REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Here we go again...

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, September 25, 2011 09:40
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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Republicans: "You want money to help those hit by disasters? Cut something, or we'll close down the government!" We've been here before, here we go again...
Quote:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Tuesday he's not sure a potential government shutdown at the end of the month can be avoided because of a stand-off between the House and Senate over how much to spend on disaster relief.

"I heard reports that Sen. (Senate Republican Leader Mitch) McConnell said there will be no shutdown," Reid told reporters in the Capitol. "I'm not that sure. I'm not that sure because the Tea Party-driven House of Representatives has been so unreasonable in the past. I don't know why they should suddenly be reasonable."

At issue is a short-term bill to fund government agencies through November 18 that the GOP-controlled House will vote on Wednesday. It allocates fewer resources to the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Army Corps of Engineers for disaster response than the Democratic-led Senate approved last week. Additional funds are needed because recent major floods from Hurricane Irene along the East Coast and wildfires in Texas exceeded the amount these agencies have left in their coffers to support recovery and rebuilding efforts.

Both the House and Senate are scheduled to take a weeklong recess next week and the current government funding expires September 30.

The GOP measure includes a total of $3.6 billion -- $1 billion in emergency funds available when the bill is enacted and another $2.6 billion to be budgeted for those federal response agencies for the 2012 fiscal year. The Senate bill that passed with bipartisan support last week includes $6.9 billion for FEMA and other federal agencies for immediate disaster relief and for relief in 2012.

Earlier this month, President Barack Obama asked Congress for a total of $5.1 billion in additional disaster aid — $500 million of which was for immediate relief.

In addition to the disagreement over how much money these agencies should get, House Republican leaders are insisting that the $1 billion in their bill that those agencies would get right away to cover recovery costs be offset with $1.5 billion in cuts to a loan program that helps automakers retool their operations to make more fuel-efficient cars. http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/20/politics/fema-funding/index.html?hpt=hp_
bn3
]

But apparently this time it's "cut HALF AGAIN as much as you want for disasters". Compassionate, ain't they? It is, of course, the Democrats' fault that there have been so many disasters. You betcha. And, of course, they're not using disasters as a political ploy to cut programs. Nahhhh...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


EPA and Dept of Education should have never been formed in the first place, so cut those, for starters. Oh, and do away with Dept of Agriculture, Homeland Security, and possibly a few dozen other federal programs.... that'll be a great start.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:00 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It seems odd that they are requesting 1.5 Billion in cuts to fund a 1 Billion program.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What's odd about it, Anthony? It's pretty typical, as far as I can see. They demanded cuts equalling the amount for other things, so why not go further? It's called "pushing the envelope" and they've been doing it quite effectively for some time now.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Hey, just following this administration's lead...

You never want a serious crisis to go to waste ?





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
EPA and Dept of Education should have never been formed in the first place, so cut those, for starters. Oh, and do away with Dept of Agriculture, Homeland Security, and possibly a few dozen other federal programs.... that'll be a great start.




Start with NASA, the NSA, the CIA, the Air Farce - none of them has a constitutional basis for their existence. There's also no requirement for a standing army, so that's about a trillion a year we could free up.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:56 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It is true that if we are strictly concerned with defending the United States, we could do the job with a military force merely a fraction of its current size. The risk of invasion could be mitigated by volunteer state militias, and a greatly reduced Navy would still be capable of securing trade corridors (if we ever decide to actually do that.)

The mammoth size of our military is only required to wage wars, not to defend the United States against an aggressor.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:02 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


You'll be happy to know that this legislation didn't pass, due to a rare combination of Democrats and Tea Party Republicans voting against it.

Quote:

The House demise of the measure was caused by Democrats opposed to $1.5 billion in cuts to a government loan program to help car companies build fuel-efficient vehicles. On the other side, almost 50 GOP conservatives felt the underlying bill permits spending at too high a rate.



http://www.wtop.com/?nid=289&sid=2531188

Of course now disaster relief funds for victims of Hurricane Irene and Tropical Storm Lee may run out early next week, but, hey, the Democrats made sure that the automakers get all their loans.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:41 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Lord, Geezer, how was I ever crazy enough to think you were more reasonable than Wulf or Raptor? I must have been out of my mind. You really think rejecting it because it insists on HALF AGAIN in cuts is unreasonable while the right rejected it because they wanted EVEN MORE? wow.

