REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Hey California animal lovers

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, March 23, 2012 04:30
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Friday, March 16, 2012 7:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


A lot (almost all?) of us here love animals, so here goes. Governor Moonbeam is proposing to permanently ace some provisions of the Hayden Law. The Hayden Law put us at the forefront of animal shelter regulation and many states have been following that lead ever since. The provisions in question have already been suspended since July 2009, and are currently not imposing additional costs on the state. So his cutting them permanently for "budgetary reasons" makes no sense. It was hard enough to get this stuff into law; if he gets rid of them completely, we have to start over.

Some of the provisions that are subject to repeal would mean

-permanently reducing the required holding period for animals to 72 hours prior to euthanasia,
-eliminating the requirement to provide veterinary treatment for shelter animals, and
-eliminating the requirement to keep records for animals impounded by shelter personnel, which would only make it more difficult to locate lost animals or those available for adoption.

You know how many animals suffer and die in shelters, this just makes it worse. And there's been NO savings by suspending them, so "budget cuts" is bullshit. If you feel like I do, take a second to sign the petition (for all the good petitions do--hey, it's better than nothing):

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-governor-of-ca-do-not-repeal-any-p
rovisions-of-the-hayden-law


Thanx for "listening".

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 11:54 AM

OONJERAH



I signed it.
Am contacting family to do the same.



                   

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 2:13 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Also worth getting some signs and getting on his case about it - Moonbeam is one of the rare few who would actually take notice and think it over cause of that...

-F

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 9:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thanx guys. Frem, Brown has changed to a degree with age...I think. He's put in place some pretty hefty cuts; on the other hand, they've been pretty across the board, and he's doing it to TRY and get us back to square one after all the damage Reagan and the Govenator did, so I'm withholding judgment. This one just hurt. I do think you're right, tho', that he still actually "listens"--he certainly USED to.

Beats the hell out of the Govenator, anyway or, that ebay bitch, Meg Whitman, who spent $140 million of her own money running against him. Last time Moonbeam was in office, he left it with a surplus, which none of them have done since! Only time will tell...



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Sunday, March 18, 2012 12:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:...

after all the damage Reagan and the Govenator did



Reagan ? Really?

Wow.

This goes beyond all reason. When you have to try and reach back 30+ years to lay blame for the problems y'all have today...it's impossible to take you seriously.

Always want to help out animals, but giving the real source of your state's problems, the Democrats and their tax /spend polices, a total pass for the predicament y'all are in, truly takes the cake.







"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 1:29 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahhh, how blithely (and blindly) you live in your own partisan little universe! Reagan’s record on raising taxes began almost the moment he entered politics. In 1967 he endorsed a $1 billion per year tax increase, equivalent to a $17 billion tax increase today – an enormous sum equal to a third of state revenues at that time. Reagan’s proposal had the distinction of being the largest tax hike ever proposed by any governor in the history of the United States. In 1970, Reagan proposed yet another big tax increase of $1.1 billion. The 1971 legislation raised taxes by $508 million (about $6 billion today) and state taxes were raised another $1.1 billion in 1972 (about $12.5 billion today).

You guys have made a god out of Reagan, completely ignoring the facts.
Quote:

The conservative notion that cutting taxes creates jobs and increases revenue is ongoing from the Reagan era and during his first year in office when he cut taxes, the government went deeper into debt and despite raising taxes 10 more times he was never able to rein in the federal deficit. His economic policies are still the stuff of legend for conservatives, but instead of helping American families, he was responsible for an income disparity that saw average incomes for the top wage earners triple or quadruple while the median income has risen only 30% (adjusted for inflation).

The rise of the religious right in America is in part due to Reagan’s deal with the devil (moral majority) by giving them a voice and a foothold in politics in exchange for their voting bloc. Reagan’s unholy alliance with the likes of Jerry Falwell has been a thorn in the side of women’s rights and religious freedom that continues to this day with Republicans making every attempt to restrict a woman’s right to choose in the 112th Congress.

What must be a source of embarrassment for Republicans and conservatives is Reagan’s creation of the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan. Reagan was responsible for funding, training, arming, and equipping the Islamist mujahidin in Afghanistan as a means of combatting the former Soviet Union. Reagan was responsible for channeling billions of dollars and sophisticated weapons through Pakistan’s intelligence agency that is still responsible for helping the Taliban to kill Americans in Afghanistan and the border region with Pakistan.

