REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

SC overturns Arizona-- breaking news

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Friday, June 29, 2012 13:16
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Monday, June 25, 2012 5:51 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


A lot, but not all, of Arizona's SB 1070 was struck down by a 5-3 vote, with 1 abstention. Breaking news.

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Monday, June 25, 2012 6:28 AM

BYTEMITE


On one hand, one step back away from a police state. On the other hand, one step closer to complete federal level control of law and legislation.

I'm uncomfortable having life-term philosopher kings disseminating law from on high. Even though I think in this case they actually did the right thing. But then, this is also the same supreme court that decided money is the same as speech. Call me cynical, but I don't trust their decision is without motive or agenda.

Wonder what will fill the void this leaves.

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Monday, June 25, 2012 9:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Misleading headline. Core of AZ law is actually upheld.

Also, anyone else find it odd that Kagan recused herself on THIS case ? How can she recuse herself from this, w/ out doing the same for the ObamaCare ruling ?


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, June 25, 2012 12:51 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Mitt Romney doesn't want to talk about it. Go figure.



But isn't Rappy cute pointing out the misleading thread titles of others, while being hopelessly blind to his own?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 1:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)










"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, June 25, 2012 4:46 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Misleading headline.



Pardon me. Now I've got this image of a bunch of guys from Riverside county going out to the border, sticking 2 x 4's under the edge, and prying up. PLOP!, and the whole state turns upside down like a pancake, cactus roots and ugly pipes sticking up in the air, and all the buildings, streets and people upside down underground.

My bad.

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Monday, June 25, 2012 4:59 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Misleading headline. Core of AZ law is actually upheld.



You're talking about the police checking the immigration status of people. That was upheld, but in the decision it states that it is open to other challenges depending on how it is executed. Meaning that the police are not going to be able to just stop brown people at random and ask if they are US citizens.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Misleading headline.



Pardon me. Now I've got this image of a bunch of guys from Riverside county going out to the border, sticking 2 x 4's under the edge, and prying up. PLOP!, and the whole state turns upside down like a pancake, cactus roots and ugly pipes sticking up in the air, and all the buildings, streets and people upside down underground.

My bad.




No, just that the primary part of the law wasn't overturned. Your headline suggests that it was.

Talk to Hank Johnson ( D-GA ) about flipping over large bodies of land. He thinks Guam may flip over, because of too many folks on it.




And Kwickie ? Harry Reid may be the most miserable piece of go-se alive. Anywhere.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:55 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Misleading headline. Core of AZ law is actually upheld.



You're talking about the police checking the immigration status of people. That was upheld, but in the decision it states that it is open to other challenges depending on how it is executed. Meaning that the police are not going to be able to just stop brown people at random and ask if they are US citizens.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



Hey, Nick, have you read the whole decision? ( 'Cuz I'm too lazy to.)

ALL the commentators I've seen lately have said that Arizona cops MAY check the immigration status of people they stop. As I remember it, the original law, and everybody who was in favor of it, said it REQUIRED the cops to check. Like, every time, everybody. That's one helluva big difference. Am I remembering correctly, and did the decision address that and change it, or am I just wrong? Anybody know?

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:17 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

Hey, Nick, have you read the whole decision? ( 'Cuz I'm too lazy to.)

ALL the commentators I've seen lately have said that Arizona cops MAY check the immigration status of people they stop. As I remember it, the original law, and everybody who was in favor of it, said it REQUIRED the cops to check. Like, every time, everybody. That's one helluva big difference. Am I remembering correctly, and did the decision address that and change it, or am I just wrong? Anybody know?



Never mind, I found it. In the syllabus of the decision, which is the summary the court released for the press, it said that the court has no problem with the mandatory nature of the requirement to check immigration status. (That's not an EXACT quote-- the document was a PDF, and I can't seem to copy from it and paste where I want it, but that's what they said.)
Quote:


The Act obligates police to make an attempt, when practicable during a "lawful stop, detention or arrest", to determine a person's immigration status if there is reasonable suspicion that the person is an illegal alien.