Of course, the rejections of funding for the 9/11 heroes unless an equal amount in cuts was provided is unimportant.

Right after they came to power, Tea Party Republicans demanded spending cuts of $5 billion to $6 billion a month as a condition for extending emergency unemployment benefits scheduled to expire for millions of Americans. Then in December 2010, they again held unemployment extensions hostage, this time to get Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy extended for two years.

When a massive tornado obliterated the town of Joplin, Missouri, Eric Cantor told reporters that if the disaster ultimately required the government to step in and provide aid, it would have to be offset by cutting spending on other federal programs (remember that one?).

Then an earthquake struck the town of Mineral, Virginia (his own district), and caused minor, but widespread damage along the eastern seaboard. Cantor said, "Congress will find the monies" to help victims, but that "those monies will be offset with appropriate savings or cost-cutting elsewhere."

During the debt ceiling debate they held the nation’s ability to borrow money hostage for more Draconian spending cuts to important social programs. After holding the debt ceiling hostage and costing America its perfect credit rating, Mitch McConnell said “he could imagine doing this again,” and indeed, he PROMISED Republicans would do it again. And hey, ho, look, they're about to do it again!

Of COURSE they're trying to kill a loan program for more efficient cars. If Republicans are successful keeping fuel-efficient vehicles off the roads, they maintain their record of supporting the oil industry. Gawd knows THEY're the ones who have something at stake in keeping our energy demands high. And hey, what if it DOES cost 10,000 jobs...jobs were never ACTUALLY high on their agenda anyway!

Let's get real. Republicans have learned an obvious lesson since they retook the House -- that they can control the agenda in Washington, and put popular government programs under attack, if and ONLY if they have some leverage over Democrats to play along. The government shutdown fight in April was their first victory. The debt limit showdown was their piece de resistance. They're just going on as they've been getting on.
Quote:

For the past two-and-a-half years, Republicans have used a relatively new process to take advantage of the American people’s suffering in order to benefit the GOP’s wealthy donors, and although it is legal, it is as despicable as any criminal activity imaginable.

The Republicans are punishing Americans with every round of budget and spending cuts, and in this particular case, whatever the final result, Americans will pay the price so the oil industry can sell more gasoline. If Democrats are forced to cut funding for the advanced technology initiative, disaster victims get relief but 10,000 Americans will lose their jobs as well as more fuel efficient automobiles. If Democrats resist cutting funds for the initiative, disaster victims end up suffering. Either way, Republicans demonstrate their abject contempt for all Americans except the wealthy, corporations, and the oil industry. They oppose increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans, refuse to eliminate oil industry subsidies, and block funding to improve America’s crumbling infrastructure and in the process, they are enriching their wealthy supporters at Americans’ expense. Holding disaster relief hostage to prevent fuel efficiency and kill 10,000 more jobs should be criminal, and Americans should be incensed at the callous disregard their Republican representatives continue displaying but they are not.

Republicans have accomplished nothing in the past two-and-a-half years that benefits 98% of Americans. They revel in Americans’ suffering so they can use them to hurt another segment of the population and they have been successful because Democrats are unwilling to stand idly by and do nothing. It is impossible to predict how long the American people will tolerate Republican damage before they rise up and say enough; one would think losing jobs, social programs, and disaster relief would be enough, but it seems many Americans are masochists who enjoy being decimated so the wealthy can prosper and the oil industry can continue making record profits.

America is becoming intolerable and very few groups have been spared from Republican malfeasance. Elected representatives are supposed to look out for and protect the people, but Republicans have shown they could not care less about people unless they are millionaires and billionaires. The Republicans’ hostage-taking is criminal and yet they continue with impunity. http://www.politicususa.com/en/disaster-relief-hostage this point, we have become a nation of hostages with no hope of ransom.

