REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Al Qaeda says, "Buy American guns!"

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 03:19
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1244
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Friday, April 12, 2013 6:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The media paid little, if any, attention to it when it came out, but hey ho, apparently people who don't want background checks agree with Al Qaeda, America's a GREAT place to buy guns!


Quote:

A video from 2011 has resurfaced showing American-born al Qaeda spokesman Adam Gadahn discussing how easy it is to buy guns in the United States and urging fellow radicals to do so.

In the video, the California-raised Gadahn said militants should arm themselves for attacks on Western governments.

"America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms," said Gadahn, "You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?" More at http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/11/politics/al-qaeda-video/?hpt=po_c2



Buy American!

(In fairness, he was wrong on one thing: It is illegal under federal law to a fully automatic weapon from anyone but a specially-licensed dealer, and additional permission is required as is a background check. Are they legal? Yes. Are they as easily obtainable as Gadahn suggests? No. But every OTHER kind of gun is, and semi-auto is easily made auto with a kit from a gun show, so he's not really wrong.)

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Friday, April 12, 2013 2:05 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What? Nothing but {{{crickets}}} from the right?


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Saturday, April 13, 2013 4:20 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


And since the names of all American jihadists are on the NICS list, background checks would prevent them from buying firearms. Right?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, April 13, 2013 6:10 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


The NRA has fought to make sure that anyone on the Terror Watch List can still by all the guns they want.


There's a reason I refer to the right-wing gun-nut teabaggers as the Teabilly Taliban, you know. They really aren't any different from al Qaeda and the Taliban, except for their chosen prophet.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Sunday, April 14, 2013 6:55 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The NRA has fought to make sure that anyone on the Terror Watch List can still by all the guns they want.



I'd be interested in a cite for this claim.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, April 14, 2013 7:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'm impressed by Geezer's trust; "the names of all American jihadists are on the NICS list". I'm sure glad someone's got the names of ALL American jihadists on a list; I'm glad they KNOW who ALL the American jihadists out there are, and I'm glad there are background checks at gun shows and in private transactions...whew! I feel much safer. I'm sure they know who all the jihadist's friends are, too, so they couldn't buy a guy for them...

Oh, you're saying that's not true? Omigawd, I feel MUCH less safe...I'd better go out and buy a GUN!


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Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The NRA has fought to make sure that anyone on the Terror Watch List can still by all the guns they want.



I'd be interested in a cite for this claim.




Do you have a favorite source you'd like me to cite, or do you leave it to my discretion?





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


How about a smorgasboard of cites from left, right, and middle?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/28/fbi-247-people-terro-watch-
list-bought-guns-2010
/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/05/AR2010
050505211_2.html?sid=ST2010050503674


http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/the-daily-need/on-terrorist-watch
-list-but-allowed-to-buy-guns/8927
/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/people-terror-watch-list-buy-
guns-legally-united-states-fbi-reports-article-1.115647


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/03/06/terror-gap-gun-
sales-lautenberg-bill/1969213
/

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/03/lautenberg-terrorists-guns

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/nra-terrorists-guns.php









"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, April 15, 2013 2:26 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I'm impressed by Geezer's trust; "the names of all American jihadists are on the NICS list". I'm sure glad someone's got the names of ALL American jihadists on a list; I'm glad they KNOW who ALL the American jihadists out there are, and I'm glad there are background checks at gun shows and in private transactions...whew! I feel much safer. I'm sure they know who all the jihadist's friends are, too, so they couldn't buy a guy for them...

Oh, you're saying that's not true? Omigawd, I feel MUCH less safe...I'd better go out and buy a GUN!




Ahh, Niki.

Thanks for making my point that a background check, even a universal one, is of limited use if folks either aren't on the list, or are able to get straw purchasers to buy for them.

Not to mention the states that still don't send data on folks subject to involuntary commitments and court-ordered evaluations.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, April 15, 2013 2:33 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
How about a smorgasboard of cites from left, right, and middle?



Okay. So you want folks who have been put on the list without due process, have the same name as someone else on the list, or just got put on the list accidentally using whatever mysterious and undisclosed method DHS uses, and who have no recourse about getting an erroneous listing removed, to forfiet their rights. Seems about right.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, April 15, 2013 3:14 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
How about a smorgasboard of cites from left, right, and middle?



Okay. So you want folks who have been put on the list without due process, have the same name as someone else on the list, or just got put on the list accidentally using whatever mysterious and undisclosed method DHS uses, and who have no recourse about getting an erroneous listing removed, to forfiet their rights. Seems about right.





Quote: "Now where did I say that?"





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 15, 2013 6:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thanx, Mike. As usual, our black-and-white-mentality folk miss the point completely. Geezer actually GETS IT, sort of, and still misses the point: "a background check, even a universal one, is of limited use"...yup, just as seat belts are of limited use. But they ARE of use, which brings us back to the original point, that of finding ways to at LEAST MINIMIZE it being so easy for the wrong people to get their hands on guns. Since the power of the NRA keeps us from gathering scientific data about guns, we can't know how much use background checks at gun shows would be. The one single thing we DO know: Gun shows as they are today are a free-for-all where anyone can buy virtually anything.