Wikipedia
Quote:


The provision that was upheld by all eight ruling justices – commonly called the "show me your papers" provision - allows local law enforcement, when performing other state law enforcement functions, to check on the immigration status of those people they stop for another reason.


CNN.com

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:03 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Talk to Hank Johnson ( D-GA ) about flipping over large bodies of land. He thinks Guam may flip over, because of too many folks on it.






Wow. How many times have you been corrected on that? You do realize that was a gag he and another guy had worked out, right? It's been long-documented, and you've been corrected on it before, and you still keep trying to sell that same line of crap. Listen, just because you love the taste of bullshit, doesn't mean you can sell the rest of us on it.

It's cute, because you claim all the time that you're more than willing to admit when you've made a mistake, and you've admitted as much about this very clip in the past - yet here you are posting it yet again!

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=42550&p=1

Quote:


And Kwickie ? Harry Reid may be the most miserable piece of go-se alive. Anywhere.




Oh, at worst he can only come in second for that award, as long as you still live.




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


As I heard and read it from several sources, the provision that remains does so on a conditional basis; it has to be "as long as no profiling was involved". That means the first time someone feels profiled, they bring a lawsuit, it goes to the Supremes, who strike down that single remaining aspect of the law.

It's patently obvious Raptor only gets his "news" from FauxNews and Brewer, who lied outright to save face by saying the "heart" of the law was upheld.
Quote:

But while concluding that the federal government has the power to block the law, the court let stand one of the most controversial parts: a provision that lets police check a person's immigration status while enforcing other laws if "reasonable suspicion" exists that the person is in the United States illegally. Critics said that law opens the door to racial profiling.

"There is a basic uncertainty about what the law means and how it will be enforced," Kennedy wrote, making clear that Arizona authorities must comply with federal law in conducting the immigration status checks or face further constitutional challenges."

The Arizona Department of Public Safety and the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police said it wasn't immediately clear whether authorities would begin checking motorists' immigration status while enforcing other laws. They referred questions to the Arizona attorney general's office, which did not immediately return a call Monday from CNN seeking comment, but Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer told reporters she expected the provision would go into effect immediately.

Brewer, a Republican who signed the legislation, called the decision "a victory for the people of Arizona and for America." In an interview on CNN's "John King USA," she said Arizona police and sheriff's deputies have been trained to avoid racial profiling, "and they don't profile." http://articles.cnn.com/2012-06-25/politics/politics_scotus-arizona-la
w_1_arizona-immigration-law-immigration-status-arizona-association?_s=PM:POLITICS
, of course they don't profile. How silly.

So the next time someone sues for being profiled, it goes back to the Supremes and the whole thing dies. I love it!

By the bye, this is a real relief for Arizona law enforcement. Under 1070, police could be sued if someone thought they WEREN'T enforcing 1070 enthusiastically enough; and they'd get sued for profiling if they DID. Also, according to one law-enforcement officer I heard, the way 1070 was written, the police had to arrest someone, hold them in jail, notify ICE and continue holding them in jail, while the way it's usually done, unless there's a breaking of the law, they just inform ICE like everyon else does, thereby sparing them the difficulties and the Arizona citizens of extra expense, etc. I'll have to find that guy's quote, as it makes it cleare than my abridged version of what he said.





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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Harry Reid is the Mt Everest of piles of go-se, Kwickie. All others pale in comparison. Except you. You're the equivalent of K2 when it comes to such piles.

Upon further review, I retract my prior retraction. I think he's being serious. I fell prey to the post disaster spin which was offered, out of a sense of fairness and decency. And not wanting to believe the worst in our elected officials.

I now believe the worst in our elected officials. At least those who say such asinine and idiotic things in formal settings. Like Hank. And Harry. And Maxine Waters...

Also, I did add this...

Quote:



If the Congressman has any REAL concerns on the issue of adding 5,000 more troops on station in Guam, he does his cause, himself and his constituents no good by engaging in this game of footsie, in the formal setting of a Congressional hearing.

If it really is a just one big f-ing joke, then why even bother at all ?



But thanks again for showing us all how much time and effort you put into obsessing over me and my posts. I guess you and kiki have some sort of support group ? If not, y'all should start one. Clearly, you need it.




" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:44 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


One of the pieces of commentary I read suggested that the original boycott had a real effect on Arizona businessmen-- tourism and conventions fell way off, and they started quietly asking local cops not to enforce it very hard. Cops started backing off, and Republican business groups started quietly trying to get the law overturned or repealed. As word leaked out that enforcement wasn't a high priority, the boycotts were turned down also, and business came back up. Sorry I can't cite the source, but that sounds about right.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 8:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

I now believe the worst in our elected officials. At least those who say such asinine and idiotic things in formal settings. Like Hank. And Harry. And Maxine Waters...




Sure. You have a problem with anyone actually saying the word "vagina" in such a "formal" setting, too.

But oddly, you have no problem at all with a VP shouting down a member of such a "formal" group by yelling "GO FUCK YOURSELF!" at him.

Or with one of your beloved GOP elected officials screaming "YOU LIE!" during another such "formal" event.

Nope, no problem with those kinds of idiotic and asinine things at all. You just couldn't find it in yourself to bring them up at all, much less to post and re-post them over and over and over.

It's really cute how much you obsess over Hank Johnson, though, that you've had the time to post up the video at least three times here, and like your beloved pile of human excrement Mitt Romney, you've staked out at least two positions that are polar opposites on it!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
One of the pieces of commentary I read suggested that the original boycott had a real effect on Arizona businessmen-- tourism and conventions fell way off, and they started quietly asking local cops not to enforce it very hard. Cops started backing off, and Republican business groups started quietly trying to get the law overturned or repealed. As word leaked out that enforcement wasn't a high priority, the boycotts were turned down also, and business came back up. Sorry I can't cite the source, but that sounds about right.



Sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. The drop off likely has more to do w/the slow economy and , oh yeah, the bloody drug war raging on the southern border. The people of AZ voted FOR this law , 2 to 1, and are damn fed up w/ the influx of illegals via the open borders.


And Kwickie, when will you ever get your facts straight? Cheney's remarks weren't in an open, formal setting, but directly privately, not during when Congress was in session.

Silly man.

And Hank is local, and is from Cynthia McKinney's former district. Sadly, I have idiots like them representing my state in D.C. And Mitt's never said anything so brain dead stupid as what Mr Hank says.

So, why don't YOU go F yourself.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:26 AM

BYTEMITE


Oh. Well, this is dumb. Instead of making a decision now like we're supposed to, we'll give it a try and see how many issues and lawsuits come up first.

Trial and Error Justice. Smart thinking, SCOTUS. Now I can see why we trust you all with the laws of the land.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Apparently you're right, NewOld. I found this:
Quote:

Arizona's controversial immigration law was designed to keep people out—specifically, undocumented immigrants. But it may have done more than that by deterring tourism and discouraging business in the state. Now that the Supreme Court has made its ruling on the law known as SB 1070, some state business people are now hoping they can just move on.

Some thought the law trampled on civil rights, and the controversy may have driven hundreds of millions of dollars away from the state due to boycotts and a decline in tourism.

The group seems to want the issue finally out of the national spotlight. Jarnagin points to business travel as an area that suffered due to the SB 1070 controversy.

"People planning a meeting, typically they hope to avoid protesters," she says. "When your destination is all over the national news and being perceived as possibly unfriendly or unsafe or whatever the conversation is, perception is reality for people."

Driving all those people away hurt a state already smarting from a painful housing collapse. Meanwhile, non-tourist dollars were diverted from Arizona when organizations, people, and even some cities announced boycotts of businesses headquartered in the state, like U-Haul and Best Western.

By one estimate, the economic effects may have been painful. A 2010 paper from liberal think tank Center for American Progress estimated that the state could lose $217 million in direct spending from a decline in conference attendees, not to mention 4,236 jobs and $388 million in economic output as a result of the law.

"You end up hurting the very people you'd like to be helping. You hurt people who had no influence on the law that was passed," says Garrick Taylor, vice president of communications at the Arizona Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

Still, while these businesses may cheer a reprieve from the controversy, some employers may be finding themselves with a new problem on their hands—a shortage of workers.

