REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

America: A Modern Imperialist

POSTED BY: MAGONSDAUGHTER
UPDATED: Sunday, November 10, 2013 22:47
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Saturday, November 9, 2013 12:59 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Okay, so I'll stop the hijack of what should have been a fun thread, and start a proper on topic one.

Here is is and not about me.

Quote:

Whether it is Shanghai, London or even the Museum of Communism in Prague, wherever you go, you will see familiar golden arches and red-and-white logos printed everywhere in the city. By the way McDonald's and Coca-Cola have touched various cultures worldwide, you may begin to question how these American multinational corporations were able to extend their reach to such lengths. Their influence is so rooted in global society that the McDonalds' golden arches are one of the most identifiable symbols, like the Christian cross.

The truth is that widespread American culture is threatening cultural diversity. And while some nations resist the temptation of American wealth, these corporations manage to pry their way through those barriers anyway. One protester's words at the Guangzhou demonstration in 1999 against the American bombing of Belgrade are very telling of the foreign perception of American imperialism: "I'd rather die of thirst than drink Coca-Cola. I'd rather starve to death than eat McDonald's." Yet despite harsh rejections, through serpentine persuasion, America has managed to stuff foreign mouths with a multitude of hamburgers and soda to achieve what can only be called cultural hegemony. As these corporations continue to gain customers and influence, they slowly progress on the path to world domination.

However, foreign consumers are not always known to passively absorb the American culture that bombards their daily lives. The "Slow Movement" is said to have began in 1986, advocating a cultural shift to slow down life's pace and celebrate the most basic needs to live comfortably. And in turn, it rejects the infusion of American culture into foreign nations. Part of the movement, the Slow Food organization, began in Piazza Di Spagna, Rome, almost 30 years ago. Reluctant to accept American fast food culture, Carlo Petrini protested the opening of the first McDonald's restaurant in Italy. His protest gave voice to the sentiments of many people throughout the world, and spread as far as Australia and Japan. According to the Washington Post article "What's Slow Food Anyway?" there are now approximately 83,000 members from 131 countries worldwide that support this movement.

Nevertheless, since then, McDonald's has opened nearly 20 stores in Piazza Di Spagna alone. So why is it that these corporations can so blatantly disregard the will of the populace? The reason lies mainly with the vast influence of the American image. The media: TV, Internet, news, etc., spits out images of American superiority in politics, economics and military virtually 24/7. Foreign nations that are assailed with these images are led to believe in the American façade of democracy, extravagant wealth and incomparable military power. Thus, they are pressured to accept American commercialism lest they go against this American "power."

The most egocentric part of the whole debacle is that the supporters of Americanization believe that this will bring order to the global economic experience, even though it is obvious that foreign consumers reject impeding American influence, as seen with the Guangzhou demonstration. We feel obligated as "superiors" to "keep things in order." However, these serve only as pretty words to cover up American imperialistic intentions.

In her essay, "Cultural Imperialism: An American Tradition," Julia Galeota asks if the possibility of a world without conflict is worth sacrificing countless indigenous cultures. The possibility of the world economy being joined under a unified front (with America at its head) sounds appealing because unity could signify less conflict. But unity would also undoubtedly devastate cultural identity. The way America has influenced foreign countries so far worries me, because a future without cultural identity is a daunting prospect. Historically, too many things have been sacrificed to keep distinct cultures alive. And for America to take away this privilege by replacing indigenous culture with "superior" American culture is egoistic and wrong. To avoid further demoralization of American principles, I hope that proponents of American cultural imperialism will realize this fatal flaw.

Even as the world continues to become interconnected, it is crucial to realize that through cultural imperialism, foreign consumers have perceived American multinational corporations as invasive pests rather than assistance. To make up for the damage done, it is time for America to rethink strategies for international relations, and realize equal, mutual partnerships with foreign correspondents.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/misa-mori/america-a-modern-imperial_b_15
60446.html

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 4:45 AM

FREMDFIRMA



I say they should push back, throw a little weight behind educating everyone about the "cool" parts of their own cultures and play on folks curiosity and especially the american interest in food (often much to their peril!).

