what was in it, didn't like it, and voted in the folks who'd trash it.

Everyone says its a waste of time. The Senate wont pass a repeal, but no vote will be allowed to prove it. Obama wont sign it so why bother? The same argument holds true for the other side. If the Supreme Court is going to decide to through this law out, why wait and have all that expense in the meantime?

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:35 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/01/south-dakota-individual-manda
te-guns_n_816772.html

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

So, you're against an "unconstitutional" mandate for health care, but support one for guns?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:36 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Republicans ran and won big on a 'get rid of ObamaCare' platform.

In Teabagger fantasyland.

To everyone else, it was about jobs.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:57 AM

STORYMARK

Oh, and what happened to the conservative outrage over "activist judges"??

Oh, right.... it's okay when they're activists for your side. Gotta love hypocrisy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 1:33 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Story..

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

(wiping tears from eyes)

You really make me laugh some days.

Thanks

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 2:33 PM

STORYMARK

Thanks Wulfie, I figured you wouldn't actually be able to muster a response. You never disappoint.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 4:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

The Obama administration argues the govt can force you to do anything. Like buy a car. After all what car you buy or don't buy affects interstate commerce, they should not only be allowed to tell you to buy a car regardless of whether you want or need one...they should be able to decide specifically what car, where to get it, colors, options, price, etc.

I disagree as does a Federal Judge and at least 5 Supreme Court Justices.

Several administrations have argued that the federal government can force you to buy all sorts of things. Like illegal wars. Or illegal wiretaps. Warrantless searches. Kidnaping and torture. All done by YOUR government with YOUR money, and all while they tell YOU to shut up and don't make a fuss.

And you sure seem convinced that this case has already been decided by the SCOTUS. In fact, it hasn't even gone to
the SCOTUS.

Are you this cavalier with the facts in a court of law?

You should probably look into the Gonzales v. Raich SCOTUS decision, where the Court ruled that the Commerce Clause even effects you when you DON'T buy something, even if you want to grow it yourself.

This Space For Rent!

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Tuesday, February 1, 2011 8:41 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think the provision to force people to buy insurance is the most lamentable aspect of the insurance legislation.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 2:59 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I think deliberately introducing legislation that you have no intent to pass, do not even desire to pass, just to jam up the works ought to be charged as a misdemeanor, because in a political sense it's technically vandalism, and it wastes resources and government time and effort we pay for.

This is no different than someone on the job jamming up the machinery that does the job as a prank - at the LEAST they would be fired.

Not that I might not agree with the sentiment, after all, Kennesaw did pretty damn good, but not at a federal level and NOT as a petty prank, either.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 6:30 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Thanks Wulfie, I figured you wouldn't actually be able to muster a response. You never disappoint.

But he's consistent in his lack of ability to formulate a coherent response, you've got to give him that!

This Space For Rent!

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 6:36 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"I think deliberately introducing legislation that you have no intent to pass, do not even desire to pass, just to jam up the works ought to be charged as a misdemeanor, because in a political sense it's technically vandalism, and it wastes resources and government time and effort we pay for."

Says the avowed anarchist..

SO let me undersatnd this stuff.. some folks have no problem with the government forcing them to buy health insurance, having access and control to their medical care and medical records....

but OOOOHHHH NO, how dare they try and force you to buy an icky "gun".

Lol wow.

If nothing else, this staged attempt shows the true hypocrisy of some on the good old left.

Btw... Im pretty sure that ObamaCare will be gone by the time he is. Quote me if Im right, forget it if Im wrong.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 6:50 AM

KANEMAN

They should never let it go....They were elected in the biggest political thumping of all time...to stop this barry fellow and his merry band of liberal clowns.....I can't wait for 2012. It is going to make 2010 look like a good time for liberals. Liberalism is a mental disorder. You guys need to start using your brains more and Obama-ize less.

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 10:51 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Several administrations have argued that the federal government can force you to buy all sorts of things. Like illegal wars. Or illegal wiretaps. Warrantless searches. Kidnaping and torture. All done by YOUR government with YOUR money, and all while they tell YOU to shut up and don't make a fuss.