Here's some reality for 'ya:
Quote:

I knew all about Arizona’s so-called “gun show loophole” that some law enforcement officers say puts guns in the hands of Mexican cartels and L.A. gangsters. But until you are actually offered the opportunity to buy an AR-15 with only a cash exchange and a handshake, it still seems unbelievable.

I went to the gun show with my research assistant, David Robles, as part of my reporting for an upcoming article for Phoenix Magazine. For the first couple hours, David and I just took it all in. I think he thought I had lost my edge: I was struck dumb by the sheer amount of weaponry. There were defused grenades for $25 that the seller explained could be reactivated by people with the right skills. (“But that’s on them,” he said.) There were tables with antique knives with Nazi symbols and others lined by 50 caliber rifles that I’ve been told could take down a lightly-militarized vehicle from a mile away.

But I was here for the assault rifles – specifically the AK-47s and AR-15s that are the weapons of choice among the drug cartels. If I purchased from a licensed dealer at the gunshow, I would have had to fill out a form to make sure I wasn’t a felon before I bought one, or four, or a dozen assault rifles. Still, there were plenty of opportunities to get around that minor inconvenience. The first private seller I approached about buying a couple assault rifles asked me for my driver’s license to make sure I wasn’t an illegal immigrant and informed me I didn’t look like the typical AR-15 buyer. (Of course, I’m not; I had a notebook in my hand.) At the second private table, the seller assured me before I even asked anything at all that I could buy all nine of his semi-automatic weapons without any paperwork required, though he also would check my I.D. By then, though, a young man with an AR-15 for sale (he was moving out of state and needed the cash) had approached me: all I needed was the money. http://crawfordondrugs.com/2010/07/inside-the-phoenix-gunshow/]
Quote:

Asked who could buy his Uzi semi-automatic weapon with a bundle of 30-round magazines, Norm replied, "Anyone who has $2,000."

In Nevada, it's perfectly legal for one private resident to sell firearms to another resident, no questions asked. Still, private sellers are supposed to ask for proof of residency, and no one from California is allowed to directly purchase any gun the Golden State classifies as an illegal assault weapon - such as Norm's Uzi with the high-capacity magazines.

Yet law enforcement officials say that loophole is exploited every weekend, when sellers - motivated by the chance for quick cash - turn a blind eye to the buyer's home state.

In an attempt to gauge how frequently private sellers checked for identification at the Las Vegas Gun Show, a Chronicle reporter approached five sellers to ask about buying a tactical rifle such as an AR-15.

Of the five, one asked to see proof of Nevada residency before the sales discussion progressed, while four never asked. They were informed they were talking to a reporter only after the terms of the sale were agreed upon and the cash was requested.

A seller named Joe agreed to sell a POF-brand AR-15-style assault weapon, including grenade launcher, for $3,500. Joe, who said he was originally from Ocean Beach in San Diego, pressured his California client to act fast.

"These are banned in your state, but they're going to get banned everywhere soon," he said. "You can buy it for an investment."

One private seller, Ron Delia of Las Vegas, quickly begged off the transaction after he was told his potential buyer was from California. "I can't help you there, pal. If you were from Nevada you could walk out the door with it. Sorry."

At Saturday's show, a teenager named Jacob walked the aisles with an AR-15 slung over his shoulder and a "For Sale" sign pinned to his chest. For $1,800, Jacob said, the deal would include magazines of 20 and 30 rounds.

Jacob turned the final stage of the transaction over to his father, Doug, who declined to give his last name.

Told that his would-be buyer lived in California and the weapon was illegal there, Doug said it didn't matter.

"As far as I'm concerned," Doug said. "I'm selling you a DVD player."More at http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Gun-show-loophole-visible-in-Las-
Vegas-4208818.php


Yeah, any Al Qaeda operative would have had a helluva time buying an assault weapon at a gun show. You betcha...

Brenda, Magons, KPO and AgentRouka, aren't you glad you don't live in America in this respect?


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Tuesday, April 16, 2013 2:04 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


He asked for cites, I provided several, so he completely disregards them all and instead tries to tell me what I "want" by assigning an opinion or position to me.


Seems a bit disingenuous to me, but then again, this *IS* Geezer we're talking about.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 16, 2013 3:19 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
How about a smorgasboard of cites from left, right, and middle?



Okay. So you want folks who have been put on the list without due process, have the same name as someone else on the list, or just got put on the list accidentally using whatever mysterious and undisclosed method DHS uses, and who have no recourse about getting an erroneous listing removed, to forfiet their rights. Seems about right.





Quote: "Now where did I say that?"



"The NRA has fought to make sure that anyone on the Terror Watch List can still by all the guns they want.


There's a reason I refer to the right-wing gun-nut teabaggers as the Teabilly Taliban, you know. They really aren't any different from al Qaeda and the Taliban, except for their chosen prophet."

Unless of course you're supporting the NRA in their opposition to using the Terror Watch List, with it's rampant errors and violation of privacy rights.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/06/AR2007
090601386.html


http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/07/nation/na-fbi7


http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/dhss-new-terrorist-database-ra
nkles-privacy-groups





"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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