Whether because of the immigration law, the economic collapse, or countless other factors, the state's undocumented immigrant population has shrunk dramatically in recent years. As of January 2011, there were 360,000 illegal immigrants in Arizona, down from 560,000 in 2008, according to data from the Department of Homeland Security.

Many of those undocumented workers were doing jobs that many native-born Americans don't want to do, says Doug Massey, professor of sociology and public affairs at Princeton University.

"The wages you would have to pay to get somebody to go out in the desert and harvest watermelons would make the watermelons uncompetitive in markets," he says.

Then again, fewer illegal immigrants means fewer illegal labor practices on the part of businesses, which may boost pay and conditions for other workers.

"[Hiring undocumented workers] seriously erodes wages and working conditions, partly because employers that hire these folks know that there's very little chance that they will get reported by those workers for wage and hour violations or safety violations or anything else," says Peter Cappelli, professor of management at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/06/25/arizona-businesses-hope
-to-put-sb-1070-behind-them
appparently it HAS had an effect, and has affected business is AZ.

The only ones who love this law are the for-profit prison business and anti-immigrant right wingers (is that last a duplication?). Thing is, those right wingers hate immigrants and want them all in prison or deported, but at the same time they want the work done CHEAP, so there's little enforcement of employers hiring illegal workers. Having one's cake and eating it, too, as it were.

But hey, Mike and Raptor, you go right ahead fighting over minutiae having nothing to do with 1070, by all means.


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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:51 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Hey, Nick, have you read the whole decision? ( 'Cuz I'm too lazy to.)

ALL the commentators I've seen lately have said that Arizona cops MAY check the immigration status of people they stop. As I remember it, the original law, and everybody who was in favor of it, said it REQUIRED the cops to check. Like, every time, everybody. That's one helluva big difference. Am I remembering correctly, and did the decision address that and change it, or am I just wrong? Anybody know?



I've read some of the decision and listened to just about everything NPR has had on this.

As I understand it the provision requiring the police to check was part of the bill struck down.

Basically the court has ruled that the police can ask to proof of citizenship during an arrest or if they have some reasonable suspicion. It is much like how the court has upheld profiling as long as if it is used in conjunction with other indicators.

The court also said that this last standing provision is open to further challenges depending on how it is implemented. Which means if the police start to abuse this power the court is open to looking at it again. So the court has give the states a rather short leash on this.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:08 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Yeah, Niki.
The source I found was on the home page of CNN.com.

But since Der Rappenfuhrer thinks it's a bunch of hooey, I'm not gonna cite it.

And I do love the way he's adding to the substantive, worthwhile discussion by making unsupported ad hominem attacks on Harry Reid, one of the highest ranked legislators in our democratically elected government.

But, hey, I just pushed one of his buttons by accusing him of using ad hominen. Now he'll make a bunch of posts arguing that he never did that, that I started it, and attacking me.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:15 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Nick,
as I mentioned above, I found it. I got over the lazy and went looking for that specific point. There it is, in the Syllabus: the court has no problem with the mandatory nature of ordering the police to ask for proof of citizenship. That's in the one major point , out of 5, that they didn't strike down. Guess I'm gonna have to download the PDF document and work it over until I can post the exact quote.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Oh. Well, this is dumb. Instead of making a decision now like we're supposed to, we'll give it a try and see how many issues and lawsuits come up first.

Trial and Error Justice. Smart thinking, SCOTUS. Now I can see why we trust you all with the laws of the land.



This is the Obama way. The mindlessly idiotic pool lift law that Obama has imposed on the nation is going to be regulated how ? By lawsuits.

Poolmageddon comes from the Americans with Disabilities Act. The Department of Justice has issued new regulations, catching most operators of pools by surprise, telling them they had to put these elevators in. This is a regulation, not a law. The ADA gives the Justice Department the authority to issue regulations concerned the ADA.

The spin is this is payback for the trial lawyers. The ADA provides for what is called a “private right of action,” which means if someone has their rights violated under the ADA, they can sue without involving the government.