The Govt forced you to kidnap and torture someone? I mean they came to your house, kidnapped you and forced you to personally go and conduct an illegal search? Then they forced you to engage in an illegal war? Wow, you really do have problems.

Quote:

And you sure seem convinced that this case has already been decided by the SCOTUS. In fact, it hasn't even gone to
the SCOTUS.

While the case has not gone to the Supreme Court the issue has been decided before. It will come down 4 in favor and 4 against and Kennedy will be the deciding vote and he's voted against mandates such as this in prior decisions.

The other issue is does the removal of the mandates force the invalidation of the entire law. Unfortunately in their rush to push this through they forgot a clause that is usually included in most legislation that says if any part of this law is found unconstitutional then that part can be cut out leaving the rest behind. Oops, I bet some clerk has a red face for that one.

Quote:

Are you this cavalier with the facts in a court of law?

Yes, because I'm always right. I note for the record that I do not play basketball and am not a supporter of King Charles I, I am however carefree, non chalant and have often been described as jaunty.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 11:01 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Hardly. Liberalism is just a way of thinking and has often been a valuable one.

The Conservative ideas I hold most dear were once new and untested ways of thinking...liberal ideas in a conservative world of tyrants and kings.

Many liberal ideas are bad ideas, many are good ideas and the same can be said for conservative ideas. The whole point of setting up this system is to create a forum for debate during which the pros and cons of both sides of any given issue.

A conservative critique of a liberal idea can challenge them and force them to consider weaknesses that they may not have been aware of, likewise liberals often identify problems with the status quo that help move society forward towards new attitudes and ideas that can be both good and bad.

By constantly challenging each other we should be able to produce a stronger whole which while it may not eliminate mistakes of national judgement, it should minimize and resovle those mistakes without a dramatic loss of stabilty and progress like we're seeing in places like Egypt.

Our system has worked well, creating a world power from a loose coalition of backwater colonies in just over 200 years. It seems to me that we our at our best not when we have consensus and uniformity of opinion, but rather when we have respect for one another even as our passions divide us.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 11:14 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"I think deliberately introducing legislation that you have no intent to pass, do not even desire to pass, just to jam up the works ought to be charged as a misdemeanor, because in a political sense it's technically vandalism, and it wastes resources and government time and effort we pay for."

Says the avowed anarchist..

SO let me undersatnd this stuff.. some folks have no problem with the government forcing them to buy health insurance, having access and control to their medical care and medical records....

but OOOOHHHH NO, how dare they try and force you to buy an icky "gun".

Lol wow.

If nothing else, this staged attempt shows the true hypocrisy of some on the good old left.

If nothing else, doesn't this staged attempt to force people to buy guns via government mandate show the true hypocrisy of the right?

And you show your true hypocrisy in supporting such a thing. You, who SAY you're against the government telling you what to do - unless it's telling you you must buy a gun, of course. ;)

This Space For Rent!

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 11:23 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Several administrations have argued that the federal government can force you to buy all sorts of things. Like illegal wars. Or illegal wiretaps. Warrantless searches. Kidnaping and torture. All done by YOUR government with YOUR money, and all while they tell YOU to shut up and don't make a fuss.

The Govt forced you to kidnap and torture someone? I mean they came to your house, kidnapped you and forced you to personally go and conduct an illegal search? Then they forced you to engage in an illegal war? Wow, you really do have problems.

Okay, we all realize reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but maybe you'd like to go back and read what I wrote again.

Point out for us all, if you could, the part where I said the government forced me to take such actions. I said the government has forced me to BUY into such actions, to pay for them, to fund such actions when THE GOVERNMENT PARTICIPATES IN SUCH ACTIONS.

You really are not very smart, are you?

Quote:
Quote:

And you sure seem convinced that this case has already been decided by the SCOTUS. In fact, it hasn't even gone to
the SCOTUS.