I loved the comments sent in to the above article:
Quote:

They are, in fact, an electoral minority who are governing by extortion, and it appears to me that they have made abusing “the little people” an end in itself. Perhaps it was the election of a black president that released their malice so virulently, or perhaps it was knowing the racism ingrained in the American public would make it easy to blame it on the black man in the White House that emboldened them. I can say only: Deal with them as one must with an abuser. Document, document, document every threat, every lie, every demand, and be prepared to confront them in the court of public opinion when they smirk and say, “Oh, nothing…”. Every abuser practices DARVO: Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Oppressor. It’s what they do when they accuse minorities of “playing the race card”, the unemployed and downwardly mobile of “waging class warfare”, women who want to live as free and equal human beings of “sexism”, non-Christians of religious persecution, and sexual minorities who want to marry of being “anti-family”. It’s what they do whenever they accuse whoever seeks to assert their own humanity of demanding “special rights”, and it is necessary to get past their presstitute enablers to make certain their intended victims understand exactly the peril they are in.
Quote:

A majority of the righties, tea baggers only watch FOX News and they hear the likes of Bill O’Reilly whining about with his taxes increased he may determine although he likes his job that its no longer worth it! BO also infers "if Obama increases taxes to 50%" (like it was under Reagan as I recall), and the FOX News audience is dumb enough to think a President can raise taxes! BO doesn’t tell them only Congress can raise your taxes and establish the rates. The GOP has the best lying machine around and if you listen to Mittens Romney it sounds like he’s FDR reincarnated and will do a better job at protecting Social Security than President Obama does. Also with the GOP being the Grand Obstructionist Party it causes people to tune out and low turnout at the polls tends to benefit conservatives. Wake up people and smell the coffee/tea!
Quote:

Oh, and I work with a tea bagger that complained members of Congress don’t pay into Social Security and I told her they changed that back in the 80's! The William F. Buckley’s were dragged, driven out of the GOP eons ago and we have pseudo, fake populists in the tea baggers.
Quote:

I know how Virginia can get money from the Republicans—it can change its name to Afghanistan, then Republicans will give it billions–no questions asked! Ohio could change its name to Iraq, then the House Republicans would pony up for some infrastrucutre spending.

http://www.thechicagodope.com/2011/09/15/ohio-changes-name-to-iraq-to-
get-federal-help/
, yup, yup and a big YUP!





Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, September 22, 2011 6:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Lord, Geezer, how was I ever crazy enough to think you were more reasonable than Wulf or Raptor? I must have been out of my mind.




Well, decades of hippy drugs certainly do wear on the brain. You've established that fact long ago.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 6:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Rappy took the short-cut and drank the kool-aid.


Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Friday, September 23, 2011 1:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Rappy took the short-cut and drank the kool-aid.





You don't even know what you're saying any more. Did you ever ?





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, September 23, 2011 1:28 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Rappy took the short-cut and drank the kool-aid.





You don't even know what you're saying any more. Did you ever ?



Jonestown you halfwit!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, September 23, 2011 1:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Yeah, you toss out insults, but don't really know why.

What 'kool-aid' am I drinking ? One of freedom ? Individual responsibility ? Having a different view than yours ?

Think, before you respond.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, September 23, 2011 2:11 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yeah, you toss out insults, but don't really know why.

What 'kool-aid' am I drinking ? One of freedom ? Individual responsibility ? Having a different view than yours ?

Think, before you respond.



Okay, I will walk you through this.

You said to Niki2 "Well, decades of hippy drugs certainly do wear on the brain. You've established that fact long ago."

1KIKI came back with "Rappy took the short-cut and drank the kool-aid."

As in the Jonestown kool-aid, the type that kills you, as in you are brain dead, which would be worse then just brain damaged.

It was a very witty insult that you missed.

Or as Foghorn Leghorn would say, your built to low to the ground son, the fast ones go right over your head.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, September 23, 2011 4:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Good one, both of you.

I adore it when they resort to snarking about my HIPPIE (would be nice if they could even spell it right) background. It's them waving a big, lovely red flag reading "I got nothin'". Makes me smile.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, September 23, 2011 6:30 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Republican, and now Tea Party Republicans, have been talking out of both sides of their mouths now since Plymouth Rock.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have been bamboozled, hornswaggled and downright bullied into choking their agenda. Anything that is anti-Obama, anti-Democratic - and in my opinion - anti-American. Now this, doesn't surprise me.

Is what I'm saying rhetoric or fact?

You betcha it's fact. Let's take the Debt Ceiling fiasco, hhmmmmmm. Fresh off taking majority after mid-term elections, they gang up on the Dems and arm-twist their way into a shitty "compromise" (Obama caved and I was sorely disappointed in the president). They shouted from the rooftops that the Debt Ceiling should not raised, that Federal spending was out of control, that "they" were now the bastions of fiscal responsibility. Cut spending, they said; cut government excess, they said.