I used to like to watch people in major cities, many of whom chose to stick with the clothing styles of their country of origin, all interacting, but these days due to our goddamn police state attitude it's likely to get you accused of something, which has discouraged the practice much to my ire.

That and I know it's a teensy tiny thing, but apparently a lot of wingnut assholes seem to really hate Dora the Explorer, a show I happen to like and reccommend cause it teaches children the value of knowing more than one language and encourages them to think, question and explore instead of "sit down, shut up and OBEY!".... it gets up my back soooo bad, that does.

I even have a name for them assholes who think our mostly-stolen mishmash "culture" is so goddamn superior to everyone and everything else and are complete dicks about expressing it... "Murricans".
(Which is itself amusing cause "maricón" in spanish means something close to "pansy")

I did have to point out to a dumbass friend of a friend that if you're going to dine at a restaurant in a highly saturated cultural area (like, say, a very honestly authentic mexican restaurant in Nogalez, AZ) and you bring a pack of loudmouth obnoxious Murricans with you who are making racist comments, getting food poisoning out of the deal is the LEAST of your worries....

One thing I wish the UK would bring us is some decent Fish N Chips, back in my misspent youth there was a place called Arthur Treacher's which had about as close as you could come to real Fish N Chips here in the states, but they've gone through many owners and there's not many of them left except in Ohio these days - My Ex has not quite ever forgiven me for that wheel-spinning handbraked bootlegger slide U-turn I pulled in the middle of the street at like 40mph upon spotting one... but in my defense I hadn't seen one for near twenty YEARS at that point.
Sorry folks, Red Lobster and Long John Silvers just don't cut it.

As for y'all Aussies, send us some sausage rolls, hell, send us some Weetabix... keep the Vegemite though, that stuffs bloody AWFUL!


-Frem

ETA: PS, dunno if booze counts as "cuisine" but I tore one HELL of a strip off an Outback Steakhouse for having adverts up for VB and 4X, and not actually HAVING any of either, grrrr.

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 8:54 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Nevertheless, since then, McDonald's has opened nearly 20 stores in Piazza Di Spagna alone. So why is it that these corporations can so blatantly disregard the will of the populace?



There wouldn't be 20 McDucks in Piazza Di Spagna if the populace weren't buying enough burgers and fries to keep them open.

MyTravelGuide lists 440 restaurants near the Piazza Di Spagna, so it's not as if they're suffering for choice.

http://www.mytravelguide.com/restaurants/near-78396005-Italy_Rome_Piaz
za_di_Spagna_restaurants.html



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 1:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's not American imperialism, it's corporate imperialism. And insofar as the USA has embraced corporatism and imposed it on the rest of the world (militarily when necessary) it has American logos. However, if the Chinese should follow the USA's lead (looks like they have every intention of doing so), be prepared to see Blue Sun everywhere, and fruity oaty bars.

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 1:39 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Amen Sig.

However, I disagree with "There wouldn't be 20 McDucks in Piazza Di Spagna if the populace weren't buying enough burgers and fries to keep them open." That's simplistic at the very least. The money and power being multi-nationals, the special advantages they're given because they have the money and power to influence politics, make that almost a joke. They can advertise in ways others can't; they get tax breaks others don't; being multi-national, they can move their money around in ways others can't; they have the money to pay for marketing schemes the populace isn't even AWARE OF; they can undercut local businesses financially; and on and on and on.

A statement like that is as simplistic and disingenuous as any of the stupid things Rap spouts. In a level playing field, it might have some semblance of truth, but the playing field is FAR from level, and it is least level of all when it comes to America. Multi-national corporations and governments are hand in glove, and their agendas have little to do with the best interests of their citizens; nobody here is that naïve, only those who pretend to be by making simplistic remarks like that.

