Make laws to suppress it and they will just have more of it, duh... by Wishimay

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Make laws to suppress it and they will just have more of it, duh...

POSTED BY: WISHIMAY
UPDATED: Friday, October 18, 2013 19:26
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 971
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Thursday, October 17, 2013 5:28 PM

And then you won't be able to kill off the diseases they spread because NO ONE gets treated for something they aren't supposed to be doing anyways..

So then THIS happens...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2464403/New-virulent-strain-
HIV-spreading-rapidly-Russia-claim-scientists.html

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:47 PM

BYTEMITE

Umm

Is... Are you saying that gay sex is the primary cause of increased HIV rates?

Instead of, you know, the rampant crime, drug dealing, needle use, bad hospital practices, and poor education system?

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Thursday, October 17, 2013 10:15 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Umm

Is... Are you saying that gay sex is the primary cause of increased HIV rates?

Instead of, you know, the rampant crime, drug dealing, needle use, bad hospital practices, and poor education system?

Despite the Russian government's anti-gay stance, don't really see gay sex as being the problem, per the article. Looks like mostly needle sharing and unprotected sex with unknown partners. Unfortunately, folks who don't know what they're putting into their bodies, or what they're putting their bodies into, are gonna be risking STDs.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, October 18, 2013 7:18 AM

WISHIMAY

So y'all actually believe an article written BY people in Russia that deny that gay sex is the problem? Did you people pay ANY attention during the 90's? Cause I gotta say, when I worked at the Casino here we had several lifelong gays die of Aids, not so much with the gen pop. No, it's not the only way, but gay sex will get you there quicker.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 9:03 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
So y'all actually believe an article written BY people in Russia that deny that gay sex is the problem? Did you people pay ANY attention during the 90's? Cause I gotta say, when I worked at the Casino here we had several lifelong gays die of Aids, not so much with the gen pop. No, it's not the only way, but gay sex will get you there quicker.

HIV may have been mostly a gay thing in the 90's, but it's jumped to the hetero world by now. Any unprotected sex with someone you don't know is healthy can result in catching it, just like any other STD.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, October 18, 2013 11:32 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
So y'all actually believe an article written BY people in Russia that deny that gay sex is the problem? Did you people pay ANY attention during the 90's? Cause I gotta say, when I worked at the Casino here we had several lifelong gays die of Aids, not so much with the gen pop. No, it's not the only way, but gay sex will get you there quicker.

So, supposed to question an article for what's NOT written there based on nationality. Anecdotal evidence is also superior to any other kind of information.

/logic

If you like anecdotes, here's one. My mom had a blood transfer in the 1980s shortly after I was born because she had to have a brain tumor removed, and she had an HIV scare. I reacted the way I did because what you said was both incredibly inaccurate and also kinda perjorative towards gay people. You dishonor the memory of the people you knew who died by blaming their lifestyle.

Anal sex can increase your risk because of the tearing that can happen, but, tearing can happen in regular sex too. Transmission can also occur through to cunnilingus and fellatio. Really any unprotected sex and unfamiliar partners can increase the risk and so can bad medical practices and sharing unsterilized needles (as in drugs).

Gosh, what other problems can we understand completely by attributing terrifying diseases entirely to stigmatized minority groups? Maybe gay people are also WITCHES.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 1:17 PM

WISHIMAY

You take everything way too personally. But then I'm used to that by now.

I'm saying it's a bit like here, the people who scream the loudest against homosexuality are usually the ones hiding it (Do I NEED to go find that list of republicans caught in gay scandals at a rate of 4 to 1 of democrats??). And since those areas have been screaming against it the loudest lately...

The one thing I know is how little humanity changes pretty much anywhere you go.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/20/hiv-continues-to-spread-among-ga
y-men-studies-show/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57478571-10391704/hiv-infection
-rates-among-black-gay-men-50-higher-than-that-of-white-counterparts-study-finds/

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_higher_percentage_have_aids_in_US_st
raight_or_homosexual#slide1

How many more you need?

Rates have risen in straight populations, but I firmly believe by what I have seen and read that gay men just get Aids/HIV MORE. I dishonor NO ONE by stating the truth.
I have no personal feelings of ill will to anyone gay, but I won't pretend for them either....

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Friday, October 18, 2013 1:20 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

HIV may have been mostly a gay thing in the 90's, but it's jumped to the hetero world by now.

We're talking Fucked-up-istans here. Not exactly the progressive social meccas of the world...
maybe they are just now hitting their 1985....