REALLY? By a show of hands, could anyone tell me under which popular president was the Debt Ceiling raised 18 times.
And, between the years 2001 to Jan 2009, how many times was the Debt Ceiling raised? Anyone, anyone! (answers below).

In fact, the only president, in modern times, not to raise the debt ceiling was Harry S. Truman. Also fact: Obama has raised it 3 times since taking office, even though, as a senator, he opposed it in 2006. Ok, why now? What's so gorram important to the Tea Party and Republicans in 2011 that was not an issue at least 25 times prior to this year? Can anyone guess what important event is coming down the pike? An event so big that the whole country will be paying close attention to. I'll give you 2 hints: It's not Christmas and it's not the latest installment of Dancing with the Stars.

That's right, Boys and Girls, the general election of 2012. Votes, boys and girls, not concern for the country or economic woes; nor near government collapse; national pride; nor concern for the millions out of work; nor the millions without medical insurance; nor the millions affected by natural disasters. It's VOTES, that concern our fellow Americans who wish to remain in the driver seat - and in power, in control. The status quo must, at all costs, be maintained. This country is going down in flames and these guys are playing the "fiddle" to keep their privileged perches and gilded cages.

S.O.C.


Answers to the Debt Ceiling quiz: 18 times = Reagan. 2001 - Jan 2009 7 times under Bush.

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Friday, September 23, 2011 7:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, Shiny, right on virtually every point. Sadly, Obama and the Dems have been total wooses about it, but they've also been NICELY maneuvered into having little choice. As the articles and information I posted above shows, it's a pattern; they've figured out they can get away with whatever they want (or damned near all of it) as long as it's over something the Dems will be pressured into complying with: like taking care of the 9/11 responders, helping out the long-term unemployed, keeping the government going, disaster aid to suffering Americans, raising the debt ceiling, and on and on. They've been pretty sharp at it, and given McConnel's promise that he'd "do it again", it's pretty damned clear what their agenda is.

And, "here we go again..."; talk of a "partial" government shutdown looms, because as usual the Republicans made exhorbidant demands in return for something vital. All this will hurt them in 2012--if people's eyes start opening up--but given the state of the country, it still may be a good move. Makes everyone hate "the government", which they have used to their advantage pretty well.

They've played a pretty good game, and managed to damage working people, unions, women's rights and numerous other things along the way, but hopefully they will have overshot the mark and somehow we can get out of this. Hopefully...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, September 23, 2011 11:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Nickerson, you see, it's only witty if

A - it's even in the least bit relevant or true and
B - someone ELSE says it's witty first.


You failed on both counts. Sorry.

I would take the time to deconstruct the whole fallacy of your " joke ", and explain why it simply isn't applicable, but I doubt very much that you'd be able to follow. You're just not worth the time.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, September 24, 2011 2:58 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Nickerson, you see, it's only witty if

A - it's even in the least bit relevant or true and
B - someone ELSE says it's witty first.




Something can only be witty if "someone ELSE says it's witty first"? Really?

That was a pretty miserable failure, and quite a reach, Rappy.

A - Nick *IS* "someone else". Kiki made the joke, Nick tossed in a witty rejoinder. Ergo, it's witty if he said it was, because he's someone else.

B - By your logic - a thing can only be witty if "someone else says it's witty first" - nothing can ever be witty, the way you're applying your own twisted logic. "Hey, Niki said something, and Nick said it was witty." "Nope- doesn't count; someone ELSE has to say it's witty for it to count." "But Nick *IS* someone else!" "No, I mean someone ELSE, besides that someone else." "Okay, Kwicko said it was witty, too." "Nope. Gotta be someone else." Ad infinitum.

Quote:


You failed on both counts. Sorry.

I would take the time to deconstruct the whole fallacy of your " joke ", and explain why it simply isn't applicable, but I doubt very much that you'd be able to follow. You're just not worth the time.



In other words, as usual, you've got nothing. You spend hours here, nearly every single day, yet you don't have the time to explain yourself? I think it's more like you don't have the ability to explain yourself. That's the way it always is with you.


