REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Situation in Japan an ENDORSEMENT of nuclear power

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Saturday, March 19, 2011 18:54
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Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:24 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


...Is the bold claim made by this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1367289/Japan-truly-disaster
-biblical-scale-right-worry-nuclear-angle.html


Quote:

Because the other real story, which is a much happier - yes happier - one, is how the Japanese nuclear plants have performed magnificently in the past few days despite being hit by a disaster vastly greater than they were designed to withstand.

What has happened in Japan should in fact be seen as a massive endorsement of nuclear power. But of course, people being what they are, it will not be.

Think about it: despite being faced with a Magnitude 9 Great Earthquake which knocked the whole island of Honshu several feet to the west, a 35ft tsunami and the complete breakdown of the infrastructure, a handful of rather ancient atomic reactors have remained largely intact and have released only tiny amounts of radiation.
There have been some dramatic explosions at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, but casualties have been light; maybe a dozen blast-injuries and a handful of cases of suspected radiation sickness. And remember: thousands were killed by the tsunami.



Forgive me for quoting a Daily Mail article, I only stumbled upon it... but it's points are well argued I think.

This BBC article is more toned down but argues a similar case: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12785274

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 6:08 AM

DREAMTROVE


I support nuclear power, but honestly, I think this is an endorsement of Japan. Everything is, really.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 7:15 AM

HARDWARE


It was an out of date design, but it still performed very well. Nobody designs nuclear generation stations to handle 9.0 quakes and tsunamis, practically at the same time. The miracle is that they didn't have more troublesome reactors.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 7:27 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


If they chemically burn and spew radioactive material all over will you feel the same? If they go critical in the nuclear sense and blow up over 100 TONS of fissible material will you feel the same? If plutonium escapes into the environment will you feel the same?

Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima indicate to me we simply do not build reactors to withstand all contingencies that may happen in their lifespan. And if we cannot manage to build for a 40 year lifespan, can we build to handle the waste for the next 50,000 years?


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Saturday, March 19, 2011 10:57 AM

DREAMTROVE


Kiki

We burn coal in America. Take a look at West Virginia some time and see what that industry has done to that state.

On balance, I think that nuclear is ecofriendly, by comparison. Sure, we could reduce our consumption, mainly by buying less, since most power is consumed by industry making stuff for us to buy.

Hydro is probably the least eco-friendly, and has killed off massive ecosystems here and in China.

Solar and Wind are the only truly ecofriendly power sources we have, but they have yet to generate enough power to run a competitive industry on.

I suspect what really determines how much power a country needs is its military, because if you can't run a competitive military machine, you get conquered, or your imperial possessions do.

Still, someone here made the point that the power plants could be placed somewhere less harmful. I don't think there is a good answer to that yet, but I think it's a good idea.

It was an outdated design, here's another approach:

Make the generators smaller. If Each nuclear generator were the size of a coffee can, then you might be able to run them inside a completely closed system, like underground I think Mike was saying. We have the technology to do that now, we don't need to have one massive generator, and it's probably more efficient to have lots of little ones, as they could be closer to their power draining industry, and you'd lose less power over the lines.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:09 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


yeah, really not that convincing, especially given the Japanese tendancy to face save, I doubt we really know how bad it really is, only that spraying down reactors with sea water is seen as a desperate measure by most analysts.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 6:54 PM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
If they chemically burn and spew radioactive material all over will you feel the same? If they go critical in the nuclear sense and blow up over 100 TONS of fissible material will you feel the same? If plutonium escapes into the environment will you feel the same?

Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima indicate to me we simply do not build reactors to withstand all contingencies that may happen in their lifespan. And if we cannot manage to build for a 40 year lifespan, can we build to handle the waste for the next 50,000 years?




The nuclear material stored at Fukushima simply can't go supercritical. Can't. C. A. N. T. Nobody runs a reactor on weapons grade enriched uranium. Can it catch fire and burn. Yep. Is it likely? No, especially since they are pouring water on it to keep the spent rods submerged. Crude. Destructive. Effective. Yes.

Chernobyl, early 50's design. Unsafe by design and mishandled by the operators. 3 Mile Island and Fukushima, early 60's design. 3 Mile failed due to a stuck valve and inattention by the operators. Coolant went too low and pressurized steam with radioactives was released. Essentially similar circumstances at Fukushima, without inattention by operators.

Yes, I will still feel the same about nuclear power. There are much safer designs now. Also, the amount of radiation released at 3 mile and Fukushima is approximately the same amount released by a single coal fired plant in a single day. Get your geiger counter and stand downwind from a coal plant and tell me what happens to the counter on its lowest setting.

We handle the waste the same way everyone but the US does. Recycle it back into nuclear fuel. That is why Fukushima had a spent rod pool. Periodically they take spent uranium and re-enrich it to reuse in reactors. Every country but the US does this. We have so much uranium ore laying about in natural deposits that it is economically unfeasible for us to do so.

None of this is super secret. The facts are there if you don't go to the media as the most accurate source.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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