There will be lawsuits under the ADA for poolmageddon. The problem is not the lawyers. The problem is a very bad law.


http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/poolmageddon


" But... the SCOTUS made this ruling, not Obama! " Please. All this stems from Obama taking on the " sovereign " states, and usurping their rights to protect themselves , in the first place. Had he and the federal govt done ITS job ( blame Bush for this as well. ), then we'd not have to ever bothered with this in the first place.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, NewOld, why bother putting up facts, figures and cites, as Raptor will merely conter with a bunch of un-cited bullshit and "Well, it's true" or some equally inane comment.
Quote:

the court has no problem with the mandatory nature of ordering the police to ask for proof of citizenship
But from what I've heard/read, no problme with it as long as the police have a REASON for pulling someone over, etc. That's the pertinent part I got which will mean they'll strike that one down eventually, too.

Thing is, SCOTUS can't rule on that one (unless they just plain let it stand or strike it down) because the law supposedly hasn't been IMPLEMENTED yet (according to Brewer anyway). Ergo, they would be ruling on something that hasn't happened and for which there are no facts to determine whether the actions were unconstitutional or not. Just like they couldn't rule Roe v. Wade until someone challenged the existing law.

Something I heard a commentator say the other day about our current very-right-wing SCOTUS was that if this court had been in charge at the time, civil rights laws, Roe v. Wade and many, many more things never would have happened. I think he was right, which is doubly scary because there are virtually no viable recourses to what SCOTUS decides. Scary times...

ETA: I found this, which explains it: "The court ruled that it is too early to know whether Section 2(B) can be implemented in a way that will not lead to racial profiling, in violation of the Constitution. While the court was clear that Monday's opinion leaves open the possibility of other challenges to SB 1070 after the law goes into effect, residents of Arizona must first be profiled for the case to return to Washington."


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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

And Mitt's never said anything so brain dead stupid as what Mr Hank says.





"I'm not concerned about the very poor."

"I like being able to fire people."

"I don't believe in Europe."


All direct quotes from Mittens himself.


Naturally you don't think any of those are idiotic things to say.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:10 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


If anything Poolmageddon shows that the regulation system works. The DOJ has backed off the regulation after a majority of states, who have primacy when it come to pool regulations, refused to enforce the new regulation. Leaving the DOJ and the courts to try. That was unworkable.

The Teabagger links shows just how out of touch they are. If every regulation had to be encoded into law the whole system would be unworkable. If the new ADA reg had be a law the DOJ could not have backed off it so easily, or quickly.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

And Mitt's never said anything so brain dead stupid as what Mr Hank says.



"I'm not concerned about the very poor."

"I like being able to fire people."

"I don't believe in Europe."


All direct quotes from Gov. Romney himself.


Naturally you don't think any of those are idiotic things to say.



I don't, because they're not in the least bit 'idiotic', when you take the context in which they were said into account. Which you won't, because you're too much of a coward to have a big boy discussion of the issues.

And keep in mind, Hank Johnson said Guam was in danger of capsizing. Mitt's comments are easily defensible. Not so w/ Hank's.

And this poolmageddon crap shows how out of touch this administration is, not the tea party site.

The ADA reg is incomprehensible asinine and unrealistic. EVERY pool feature, in EVERY public area, is suppose to have an anchored, in ground pool lift for the handicapped? That is so unbelievably expensive, and will result in many pools being filled in. THERE'S your ' equality ' outcome. Everyone gets screwed, because of a few bureaucratic do-gooders think the world isn't a freaking fair place !

GOD I fucking hate intrusive govt!


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:42 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The ADA reg is incomprehensible asinine and unrealistic. EVERY pool feature, in EVERY public area, is suppose to have an anchored, in ground pool lift for the handicapped? That is so unbelievably expensive, and will result in many pools being filled in. THERE'S your ' equality ' outcome. Everyone gets screwed, because of a few bureaucratic do-gooders think the world isn't a freaking fair place !

GOD I fucking hate intrusive govt!



Yes the regulations are unrealistic, that is why they are not going into effect, and the DOJ is backing off them. Don't get you shorts in a bunch.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


GOD I fucking hate intrusive govt!