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, September 24, 2011 4:34 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Lord, Geezer, how was I ever crazy enough to think you were more reasonable than Wulf or Raptor? I must have been out of my mind. You really think rejecting it because it insists on HALF AGAIN in cuts is unreasonable while the right rejected it because they wanted EVEN MORE?



Lord, Niki. I was hoping that you'd think for yourself for a change - instead of regurgitating more clips from sites that reflect your prejudices - and see that the Democrats are playing politics with this issue just as much as the Republicans.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, September 24, 2011 4:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Actually, I DON'T spend hours on there,every day. If I DID, then maybe I would have time to tackle the brainless minutia that so often gets posted on here as 'coherent replies '. Lotta folks answering for others on here, for no real reason, other than to see themselves post.

1kiki made a inane comment about kool-aid, and nickerson felt it worth while to try to explain it. Simple cross up there, no big deal.

I GET THE JONESTOWN REFERENCE! Good grief, it's hardly obscure! But UNDERSTANDING it and acknowledging it as being valid isn't the same thing. Just as Liberals love to call conservatives 'NAZIS', when it doesn't apply. Oh, sure, I know what a NAZI is, and because of that, I know that calling conservatives NAZIs is ridiculous. If the entire premise of the joke is false, that doesn't mean I have no understanding of what 'drinking the kool-aid ' means, or what the NAZI party stood for.. it was just a lame attempt at humor.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, September 24, 2011 6:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer, I don't follow any particular website, as I've said before, and I avoid obviously slanted stuff like Huffpost and Turks most of the time. I start with CNN because their articles are written well, then I go on to Time, Fiscal Times, New Scientist, Christian Science Monitor (which is pretty damned good) and then the MSM. I read it in several articles, and whether or not you like it, it's TRUE.
Quote:

Hours earlier, GOP leaders pushed the bill through the Republican-controlled House in a 219-203 vote after adding a series of cuts vehemently opposed by their Democratic counterparts.
.....
One key sticking point is that the House bill requires that the $1 billion in immediate disaster funding be offset with $1.5 billion in cuts to a loan program that helps automakers retool their operations to make more fuel-efficient cars. Another $100 million would be cut from an alternative energy loan program that provided funding for [solar energy].[So to get his people to come through, it's now $1.5 billion PLUS another $100 million in cuts to offset $1 billion in DISASTER RELIEF!]

Last week, the Senate passed a spending bill with bipartisan support that would provide $6.9 billion for FEMA and other federal agencies, to be used both for immediate disaster relief as well as in the new fiscal year. The Senate version required no spending offsets.

One senior Senate Democratic leadership aide said Thursday night "We are looking for a real attempt to compromise, not just an attempt to appease their own people," the aide said.

Forty-eight conservative Republicans initially voted against the GOP measure Wednesday -- an embarrassing setback for Boehner. But they changed their minds when additional alternative energy spending cuts were added to the legislation, according to a GOP aide. In the end, 23 Republicans who initially opposed the bill flipped to support it, giving it enough votes to pass.

Boehner's struggle to control an unwieldy House GOP caucus has become an ongoing issue on Capitol Hill this year.

During the debt ceiling debate over the summer, Boehner had to withdraw his own plan for deficit reduction at one point when it became clear he lacked sufficient support within his caucus to get it passed.

This time, the speaker threatened members with pulling them from committee assignments if they failed to support the continuing resolution Wednesday, according to a Republican source who attended the GOP conference meeting.

The source, speaking on condition of not being identified, said Boehner "cracked the whip" at the Wednesday morning meeting and told Republicans bluntly they needed to back the measure or he'd go to the steering committee and start pulling committee assignments for members who didn't vote for it. The Republican steering committee approves member committee assignments.

Rep. Bill Huizenga of Michigan, a conservative freshman Republican who opposed the resolution, said removing the offset provision -- as Democrats want -- would be "more problematic for me and probably for more of the caucus." http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/23/politics/congress-fema-funding/index.htm
l?hpt=hp_t2
FACTS about the amount of money the Republicans (actually, the Tea Party neophites) wanted to cut, and how Boehner had to INCREASE that amount even to get them to tow the line (plus threatening them) are the FACTS. The rest can be argued, but how much they wanted cut--an unprecedented thing when it comes to disaster aid--are real.