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Friday, October 18, 2013 2:57 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
You take everything way too personally. But then I'm used to that by now.

I'm saying it's a bit like here, the people who scream the loudest against homosexuality are usually the ones hiding it (Do I NEED to go find that list of republicans caught in gay scandals at a rate of 4 to 1 of democrats??). And since those areas have been screaming against it the loudest lately...

The one thing I know is how little humanity changes pretty much anywhere you go.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/20/hiv-continues-to-spread-among-ga
y-men-studies-show/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57478571-10391704/hiv-infection
-rates-among-black-gay-men-50-higher-than-that-of-white-counterparts-study-finds/

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_higher_percentage_have_aids_in_US_st
raight_or_homosexual#slide1

How many more you need?

Rates have risen in straight populations, but I firmly believe by what I have seen and read that gay men just get Aids/HIV MORE. I dishonor NO ONE by stating the truth.
I have no personal feelings of ill will to anyone gay, but I won't pretend for them either....

There is a huge difference between saying that gay people have higher rates (which I even conceded) and blaming the problems of an entire nation on gay people getting around a law.

And seriously, what the fuck? You won't "pretend" for them? Because they're all, what, AIDS ridden horror fests or inevitably will be? Well, you're very lucky. No one ASKED you to.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 3:56 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

There is a huge difference between saying that gay people have higher rates (which I even conceded) and blaming the problems of an entire nation on gay people getting around a law.

And seriously, what the fuck? You won't "pretend" for them? Because they're all, what, AIDS ridden horror fests or inevitably will be? Well, you're very lucky. No one ASKED you to.

Holy crap Byte, touchy much?
"problems of an entire nation??" What problems? The only allusion I made was that if you outlaw something it makes people do it MORE...
And 'zactly where DID I say "Aids ridden horror fest"?? 'Cause I don't remember saying anything of the sort. Believe I said "gays have higher rates and I'm not gonna pretend they don't."

What's up with the inflationary bits? Usually you're a bit more logical than this?

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Friday, October 18, 2013 4:15 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
The only allusion I made was that if you outlaw something it makes people do it MORE...

And that then implies you think that gay people are on their own the cause of Russia's rise in AIDs. SERIOUSLY?

Quote:
"gays have higher rates and I'm not gonna pretend they don't."

No one is pretending otherwise! The problem is you saying Russia has high AIDs rates OVERALL because of gays!

And then you even said that the ARTICLE you POSTED is WRONG because it says that OMIGAWD IT'S NOT THE GAYS because crime and drug use are CRAZY in Russia and the former soviet republics! You said that they're lying because RUSSIANS wrote it! As if Russia is known for sugarcoating things for gay people!

And you expect any of us to buy that you don't have a problem with gay people? You brought gay people into an issue that only peripherally involves them just to blame them and ONLY them for the spread of a horrible disease.

Quote:
Usually you're a bit more logical than this?

You call ME illogical when everything you've said in this thread has been a logical fallacy.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 6:42 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

No one is pretending otherwise! The problem is you saying Russia has high AIDs rates OVERALL because of gays

No, I'm saying that because they ignore that there ARE gays that the problem is only going to get worse (i.e. NEW BAD STRAINS) , because people aren't going to want to get treated because, like here, people will suspect them of being gay.

You act like because I even bring up the connection between gay people and Aids, I'm a gay hater which makes no sense AT ALL. I'm trying to say gay people get HIV/AIDS WHEN THEY HIDE THEY ARE GAY TO BEGIN WITH...which is because is is illegal, which is a dumb thing to do...

I'm done. Once again you aren't getting half of the inferences to even get this conversation without getting all hyper about it.

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Friday, October 18, 2013 7:26 PM

BYTEMITE

Mutations in viruses will happen even if people are getting treatment for it. A mutation in the HIV virus has nothing to do with gay people spreading the virus and not seeking treatment. A mutation is a matter of time and statistics.

It is frankly questionable that you tried to tie gay issues and rates of transmission among gay people into a conversation about a virus mutation.

Quote:
like here, people will suspect them of being gay.

That's a hell of an assumption, and you're still giving off the vibe that *YOU* would suspect people with AIDs as being gay. Your attitude and things you've said have also not helped my impression.

If you are truly concerned that people with AIDs might feel stigmatized and not seek treatment, which is admittedly a thing that happens, then focusing on JUST one thing with a peripheral relationship to the issue with itself a lot of stigma, and speaking so CRITICALLY about that one thing only serves to REINFORCE that stigma.

In short, I comprehend your inferences perfectly. They just offend the SHIT out of me.

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