It is curious why Republicans have elevated Ronald Reagan to god-like status when history shows he presided over what is arguably a period of criminal activity and economic despair for millions of Americans. Reagan’s administration illegally sold arms to Iranian officials in exchange for American hostages despite an arms embargo in place at the time. If it wasn’t bad enough selling arms illegally, Reagan secretly used some of the proceeds to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua that was directly prohibited by Congress. More at http://www.politicususa.com/ronald-reagan-record/ to California:
Quote:

Ronald Reagan’s tenure as California governor does nothing to add to his mystique as a humanitarian because he committed one of the worst atrocities on mentally ill Californians that the State is still dealing with today. Reagan closed all of California’s State Hospitals that were the primary care mental health facilities, and put the patients on the streets without any care or safety nets. California’s streets are still the home for those mental patients who have not since died from lack of care or are not in prison. Besides putting the mentally ill on the streets, Reagan’s actions put thousands of health professionals out of a job further costing the state tax revenue. Same
He felt the same about higher education as your friend Santorum, and acted on it:
Quote:

What is Mr. Reagan's educational legacy? Let's begin with a look at his record as governor of California. While running for the governorship, Mr. Reagan shrewdly made the most of disorder on University of California campuses. For instance, he demanded a legislative investigation of alleged Communism and sexual misconduct at the University of California at Berkeley. He insisted on public hearings, claiming "a small minority of hippies, radicals and filthy speech advocates" had caused disorder and that they should "be taken by the scruff of the neck and thrown off campus -- permanently",[1]

Once elected, Mr. Reagan set the educational tone for his administration by:

a. calling for an end to free tuition for state college and university students,

b. annually demanding 20% across-the-board cuts in higher education funding,[2]

c. repeatedly slashing construction funds for state campuses

d. engineering the firing of Clark Kerr, the popular President of the University of California, and

e. declaring that the state "should not subsidize intellectual curiosity,[3]"

And he certainly did not let up on the criticisms of campus protestors that had aided his election. Mr. Reagan's denunciations of student protesters were both frequent and particularly venomous. He called protesting students "brats," "freaks," and "cowardly fascists." And when it came to "restoring order" on unruly campuses he observed, "If it takes a bloodbath, let's get it over with. No more appeasement!"

Governor Reagan not only slashed spending on higher education. Throughout his tenure as governor Mr. Reagan consistently and effectively opposed additional funding for basic education. This led to painful increases in local taxes and the deterioration of California's public schools. Los Angeles voters got so fed up picking up the slack that on five separate occasions they refused to support any further increases in local school taxes. The consequent under-funding resulted in overcrowded classrooms, ancient worn-out textbooks, crumbling buildings and badly demoralized teachers. Ultimately half of the Los Angeles Unified School District's teachers walked off the job to protest conditions in their schools.[5] Mr. Reagan was unmoved.

Ronald Reagan left California public education worse than he found it. A system that had been the envy of the nation when he was elected was in decline when he left.

Significantly, President Reagan also took steps to increase state power over education at the expense of local school districts. Federal funds that had flowed directly to local districts were redirected to state government. Moreover, federal monies were provided to beef up education staffing at the state level. The result was to seriously erode the power of local school districts.[6]

As in California, Mr. Reagan also made drastic cuts in the federal education budget. Over his eight years in office he diminished it by half. When he was elected the federal share of total education spending was 12%. When he left office it stood at just 6%.

He also advocated amending the Constitution to permit public school prayer, demanded a stronger emphasis on values education and proposed federal tuition tax credits for parents who opted for private schooling. The later two initiatives stalled in Congress. There were desultory efforts to promote greater values education but theyeventually misfired because of an obvious lack of consensus on whose values were to be taught.

Mr. Reagan was far more successful in giving corporate managers unprecedented influence over the future of public education. Reagan's avowed purpose was to make America more competitive in the world economy. But corporate executives dabbling in public education had no discernable influence on America's competitiveness. But the influence of big business did undermine the power of parents and locally elected school board members. It also suggested that it was far more important for schools to turn out good employees than good citizens or decent human beings.

In California Mr. Reagan had made political hay by heaping scorn on college students and their professors. As President his administration's repeatedly issued or encouraged uncommonly bitter denunciations of public education.

That sums up Mr. Reagan's educational legacy. As governor and president he demagogically fanned discontent with public education, then made political hay of it. As governor and president he bashed educators and slashed education spending while professing to valued it. And as governor and president he left the nation's educators dispirited and demoralized. http://www.newfoundations.com/Clabaugh/CuttingEdge/Reagan.html just a TINY taste; I'm not about to waste a second more proving your idiocy.