Whether the Dems are playing games or not I can't say. Certainly they can be, they're politicians. But it's pathetic to argue that what they're doing is not just HOLDING THE LINE for once against the massive cuts the GOP has demanded in order to do ANYTHING. By doing so, you're saying that the Republicans refusing to pass anything that DOESN'T have cuts attached to it is just them playing politics. Sauce for goose...and who's rejected more things in the past two years than ever before in history? Hasn't been the Dems, who've compromised and compromised and compromised.

By now I truly feel sorry for Boehner. He's a politician, but he UNDERSTANDS compromise, and that compromise is how anything ever gets done. They've made his life hell and made him look weak, and that's a shame. By all I can see, he's being the most reasonable person on that side, and while the Tea Party newbies continue to balk at anything, nothing gets done. Given McConnel's promise to shut down the government yet again, blaming the Democrats would be funny, if it weren't so stupid.




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, September 24, 2011 7:02 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, I DON'T spend hours on there,every day. If I DID, then maybe I would have time to tackle the brainless minutia that so often gets posted on here as 'coherent replies '. Lotta folks answering for others on here, for no real reason, other than to see themselves post.

1kiki made a inane comment about kool-aid, and nickerson felt it worth while to try to explain it. Simple cross up there, no big deal.

I GET THE JONESTOWN REFERENCE! Good grief, it's hardly obscure! But UNDERSTANDING it and acknowledging it as being valid isn't the same thing. Just as Liberals love to call conservatives 'NAZIS', when it doesn't apply. Oh, sure, I know what a NAZI is, and because of that, I know that calling conservatives NAZIs is ridiculous. If the entire premise of the joke is false, that doesn't mean I have no understanding of what 'drinking the kool-aid ' means, or what the NAZI party stood for.. it was just a lame attempt at humor.



Yup, he definitely took that short cut!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, September 24, 2011 7:13 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

Yup, he definitely took that short cut!



Again, you show that you have no clue of what you're talking about.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, September 24, 2011 7:47 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

Yup, he definitely took that short cut!



Again, you show that you have no clue of what you're talking about.



AU you may be the best straight man of all time...or a complete and utter idiot.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, September 24, 2011 8:13 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I am straight. And I'm glad you didn't say 'udder'.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, September 25, 2011 2:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Geezer, I don't follow any particular website, as I've said before, and I avoid obviously slanted stuff like Huffpost and Turks most of the time.



http://www.politicususa.com/en/disaster-relief-hostage

http://www.thechicagodope.com/2011/09/15/ohio-changes-name-to-iraq-to-
get-federal-help
/

Yep. Not slanted at all.


Quote:

Whether the Dems are playing games or not I can't say.


Nor, apparently, will you spend 1% of the effort you do to find articles blaming the Republicans to see if the Dems are doing the same thing.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

ETA:

for an actual non-biasd report of the issue, try this. It wasn't that hard to find.

Quote:

Senate delays disaster aid bill until Monday

(2011-09-23)
(Reuters) -
By Andy Sullivan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate decided to delay action until Monday on a bill that would refill depleted disaster funds and ensure the government does not shut down in October as Republicans and Democrats remained at odds over the measure.

"Everyone once in a while needs a little cooling off," Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said. "We'll come here Monday and more reasonable heads will prevail."

The decision came after the Democratic-controlled Senate, by a vote of 59 to 36, rejected a version that had passed the Republican-controlled House of Representatives.

The standoff could easily last past Monday as Congress girds for yet another budget battle that could play out until the last possible minute.

The bitter partisan divide over spending that has dominated Washington this year once again threatened Congress' ability to pass even the most basic legislation as lawmakers squabbled over two provisions that account for a fraction of the trillion-dollar-plus bill.

Aid for disaster victims could dry up by Tuesday if Congress does not replenish a dwindling relief fund. Congress also must extend funding for the entire government to avoid a shutdown on September 30, the end of the fiscal year.

Lawmakers from both sides said the bill, which would keep the government running beyond the end of September and provide badly needed aid to victims of recent floods, tornadoes and other disasters, should not be controversial.

Democrats want to remove a cut to an electric-car program that Republicans included to partially offset the added disaster costs. Republicans say they want to make sure the additional disaster money doesn't add to the nation's fiscal woes, while Democrats point out that Congress usually exempts that type of money from normal budget rules.

The dispute throws into question lawmakers' ability to find common ground on the more painful choices they will have to confront in the coming months as a special bipartisan committee searches for trillions of dollars in budget savings.