And I don't mean you necessarily, Geezer; maybe you actually believe that, tho' I find it hard to imagine. It is the kind of superfluous statement that Rap/zit/etc. make in response to a complex issue, and they DAMNED well know better, unless they are so incredibly ignorant that all they do is swallow the statement themselves and regurgitate it without using a single brain cell. Actually, reading that last sentence back...





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Sunday, November 10, 2013 8:44 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
However, I disagree with "There wouldn't be 20 McDucks in Piazza Di Spagna if the populace weren't buying enough burgers and fries to keep them open." That's simplistic at the very least. The money and power being multi-nationals, the special advantages they're given because they have the money and power to influence politics, make that almost a joke. They can advertise in ways others can't; they get tax breaks others don't; being multi-national, they can move their money around in ways others can't; they have the money to pay for marketing schemes the populace isn't even AWARE OF; they can undercut local businesses financially; and on and on and on.



Anything to back this up? Specifically concerning the Piazza Di Spagna? Or is it just more "Oh evil coroprations. They MUST be doing something wrong to sell their burgers and panini."?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


No, I'm not going to play that game. I could find tons and tons on the many ways multi-nationals have many "legs up" on average business owners and the general population, and anyone who goes against them, but you know it perfectly well and I doubt it would do any good anyway, given you persistent bias.

Foreign-owned multinational companies control 70% of world trade. There are many ways they do it, and we've discussed some of it from time to time. It only takes a few minutes to find lots of information, if you really were interested.

When it comes to MacDonalds, with its $24 billion in revenue, it is the 90th largest economy in the world. If you don't think that gives it enough power and money to elbow its way in just about anywhere it wants, you're truly being disingenuous. For one thing, you have to look pretty hard for any BAD news about MacDonalds and the games they play, because they've saturated even the internet with propaganda; I've done it before, so I'm not willing to spend the time doing it again to answer a question to which you already know the answer.

Yeah, G; if you spend a little time Googling, you'll find TONS of good stuff about MacDonalds, and pretty much only that. Same with multinationals, tho' less so. You have to look a lot harder to find the games and how they and other multinationals do what they do. I invite anyone to spend the time on it...you will most likely come away pretty surprised just how long it takes and how you have to work to find it, but it's there. It was a shock to me the first time I tried to find a story on a specific issue I KNEW was taking place, and that's when I realized just how much they know about how to skew information and blanket even the internet so that the facts can be pretty hard to find. It's pretty impressive, but I'm not willing to go through it again.

One of the cute things they did is with their "Monopoly" game...you get so many hits on that, that Googling for "MacDonalds Monopoly" overwhelms you...and "MacDonalds Corruption" brings tons of stories about corruption in their Monopoly game...see how it works?

This will all, of course, be dismissed in the most visceral "conspiracy nut" terms, I know. I don't care; I went through it all a long time ago and eventually dug out what I needed, and it taught me not to try again unless there was something really vital at stake. Trying to convince the unconvincable here isn't vital enough for me.


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Sunday, November 10, 2013 12:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I can't believe than anyone needs proof that Walmart has a leg up on the mom-and-pop store, or that McDonald's has an advantage over Bob's Burgers, or that Chase can determine the banking environment.

Seriously???

I'm asking seriously.

Do you WANT a multi-post dissertation on how large corporations can take advantage of economies of scale and access to government officials? Really?

Or will (your own) straightforward observation and common sense, untainted by ideology, take over?

Just let me know.

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 2:55 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
No, I'm not going to play that game.



Couldn't find anything, eh?

As noted above, McDucks has 20 restaurants in the Piazza De Spagna area out of 440 listed on one travel site. That's somewhat less than 0.5%. This is an imperialist takeover? Not doing too good a job.

And as G noted, the Italian McDucks are altering their menus to meet the demands of the Italians. I would guess that they do so in other countries to meet local tastes. Damn those clever multi-nationals.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:20 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I can't believe than anyone needs proof that Walmart has a leg up on the mom-and-pop store, or that McDonald's has an advantage over Bob's Burgers, or that Chase can determine the banking environment.

Seriously???

I'm asking seriously.

Do you WANT a multi-post dissertation on how large corporations can take advantage of economies of scale and access to government officials? Really?

