Do campaigns of nonviolent resistance work? by second

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Do campaigns of nonviolent resistance work?

POSTED BY: SECOND
UPDATED: Thursday, February 15, 2018 16:37
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Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:02 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Do campaigns of nonviolent resistance work? Many people believe that Gandhi and King just got lucky: Their movements tugged at the heartstrings of enlightened democracies at opportune moments, but everywhere else, oppressed people need violence to get out from under a dictator’s boot. The political scientists Erica Chenoweth and Maria J. Stephan assembled a data set of political-resistance movements across the world between 1900 and 2006 and discovered that three-quarters of the nonviolent resistance movements succeeded, compared with only a third of the violent ones. Gandhi and King were right, but without data, you would never know it.
www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/libya/2014-06-16/drop-your-weapons
www.belfercenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/files/IS3301_pp007-044
_Stephan_Chenoweth.pdf
https://peacenews.info/node/6874/erica-chenoweth-maria-j-stephan-why-c
ivil-resistance-works-strategic-logic-nonviolent-conf

Though the urge to join a violent insurgent or terrorist group may owe more to male bonding than to just-war theory, most of the combatants probably believe that if they want to bring about a better world, they have no choice but to kill people. Would anything change if everyone knew that violent strategies were not just immoral but ineffectual? It’s not that I think we should airdrop crates of Chenoweth and Stephan’s book into conflict zones. But leaders of radical groups are often highly educated, and even the cannon fodder often have had some college and absorb the conventional wisdom about the need for revolutionary violence. What would happen over the long run if a standard college curriculum devoted less attention to the writings of Karl Marx and Frantz Fanon and more to quantitative analyses of political violence?

http://bit.ly/2BvwVHh

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:49 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...

It really depends on so many things. The Middle East is a perfect example of how Violence completely doesn't work - it even creates a kind of viral violent response. I'm for change through non violence - always. If a Society can't use Reason to work out their Future, then they don't deserve It.

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I read a study that said something opposite. Or maybe sideways. What it said was that "movements" ... like the women's movement, or the environmental movement, or the anti-war movement of the 60s, or the civil rights movement ... succeed IN PART because the movements have a radical wing which "normalizes" the less-violent changes demanded by the greater number.

More later, but just kinda busy right now.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

The OP seems to be a complete 180 to Second inciting violence among the 99% just yesterday, and calling them stupid because they don't fight.

Guess that was bad timing to go with that narrative while there was an active shooting going on in the news, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:15 AM

THGRRI

Mahatma Gondi, Martin Luther King

T

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:03 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
The OP seems to be a complete 180 to Second inciting violence among the 99% just yesterday, and calling them stupid because they don't fight.

Guess that was bad timing to go with that narrative while there was an active shooting going on in the news, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

The deal is, 6ixStringJack, you and many more exactly like you in America won't "fight", meaning you won't struggle against adversity. You're waiting for a hero, a Trump, to rescue you from the mess you live. But nobody is coming to help, not unless you convince them to help. The emphasis is on "you convince", because these helpers will not suddenly decide out-of-nowhere and for no-reason-but-the-goodness-of-their-hearts to help you and your kind. The convincing is done with nonviolent resistance.

As is said in one of those links that 6ixStringJack and others similar to him are too fucking lazy to click, and because of that laziness won't receive anybody's help: From 2000 to 2006 organized civilian populations successfully employed nonviolent methods including boycotts, strikes, protests, and organized noncooperation to challenge entrenched power and exact political concessions.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:12 AM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
The OP seems to be a complete 180 to Second inciting violence among the 99% just yesterday, and calling them stupid because they don't fight.

Guess that was bad timing to go with that narrative while there was an active shooting going on in the news, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)
The deal is, 6ixStringJack, you and many more exactly like you in America won't "fight", meaning you won't struggle against adversity. You're waiting for a hero, a Trump, to rescue you from the mess you live. But nobody is coming to help, not unless you convince them to help. The emphasis is on "you convince", because these helpers will not suddenly decide out-of-nowhere and for no-reason-but-the-goodness-of-their-hearts to help you and your kind. The convincing is done with nonviolent resistance.

And there you have it second. Jack is a fatalist. Government can't help. Our legal system can't help. The media along with our legal system and government are working together to suppress us all. All is lost.

He has shut the door on every institution. There is nowhere he can turn to get the truth, because he believes all are lying all the time. So he latches onto videos posted by others like rappy and sig. YouTube videos of guys in there basements with opinions and nothing more.

There is no where he can turn to get a grip on what is real and what is not. No where he can turn to garner hope.

On a personal note, I resist those like jack. More importantly, trolls like sig, kiki, jsf, rappy and jt to name a few.

T

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:37 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

And there you have it second. Jack is a fatalist. Government can't help. Our legal system can't help. The media along with our legal system and government are working together to suppress us all. All is lost.

He has shut the door on every institution. There is nowhere he can turn to get the truth, because he believes all are lying all the time. So he latches onto videos posted by others like rappy and sig. YouTube videos of guys in there basements with opinions and nothing more.