Except when you want it intruding into a woman's choice, of course. Or when you want it intruding into another country's airspace, or invading and occupying them. Then you LOVE intrusive government!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:18 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)



n/m

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ya gotta love it: "Smaller government" and "fiscal responsibility" at their best:
Quote:

The U.S. Supreme Court's decision upholding a piece of Arizona's controversial immigration law portends such a "huge" increase in policing for one department that the chief wondered Tuesday if his agency will be able to handle the workload.

At a time when the Tucson Police Department is down 160 officers because of a weakened economy, the agency now must make up to 50,000 additional phone calls a year to federal officials to verify the immigration status of persons whom officers have stopped and have reason to believe are in the country illegally, Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor said Tuesday.

Other law agencies in Arizona, however, reported "business as usual" a day after the Supreme Court ruling.

Just 70 miles from the Mexican border, the Tucson department may have to spend more than $10 million a year to book and jail up to 36,000 arrestees also suspected of being illegal immigrants -- a more than 7% increase to the agency's $130 million budget, Villaseñor said.

The police chief said he wonders if his 950-officer agency has been dealt an "impossible mandate." The state law, SB 1070, allows citizens to sue his department or others if they fail to enforce federal immigration laws, the chief said.
.....
Sgt. Tommy Thompson said "I am mandated to make a reasonable attempt to contact ICE," Thompson said. "It's 107 in Phoenix today. How long am I going to stand on the side of the road with someone (awaiting an ICE response)? It's a matter of minutes -- 20 minutes maybe, 30 minutes maybe."

"Just for my agency, it will be a huge workload, just making the calls and waiting for a response on what to do," the police chief of Arizona's second-largest city said.

"I'm not sure the federal government is capable of handling all the requests that they will be receiving," Villaseñor added. "I don't know what effect it will have on my agency."

Tuesday marked the first 24 hours that state and local law agencies began enforcing the state immigration law since Monday's court ruling, and law agencies were either engaged in training or rolling out the mandatory immigration checks, said Amy Rezzonico, a spokeswoman for Arizona attorney general's office.

"I'm pretty sure it will be business as usual to some degree," Rezzonico said.
.....
Concerns by lawmen such as Villaseñor unfolded as President Barack Obama and Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer squared off about the impact of Monday's U.S. Supreme Court ruling that upheld the "show-me-your-papers" provision -- but struck down other portions of the state law intended to deter illegal immigration.

Already, the Obama administration has indicated it won't allow Arizona's immigration priorities to become federal priorities. The administration has ended the so-called 287(g) agreements with Arizona, under which state and local law agencies entered into a partnership with the Department of Homeland Security and were delegated authority for immigration enforcement within their jurisdictions.

"If you read the statute carefully, it literally creates an obligation for all law enforcement agencies to determine status of individuals," said Marc Miller, a vice dean and law professor at the University of Arizona. "By making it a mandate and lining it up against the warnings of the Supreme Court, it's created an impossibly difficult question for police and sheriffs. Are we concerned about racial profiling? Absolutely."

But how police will apply the law -- requiring immigration checks while enforcing other laws if "reasonable suspicion" of illegal immigration exists -- is "confusing," CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin said.

"What does it look like in the real world to have reasonable suspicion that someone is here illegally? What is a police officer supposed to do?" Toobin asked. "How to apply that in the real world is kind of mysterious to me."

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said he opposed SB 1070 because if the entire law had been upheld by the federal courts, it would have resulted in overcrowded jails and overburdened state courts.

"The more important thing is how the chief of a law enforcement agency chooses to enforce the law," Dupnik said. For example, other counties do immigration sweeps, but not his, he said.

"Law enforcement did not ask for this law," Dupnik said. "Law enforcement did not need this law."

Santa Cruz County Sheriff Tony Estrada said "Our concern is the public perception of what we are doing," he said. He fears Latinos won't ask for help and witnesses won't come forward, he said.

"The Hispanics will look at us a little differently, and that concerns me," Estrada said.

Merchants and residents of the Latino community reported anxiety and fear among clientele and neighbors.

Phoenix taqueria owner Hector Manrique said Tuesday that business has been dropping since the law was proposed in 2010; he predicted it will get worse now that the Supreme Court has ruled.