While the case has not gone to the Supreme Court the issue has been decided before. It will come down 4 in favor and 4 against and Kennedy will be the deciding vote and he's voted against mandates such as this in prior decisions.

And in favor of them in other prior decisions.

Quote:

The other issue is does the removal of the mandates force the invalidation of the entire law. Unfortunately in their rush to push this through they forgot a clause that is usually included in most legislation that says if any part of this law is found unconstitutional then that part can be cut out leaving the rest behind. Oops, I bet some clerk has a red face for that one.

Again, you have it wrong. That clause is known as a "severability clause", and it WAS put in the bill originally, but ended up on the cutting room floor as one of the concessions made to Republicans and blue-dog Dems.
So blame them for the idiocy.

Quote:
Quote:

Are you this cavalier with the facts in a court of law?

Yes, because I'm always right. I note for the record that I do not play basketball and am not a supporter of King Charles I, I am however carefree, non chalant and have often been described as jaunty.

Congratulations on being able to look up the word "cavalier" and discover that I used it correctly in a sentence; yes, you ARE carefree when it comes to the facts. "Nonchalant" is all one word, though.

Now go see if you can find how to spell "intelligent". ;)

This Space For Rent!

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 11:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
I think the provision to force people to buy insurance is the most lamentable aspect of the insurance legislation.

Bingo.

Quote:
I think deliberately introducing legislation that you have no intent to pass, do not even desire to pass, just to jam up the works ought to be charged as a misdemeanor, because in a political sense it's technically vandalism, and it wastes resources and government time and effort we pay for.

Bingo again.

How do you figure there’s a lock on five Supremes voting to overturn the health-care law, Wulf? Nobody I’ve heard has said it’s a lock...or do you want to put up a video that somehow pertains (or doesn’t) to your claim?

Quote:
how dare they try and force you to buy an icky "gun".

Uhhh, Wulf, that was a “snark”, or didn’t you know? It was never intended to be taken seriously, it was merely a diss to the government. Which shows you just HOW far some will go to show their disrespect; they were quite willing to waste legislators’ time and constiuents’ money just to say “neener neener”. What a world...

Quote:
They were elected in the biggest political thumping of all time

As usual, Kane, you are totally irrelevant and given to lies. Immature as he may be, Wulf at least TRIES![qote] It will come down 4 in favor and 4 against and Kennedy will be the deciding vote

Yup, that’s the guess I’ve heard, but nobody can really KNOW until it happens, can they?

Quote:
Oops, I bet some clerk has a red face for that one.

I’ve heard/read several takes on this. One is that the Dems were using the lack of ability to sever as a tool, to say “take the mandate out, you lose the whole thing”, but it was certainly a very, very stupid move! The one thing most people really don’t like about the health-care law is the mandate; they should have left room for it to be severed.

Oh my gawd, Hero, that last post was fantastic! Well balanced, nonpartisan and very on point. Congrats; if we could all understand that, extremists and propagandists wouldn’t be able to divide us so easily and would be ignored in favor of COMMUNICATION.

How can you be so consistently...well, I'll leave out the adjectives...then suddenly turn around and say something SO reasonable?! Wow...I'm impressed. Much as it will piss me off to possibly see some of that appear in your signature, I'll take that chance and say it anyway. Kudos belong where kudos are due.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, February 2, 2011 5:57 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Wulfenwhiner, do you really THINK I don't have serious issues with the Government ordering me to do any-bloody-thing, no matter what that thing is ?

Oh, that's right, you DON'T think, you just gobble down and regurgitate some wanna be tyrants talking points all the while going on about things you don't even comprehend or really understand, like freedom and autonomy, because if someone like you really WERE left to their own devices without some dittohead to tell em what to do, they'd curl up in a ball and scream a tantrum.

IF I am forced under threat of violence and/or incarceration to finance something, I want that shit done *right*, curse your eyes.

Do Wrong, Right
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle956r32ys
Pragmatic Villainy
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PragmaticVillainy

Doing evil is bad...
Doing evil BADLY, is unforgivable!

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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