"Any delay that occurs because of inaction in the Senate will only imperil needed disaster relief for these thousands of families all across our country," House Speaker John Boehner said at a news conference.

Boehner and other Republican leaders have promised to lower the temperature on Capitol Hill after fierce budget battles with Democrats pushed the government to the brink of a shutdown in April and the edge of default in August.

The months of turmoil in Washington have spooked consumers, rattled investors and led to a cut in the country's top-notch AAA credit rating.

(Additional reporting by Donna Smith, Susan Cornwell and Thomas Ferraro; editing by Mary Milliken and Doina Chiacu)

© Copyright 2011, Reuters



http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/ncpr/news.newsmain/article/0/13/1856
044/Top.Stories/Senate.delays.disaster.aid.bill.until.Monday

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Sunday, September 25, 2011 4:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I hope that wasn't intentional--I went to that first link you snarked about, and got a nuge swirling screen telling me I'd been "hacked by " I think it was Tiger-something, I shut it too fast to tell. If that was intentional, that's a new low for you. The original article Iposted WAS from CNN...I wonder why you chose another to use for your snark. Now I gotta run a sweep, dammit. If you did that on purpose, you're actually WORSE than Raptor!

The other one was a SATIRICAL ARTICAL...apparently you can't tell the difference! You're right, when it comes to those, I don't care who I get them from. The original link came from CNN.

I have nothing against Reuters and also post material from THEM. But where are the numbers? There's not a single figure in there; I look for facts and FIGURES to be specific.

This isn't worth my time. I know I do the best job I can, and there's no communicating with you. I'm beginning to think your aim is the same as Raptors, so maybe I shouldn't be trying to communicate anyway. I dunno, but I'm getting sick of this shit.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Sunday, September 25, 2011 4:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Nor, apparently, will you spend 1% of the effort you do to find articles blaming the Republicans to see if the Dems are doing the same thing.




"Dear Kettle,

You're black!

Signed,

The Pot"

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Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:38 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I hope that wasn't intentional--I went to that first link you snarked about, and got a nuge swirling screen telling me I'd been "hacked by " I think it was Tiger-something, I shut it too fast to tell. If that was intentional, that's a new low for you.



Niki, that was a link you posted earlier in this very thread, in your second post, which starts with, "Lord, Geezer, how was I ever crazy enough to think you were more reasonable than Wulf or Raptor?". I just copied and pasted it. Look up there and see. Then apologize, perhaps.

Quote:

The other one was a SATIRICAL ARTICAL...apparently you can't tell the difference!

I can tell the difference between a FACTUAL and SATIRICAL. I can also tell when SATIRICAL has a liberal bias, which was what I was pointing out.

Quote:

I have nothing against Reuters and also post material from THEM. But where are the numbers? There's not a single figure in there; I look for facts and FIGURES to be specific.


And the bend them, or accept the bent figures.

The bill is for $3.6 billion in emergency funds.

"The GOP measure includes a total of $3.6 billion -- $1 billion in emergency funds available when the bill is enacted and another $2.6 billion to be budgeted for those federal response agencies for the 2012 fiscal year.", per your CNN article above.

Now, the 2012 fiscal year for the Government starts Oct. 01, 2011, which means the $2.6 billion is gonna get allocated pretty soon, so it's not like it's gonna be sitting around unused for a long time. Any reasonable person would have to assume that the entire $3.6 billion is gonna be available either as soon as the bill is signed or within the next couple of weeks.

If you ignore these facts, and ignore the $2.6 billion altogether, you can come up with a shocking, albeit incorrect, sound bite.

However, if you actually use the facts, how the $1.5 billion in loan guarantees to the auto industry becomes half again the $3.6 billion in emergency funds - excuse me, HALF AGAIN the $3.6 billion - I fail to see.

Quote:

I dunno, but I'm getting sick of this shit.


Yeah. Being wrong all the time does that, I understand. Wouldn't know, myself.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:40 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Nor, apparently, will you spend 1% of the effort you do to find articles blaming the Republicans to see if the Dems are doing the same thing.




"Dear Kettle,

You're black!

Signed,

The Pot"



Mike, I have only to come to RWED, oe even just Niki's posts therein, to find plenty of articles blaming the Republicans for everything.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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