There is no where he can turn to get a grip on what is real and what is not. No where he can turn to garner hope.

On a personal note, I resist those like jack. More importantly, trolls like sig, kiki, jsf, rappy and jt to name a few.

I checked the numbers: major nonviolent campaigns have achieved success 53 percent of the time, compared with 26 percent for violent resistance campaigns. And what is the success rate for the methods used by sig, kiki, jsf, etc.? Let me check: Yes, it is zero percent. Success rate for 6ixStringJack's bitter passivity? OMG. It is less than zero.

www.belfercenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/files/IS3301_pp007-044
_Stephan_Chenoweth.pdf

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
And what is the success rate for the methods used by sig, kiki, jsf, etc.?- SECOND

And what "methods" are THOSE, comrade troll? You don't even know what they are, but you claim they don't work? How disingenuous can you be?

Oh, that's right: Completely disingenuous. Please, don't let truth get in the way of your posts, then. Just carry on with lying.

Better yet: Get away from the computer, step out of your basement and go do something physical, something useful. You'll feel a whole lot better.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:21 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

And there you have it second. Jack is a fatalist. Government can't help. Our legal system can't help. The media along with our legal system and government are working together to suppress us all. All is lost.

He has shut the door on every institution. There is nowhere he can turn to get the truth, because he believes all are lying all the time. So he latches onto videos posted by others like rappy and sig. YouTube videos of guys in there basements with opinions and nothing more.

There is no where he can turn to get a grip on what is real and what is not. No where he can turn to garner hope.

On a personal note, I resist those like jack. More importantly, trolls like sig, kiki, jsf, rappy and jt to name a few.
I checked the numbers: major nonviolent campaigns have achieved success 53 percent of the time, compared with 26 percent for violent resistance campaigns. And what is the success rate for the methods used by sig, kiki, jsf, etc.? Let me check: Yes, it is zero percent. Success rate for 6ixStringJack's bitter passivity? OMG. It is less than zero.

www.belfercenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/files/IS3301_pp007-044
_Stephan_Chenoweth.pdf

Beautiful post second. Just perfect...and it smacks in the face the crap those mentioned post here daily. It sums up beautifully what they are about. It also shows what they can hope to achieve by posting lies and bullshit; nothing.

Perfect second, just perfect.

T

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The OP seems to be a complete 180 to Second inciting violence among the 99% just yesterday, and calling them stupid because they don't fight. - SIX

Thanks, I was thinking the same thing. How does this call for nonviolence square with

Quote:
That is direct experience. Why do you think the 1% can bully the other 99%? It certainly is not because the 1% are belligerent. It is because the 99% won't fight back. Instead, they get drunk, or wished they had a nuke to drop on their enemy, or voted in a secret ballot for a champion (Trump as the example) who will fight for them. None of those methods are as reliable as getting yourself into the fight for what you want. And I do mean fight, not wish and not passively hope. That is for chickens.- SECOND

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62210&p=3

I think SECOND is vastly confused.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I think SECOND is vastly confused.

No doubt. I don't think his echo chamber is doing him any favors either.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, to be fair, there's nothing wrong with being confused, as long as you KNOW that you're confused, because then you'll seek to untangle the source of your confusion. It's the person who's 100% certain about everything who never learns.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:16 PM

THGRRI

And in her own way, sig takes jack to school. Will he never learn...

T

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:19 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
And what is the success rate for the methods used by sig, kiki, jsf, etc.?- SECOND
And what "methods" are THOSE, comrade troll? You don't even know what they are, but you claim they don't work? How disingenuous can you be?

Oh, that's right: Completely disingenuous. Please, don't let truth get in the way of your posts, then. Just carry on with lying.

Better yet: Get away from the computer, step out of your basement and go do something physical, something useful. You'll feel a whole lot better.

Don't high-road me about your superior understanding, Signym. Your method is to endlessly fucking talk as if you are a professor in charge of graduate school seminar. There are no grades given out at the end of the semester, Professor Signym. Nobody but that moron 6ixStringJack has ever been persuaded by you.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:22 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

Don't high-road me about your superior understanding, Signym. Your method is to endlessly fucking talk as if you are a professor in charge of graduate school seminar. There are no grades given out at the end of the semester, Professor Signym. Nobody but that moron 6ixStringJack has ever been persuaded by you.

And as he always does, second takes sig to school. You gotta love it.

T

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

lol...

You know second is completely off tilt when for days he's been dropping F Bombs.

I don't think he likes that I've shattered the fake little world where he is a big shot with a lot of money.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 4:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Don't high-road me about your superior understanding, Signym. Your method is to endlessly fucking talk as if you are a professor in charge of graduate school seminar. - SECOND

THIS, from the person who endlessly splatters the board with secondhand drivel?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, February 15, 2018 4:37 PM

THGRRI

Quacks, we're dealing with quacks. I guess I'll have to add that to the list of what's wrong with a few here.

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