"It's bad for the Hispanic community," said Manrique, a native of Mexico who has been in Phoenix since 1990 and has run the Taqueria Guadalajara since 2003.

"It seemed like everybody kind of forgot about it for a little bit and now, all of a sudden, I've got friends who were talking to me yesterday, and they're pretty scared because they've got kids, they've got family to support."

Kelly Ramirez, 31, of Tucson, a real estate broker and business owner, said many Latino immigrants don't know the details of the law, but they do know something has changed.

"They can't really look into it, so what they'll do is they'll hide," she said. "There's going to be less conversation, less help from individuals that maybe aren't doing anything wrong but know of somebody that is." http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/26/us/arizona-immigration/index.html?hpt=hp
_t2
, I didn't realize the Supremes left standing the thing where law enforcement could be SUED if someone thinks they're not enforcing 1070 "enough". That's bad news; essentially they're screwed if they do and screwed if they don't.

I also never realized they have to check with ICE every time they pull someone over for a traffic stop or ANYTHING. That's insane! I'm not sure why I didn't realize this; they can't very well give a ticket, take the person's name, then check with ICE when they get a chance, OR arrest someone for a small violation like a busted tail light just to check their status, but the idea of a cop standing in 107-degree Arizona heat so they can call ICE and wait for a response strikes me as crazy. I think Thompson'll find it's not going to be that 20-30 minutes he expects it to be.

My heart goes out to Arizona law enforcement. Think they're going to have a hard time with this. Go Jan Brewer (not!).


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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Double post.

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:17 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Romney, who insists we DON'T need more cops, firefighters, or teachers, seems to think we DO need more border patrol agents - apparently to stop that flood of Asians coming in from Mexico!




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The ADA reg is incomprehensible asinine and unrealistic. EVERY pool feature, in EVERY public area, is suppose to have an anchored, in ground pool lift for the handicapped? That is so unbelievably expensive, and will result in many pools being filled in. THERE'S your ' equality ' outcome. Everyone gets screwed, because of a few bureaucratic do-gooders think the world isn't a freaking fair place !

GOD I fucking hate intrusive govt!



Yes the regulations are unrealistic, that is why they are not going into effect, and the DOJ is backing off them. Don't get you shorts in a bunch.




They're not going to worry about regulation, but they're more than happy to let folks know that it's perfectly fine to SUE such businesses for not adhering to the code. Don't you GET that ? Seems not. This admin is handing the trial lawyers a windfall and a license to go after any and all non compliant businesses.

Election year politics, anyone ?

Q: Where do most of the trial lawyers political donations go towards ?


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


GOD I fucking hate intrusive govt!






Except when you want it intruding into a woman's choice, of course. Or when you want it intruding into another country's airspace, or invading and occupying them. Then you LOVE intrusive government!



A woman's choice ? What of the choice of the child ? There's a reason why LIFE was put first,in the line - Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness .




" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 1:58 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
They're not going to worry about regulation, but they're more than happy to let folks know that it's perfectly fine to SUE such businesses for not adhering to the code. Don't you GET that ? Seems not. This admin is handing the trial lawyers a windfall and a license to go after any and all non compliant businesses.



The regulations is not in effect, so a person cannot sue based on that regulation. Nothing has ever stopped law suits based simple on language in the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Not to mention an lawyer would have to be working on behalf of an injured client to collect any damages. Lawyers cannot simple go around and sue businesses for not complying with regulation and collect money for the hell of it.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 2:01 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
A woman's choice ? What of the choice of the child ? There's a reason why LIFE was put first,in the line - Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness .



What child? Not to be coy, but it is called a fetus until it is born. There are reasons for that.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, June 29, 2012 1:16 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


GOD I fucking hate intrusive govt!






Except when you want it intruding into a woman's choice, of course. Or when you want it intruding into another country's airspace, or invading and occupying them. Then you LOVE intrusive government!



A woman's choice ? What of the choice of the child ? There's a reason why LIFE was put first,in the line - Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness .





A fetus has no say in the matter, and no rights. A fetus is not a citizen.

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