WHY the current Conservatives have deified Reagan is beyond me, except for the fact that he put capitalism above ALL else, even the country and its people. I guess that's all they care about. But I LIVED through Reagan's term as governor here; you're never going to deify him as long as the facts exist. You literally CANNOT pull the wool over my eyes, I SAW our education system go from one of the best in the world to a total mess.



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Sunday, March 18, 2012 1:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Yeah, not buying your long winded screed against Reagan, not even a little.

But great job @ ignoring me, again , Niki.

Point of fact, the state is over taxed and is losing businesses right and left. Cuts have to be made, but no one wants THEIRS taken from what they care about, it should be the others who have to suffer.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 2:24 PM

OONJERAH



When I was a youngster here, our Animal Control facility was not so good. Not to blame them.

Last few years, given a new set of rules by the Hayden law, it's been much better. All of the AC
employees, near as I can see, got right behind Hayden. They go out of their way to save animals.
Entering the lobby of the animal shelter, it's full of cages of various critters up for adoption,
mostly cats, of course. Thru a door are the floor-to-ceiling enclosures for dogs. Many are pitt
bulls or chihuahuas, probably from puppy mills.

There's a guy in our neighborhood who let his pitt bull run loose. That's illegal, pitt bull or no.
His dog was pretty squirrelly, wandering about and growling or barking at any neighbors or dogs
she found outside. They say she never bit anyone; she barked at us, 'cause she was scared.

The neighbors complained about her many times. Her owner was cited many times, but ignored the
citations, never paying the fine and continued to let the dog go loose in spite of the fact he
has a quite large fenced yard.
BTW, the dog was good with kids once she knew them.

Finally, AC arrested the dog and kept her. They gave the owner two choices: find a decent home
for your dog OR see us in court. Last I knew, she had a new home.

ETA: Had she been euthanized, I'd blame the owner. "Every litter hurts" ending in 1,000's of
euthanasias -- I blame bad owners.



                   

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 5:42 PM

OONJERAH



Speaking of dear Ronald Reagan, did they wisely preserve his brain for science?

ETA: Sure seems a proper karma, after putting the mental patients on the streets, he died of Alzheimer's.

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Sunday, March 18, 2012 7:03 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Yanno, sometimes, it's the little things.

Rooster looked after by Ann Arbor residents since September might have farm to call home
http://annarbor.com/news/rooster-looked-after-by-ann-arbor-residents-s
ince-september-might-have-farm-to-call-home
/
Quote:

Some Ann Arbor drivers saw a different kind of pedestrian walking down the sidewalk on Packard earlier this month — a black and gold rooster.

While on her way home from work, Little Lamb Nursery & Kindergarten employee Mary Grace Argiero spotted the rebel rooster walking along Packard between Easy and Chesterfield.

“He was walking on the sidewalk heading toward Briarwood Mall and he was really cute actually,” Argiero said. “I was like ‘wow, it feels like old times!’ It’s something you don’t expect to see.”

The rooster has been living on two residents’ land since September. Ann Arbor neighbors Carol Wallace and Hilda Ward have been opening their yards to the unlikely visitor.

The few acres of land between their homes, located on Packard at Chesterfield, served as the roosting grounds for what Wallace called “a beautiful and peaceful rooster.” She and Ward had been feeding him and he slept in her pine tree nightly.

"We weren't sure where he was from, but we didn't mind him at all," Wallace said. “He was never aggressive. He’d even come running up to the car to almost greet you.”

Jeff Straw, Ann Arbor's deputy parks and recreation manager, said the rooster wasn’t from Cobblestone Farm, where it was first thought to have escaped from. Cobblestone Farm houses roosters and chickens among other barnyard animals about a quarter-mile from Wallace's yard.

Straw said the farm’s caretaker was notified that a rooster was spotted walking along Packard late last week and checked into it.

“He offered to take the rooster for them and relocate it,” Straw said. “It seemed like they've kind of just taken it under their wing.

"No pun intended,” Straw added, laughing.

Straw said the caretaker took the rooster to the farm to see if it could adjust to being around other roosters and animals, but was told Wednesday it was aggressive around the unfamiliar animals. If the rooster doesn't adjust well, the caretaker will look for another farm for it, Straw said.

Considering that Ann Arbor’s chicken ordinance doesn’t allow residents to keep roosters, Wallace said she is happy to hear the bird will be safe in an appropriate environment. She has seen the rooster stray into the road before and almost get struck by traffic.