Or will (your own) straightforward observation and common sense, untainted by ideology, take over?

Just let me know.



C'mon, you know that under a free market, everyone is equal and it's all just about individual choice, right? I mean, why go bringing power issues into it?

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 5:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yeah, because the whole notion of imbalances of power in our so-called "free" market economic is a blot in propertarian libertarianism. We're all equal in that we can all own property; it's just that some of us are more equal than other.

Right, Geezer?

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 6:28 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yeah, because the whole notion of imbalances of power in our so-called "free" market economic is a blot in propertarian libertarianism. We're all equal in that we can all own property; it's just that some of us are more equal than other.

Right, Geezer?




Well money rules, right? I mean if something is economically successful, it means its inherently good. Including drug cartels/sex slavery/child pornography. I mean people providing and buying goods is the bottom line in the wonderful world of the totally free market.

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 6:30 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Interesting read Magon. But not exactly new information by any stretch of the imagination. The US has always been that way eversince "Manifest Destiny" was first coined. My ancestors were the first ones to be run over by it. Then in the 70s it was the "Melting Pot".

Too many cultures have been destroyed from Imperialism. And in these modern times more countries should stand up to these huge coperations like McDonald's forinstance and say no and keep saying it until they get the message.

Europe hasn't been America's only target. They try bullying Canada too.

Sorry for going off on a tangent.



No, I didn't think it was news either, but surprisingly it appears to be.

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:31 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"Couldn't find anything, eh?" No, I was quite clear. I went through all that, a number of years ago on another issue involving McDonalds, and I "learned my lesson", if you will. The lesson was that it's damned hard to ferret out actual information, and I'm not willing to put the time and energy into it again just to prove a point, especially since it would mean absolutely nothing to you anyway.

It was a rude come-uppance when I did it, I was naïve enough to think you could find information on the internet fairly easily if you wanted to and had no idea how well even the internet is now manipulated. It taught me to look at several sources of any story, check the sources of stuff I read, to try and read between the lines, to follow links to links to links, and more, all of which I still do to a degree. But to go through all that again just to ferret out some "proof" you and those like you will dismiss out of hand anyway? No, I'm not that stupid. I did it then for a serious PURPOSE; FFF is far from important enough to bother.

For you to claim that MacDonalds is so pervasive globally just 'cuz everyone likes their food is a blatant enough statement to the intelligent people here, I don't need to bust my ass to prove anything.

Brenda, Magons; you guys know it's not news to the majority of us here, and hasn't been for a long, long time.


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Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:36 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yeah, because the whole notion of imbalances of power in our so-called "free" market economic is a blot in propertarian libertarianism. We're all equal in that we can all own property; it's just that some of us are more equal than other.

Right, Geezer?



Considering the number of places around here that I can get a burger - both national chains and local places - I'd say it works pretty well. Maybe where you live Taco Bell won the fast food wars and you can't eat anywhere else, but everywhere else in the country I've been, local restaurants (if they serve good food and have good management) stay in business.

Madame and I generally go on, say, 10,000 miles of road trips a year, and have a rule to never eat at national chains (except Five Guys, since we used to eat at their first store when it was the only one) and can always find good local food at a reasonable price (as well as high end). So, as far as I can see, the Big Food Monopoly scenario fails.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:47 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
For you to claim that MacDonalds is so pervasive globally just 'cuz everyone likes their food is a blatant enough statement to the intelligent people here, I don't need to bust my ass to prove anything.



Never said "everyone" likes their food. If they only have 0.5% of the restaurants in the Piazza Di Spagna area, apparently lots of other people around there like food other than theirs. They get their market share, and Luigi's Trattoria (or whatever any of the other 420 restaurants that aren't McDucks are called) gets their's.

If you can show any evidence that McDucks stays in business worldwide when people aren't buying their product, bring it.

Are they more efficient than some restaurants? Can they get raw materials for less since they buy a lot? Do they have more to spend on advertising? Probably. But in the end, if they don't sell product, they won't be in business.




"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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