House Freshmen Double Down by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

House Freshmen Double Down

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 07:26
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VIEWED: 2011
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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:46 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Geezer, my point was not that nearly all of the spending was cartoonish (as you suggest, by lumping all spending together) but that nearly all of the cartoonish spending is in the military.

Sure, you can find some lint in the regular budget here and there- farm support for agribusiness which is doing quite nicely thank you... but if you were to fine-tooth comb the entire budget (not counting Social Security and Medicare which are SELF FUNDED) the vast majority of WTF???? occurs in the military budget, because that's where the vast majority of discretionary spending occurs.

Seriously, look at the percentages. Mandatory military spending takes up about 7% of the budget, discretionary military spending another 54% of the budget. THAT should be a WTF??? all on its own.
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Now, instead of belly-aching and bitching, why don't you right-wingers all tell us how YOU would spend the money? Tony made a nice thread for that, called Signy's 100 dollar budget. Otherwise people might, yanno, think that you were all whine and no shine.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:58 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
The 2011 Financial Report of the United States Government was released on December 23, 2011. It reported on the implementation of the 2011 Budget, showed a net operating cost and cash-based budget deficit for the year of $1.3 trillion. According to the Government Accountability Office, the 'accrual deficit provides more information on the longer-term implications of the government's annual operations'. Gross costs fell from $4,472 billion in 2010 to $3,998 billion, largely due to the release of accounting provisions (estimates of future liabilities), while total taxes and other revenues rose from $2,217 billion to $2,364 billion. The GAO was unable to provide an audit opinion on the 2011 financial statements due to 'widespread material internal control weaknesses, significant uncertainties, and other limitations'. As in 2010, the GAO cited as the principal obstacle to its provision of an audit opinion 'serious financial management problems at the Department of Defense that made its financial statements unauditable', highlighting also recurrent issues at the Department of Homeland Security.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:25 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
The 2011 Financial Report of the United States Government was released on December 23, 2011. It reported on the implementation of the 2011 Budget, showed a net operating cost and cash-based budget deficit for the year of $1.3 trillion. According to the Government Accountability Office, the 'accrual deficit provides more information on the longer-term implications of the government's annual operations'. Gross costs fell from $4,472 billion in 2010 to $3,998 billion, largely due to the release of accounting provisions (estimates of future liabilities), while total taxes and other revenues rose from $2,217 billion to $2,364 billion. The GAO was unable to provide an audit opinion on the 2011 financial statements due to 'widespread material internal control weaknesses, significant uncertainties, and other limitations'. As in 2010, the GAO cited as the principal obstacle to its provision of an audit opinion 'serious financial management problems at the Department of Defense that made its financial statements unauditable', highlighting also recurrent issues at the Department of Homeland Security.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget

Hello,

Sometimes I wonder if auditing the Fed in detail would garner a similar result.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:09 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Seriously, look at the percentages. Mandatory military spending takes up about 7% of the budget, discretionary military spending another 54% of the budget. THAT should be a WTF???

I thought so too. Check my post in the $100 budget thread and you'll see you interpreted your table incorrectly.

Military spending takes up 7% of total mandatory spending, and 54% of total discretionary spending. Not the same thing as 7% plus 54% of the entire budget.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Indeed. That's the way I calculated it... I wanted to show what the percentages would be IF we held spending to only the mandatory part. You're right, it's not 7% + 54%, it's some what less than that, but not by a whole lot, since discretionary military spending makes up such a huge part of the budget and that 54% is the main driver of the numbers.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:44 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
The 2011 Financial Report of the United States Government was released on December 23, 2011. It reported on the implementation of the 2011 Budget, showed a net operating cost and cash-based budget deficit for the year of $1.3 trillion. According to the Government Accountability Office, the 'accrual deficit provides more information on the longer-term implications of the government's annual operations'. Gross costs fell from $4,472 billion in 2010 to $3,998 billion, largely due to the release of accounting provisions (estimates of future liabilities), while total taxes and other revenues rose from $2,217 billion to $2,364 billion. The GAO was unable to provide an audit opinion on the 2011 financial statements due to 'widespread material internal control weaknesses, significant uncertainties, and other limitations'. As in 2010, the GAO cited as the principal obstacle to its provision of an audit opinion 'serious financial management problems at the Department of Defense that made its financial statements unauditable', highlighting also recurrent issues at the Department of Homeland Security.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget

George Miller kicks ass, of course, given his amazing support on the matter of the Hellcamps I'm perhaps a little biased, but seriously I'd vote for him....

And I would LOOOOooooove to turn him and his auditors loose on the freakin alphabet goons, oh yes indeedy, cause they're merciless.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:58 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Indeed. That's the way I calculated it... I wanted to show what the percentages would be IF we held spending to only the mandatory part. You're right, it's not 7% + 54%, it's some what less than that, but not by a whole lot, since discretionary military spending makes up such a huge part of the budget and that 54% is the main driver of the numbers.

Okay, you were possibly unclear, rather than incorrect.

This:

Quote:
So, here are the categories, followed by the percentage of the budget which is "mandatory", and the percentage of the budget which is "discretionary". For example, National Defense mandatory spending currently accounts for 0.31% of the total budget, but discretionary defense spending accounts for 54.45% of the total budget.

seems to be referring to 54.45% of the total budget, so it may have thrown me off.

Anyway.

Depending on where you look, Defense takes up 25-30% of the budget. That's quite a difference from 61%.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

What about paying down the $1T+ run up by Bush for his wars? It didn't go under defense then it went under 'emergency spending', and now it goes under 'debt'. In fact, I suspect since SS and Medicare are self-funded w/ SS basically paying the bills of the rest of the government through bonds purchases, a lot of 'debt' is really war/ military debt.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Social Security was not originally IN the Federal budget, as you probably know, because it is SELF FUNDED. in other words, it has its own source of revenue outside corporate and income taxes. President Johnson brought Social Security into the Federal budget to make the Vietnam War look less costly, and it's been there since... covering the Pentagon's ass. And since it worked so well using Social Security as a beard for military spending, Medicare went under the federal budget too.

Also, I agree with Kiki... previous excess military spending is now called "debt". It would be interesting... and I find it instructive that the Federal government doesn't do this... to not only list the SPENDING under each category but also to list the DEBT racked up under each category. It would be very very clear that Social Security is not the source of our budget woes.

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thank you, Kiki, I was hoping someone would note that. Whenever people rant about the budget under Obama, I'm reminded that Bush HID the military spending, so if we calculated that and how much it affected the debt, we'd get a whole different picture.

Quote:
President Bush increased government spending more than any of the six presidents preceding him, including LBJ. In his last term in office, President Bush increased discretionary outlays by an estimated 48.6 percent.

During his eight years in office, President Bush spent almost twice as much as his predecessor, President Clinton. Adjusted for inflation, in eight years, President Clinton increased the federal budget by 11 percent. In eight years, President Bush increased it by a whopping 104 percent. http://mercatus.org/publication/spending-under-president-george-w-bush blows my mind that the current Repubs say "Yes, under Bush we screwed up, but NOW...." and PEOPLE BUY IT! We are such a short-term-memory population, sometimes it blows my mind.

And of course, for all the ranting, SSI, etc., look so bad because they were ROBBED so many times...almost as if someone wanted it that way...hmmmm...

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