“He was kind of like a pet. I miss him already, but we don’t have the means to keep him,” Wallace said. “I’m glad he’s safe. I’ll come down to see him.”


Barring a certain economic egalitarianism, Ann Arbor residents are some pretty nice folk, as a rule - this is about par for the course.
Now if only they'd adapt that attitude towards wayward and homeless HUMANS, that'd be nice.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, March 19, 2012 3:25 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
And there's been NO savings by suspending them, so "budget cuts" is bullshit.



Not so sure.

Quote:

Cities and counties typically pay for three days and, under the Hayden Law, the state reimburses them about $23 million a year to keep animals alive for up to another three days. The state suspended the law three years ago to save money, and now Brown wants to permanently repeal it as a part of his effort to reduce the state's budget deficit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/05/hayden-law-jerry-brown_n_1321
668.html


That being said, giving the shelters the money seems as good a use as any.

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Monday, March 19, 2012 6:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oonj, doesn't it ALWAYS come down to the owner? I've seen few exceptions in my time, and if you watch Cesar, virtually EVERY problem he fixes is the people, not the dogs! I long since accepted that the dog is a reflection of the owner, and I've rarely seen otherwise. It can go from neglect to abuse, to not being alpha and treating 'em like a child, but there are myriad ways to screw up a dog, and we humans are very adept at finding them. Neat that dog was re-homed, pitts get such a bad rap, and making one like that only worsens it. Here in Marin, there's a LOT of pits, from rescue, and a lot of greyhounds, ditto. I have NEVER met a single "bad" pit, they're all wiggly-friendly and great with kids. It really pisses me off that people don't know that about them.

Rooster story was neeet, Frem; it's good to be reminded now and then (like that thing about people saving dogs from the war(s)) that some humans have a "humane" side to them. It doesn't exactly restore my faith in humans, but it reminds me there are good ones out there. Generally we only hear about the "other" kind...



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Monday, March 19, 2012 10:25 AM

OONJERAH



I once knew an untrained pitbull who was very sweet.
A well-trained pitt may be awesome. There a gal here in CA that uses hers for search and rescue.
They are great at it, having tremendous endurance, and they never give up. => http://www.forpitssake.org/sar.html
......................

There is some truth to the pitt's bad rap. They will fight, especially without supervision.

N1 has handsome, obedient, intact male pitt, Zei. Trouble is, N1 is not a pro trainer and there
are gaps in Zei's training. He's been taught to eliminate all up & down the driveway, so he thinks
the driveway is his turf. Thus he will inspect every dog that goes by, wanting to sniff well the
females and challenge the males. N1 sees this, but hasn't figured out that Zei is just following
his training.

N2 sometimes dogsits handsome, smart, intact male pitt, Bat. Bat isn't as well trained as Zei, but
he loves his people and is very protective of the toddler Kay. When Bat was young, under 2 yrs,
older Zei had him buffaloed. So Bat's owner told N2, "Never walk him past Zei's yard."
Bat grew up, not afraid of Zei anymore.

N2 is a childish old fart who gets petulant. One day the manager told him to keep Bat under control.
As soon as the manager left, N2 put a leash on Bat, gathered up Kay, and went for a walk to the mail
boxes ... going past Zei. Baiting Zei was intentional and easy.

Twice, about 1 second in duration, I heard snarls and a scream. By the time I got to the scene, it
was under control. I saw N2 in the middle of the drive holding Bat back; Kay standing at his leg.
N1's GF had Zei on the far side of the driveway, holding him by the shoulders. Another neighbor
was standing between Zei & Bat, his arms spread to catch Zei should he make another charge.

We came within a hair's breadth of a pitbull fight with a little girl in the middle of it.

Yes, owners to blame. Would a pair of rotties do the same? I guess.
Pitts will fight more readily than most dogs. It's what they were for.



                   

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Monday, March 19, 2012 1:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Speaking of dear Ronald Reagan, did they wisely preserve his brain for science?

ETA: Sure seems a proper karma, after putting the mental patients on the streets, he died of Alzheimer's.




Shoulda preserved his brain for science fiction, because that old boy lived in a world of his own imagination!

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Monday, March 19, 2012 1:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Yeah. Crazy guy actually believed in the good of America.

What was HE thinking ?



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:10 PM

OONJERAH


Cats Need No Protection! ~Oonj

Cat plunges 19 stories from high-rise, and walks away =>
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/22/10812365-cat-plunges-19-s
tories-from-high-rise-and-walks-away


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Friday, March 23, 2012 4:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, I heard about that one, isn't it AMAZING?! Nature sure built cats good!



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